Spyderco MSRP Increase for 2021?

[Menipo]

I really appreciate all of your meaningful and intelligent opinions and we always take them seriously.

There is some additional information I'd like to share. Comparison between Japan and China is not apples and apples.

When Japan began its rise economically, the Yen was 350 to the dollar ( 3.5 / 1 ). It was exceptional value for the cost, in knives as well as automobiles. That's when we began working with our Japanese maker. We were selling Endura's and Delica's at shows for $30 and $25 ( 1981). As the economy grew, the Yen got stronger and as a member of the Global economy, Japan was trying to be a fair member. The Yen got stronger and stronger and now it is, as it should be, pretty equal to the US dollar.

As China began its rise economically, the Yuan was very low and the quality was poor. Factory workers worked in poor conditions and the Government subsidized manufacturing. Now China is a modern country. They build skyscrapers, they've gone into space and they have a large army and weapons of mass destruction, but the Yuan is still 6 / 1 to the dollar. That' why it is such a "good value". The Chinese Government is reluctant to adjust their money to the Global market and they are taking over the world (intentionally) in manufacturing. They have brought the world to its knees with Covid, and they also make all of our drugs, because it's cheaper and our company leaders often put profit above all else.

I don't want to get political, but some have expressed some opinion on this and I wanted to bring everyone up to date on Geo-Politics. Just some thoughts to share.

sal

Thanks, Sal.

It seems easy for many to equate the economic rise of Japan and China as the same or similar, because both are East Asian countries (easy for some to lump together), but they are VERY different.

Taiwan and Mainland China are also very different.

Jim

Sal, Jim,

I am one of those who used the two names (China and Japan) in the same post, so I will try to make myself better understood.

At no time have I tried to compare China and Japan, either from the point of view of economic organization, economic evolution or economic behavior. I am perfectly aware of the differences that separate them in these (and in almost all) fields. To think that they are the same because they are both countries in East Asia would be equivalent to saying that the US and Mexico are similar because they are both on the American continent (and even so close that they share a border).

If I used the example of the "conquest" of the American automobile market by the Japanese, it was simply to illustrate that to disguise political considerations behind quality arguments, does not hold in the long term when what is foreign clearly becomes of equal or better quality than goods produced locally (and it is cheaper). And that brings us directly to the matter of the price (the "good value").

I couldn't agree more with you that the Chinese government does not play fair with its currency (to put it in the kindest way I can think of).

But, on the one hand, I am convinced that the exchange rate (artificial or intervened) does not explain everything. Production costs in China are lower due to many factors (wages are lower, environmental compliance expenses are practically non-existent, etc.). But this should be examined very carefully because if we talk about labor costs, for instance, those of companies in many European countries are higher than those of American companies because they incorporate a very high parafiscal component (contributions to Social Security). So those European companies are in a worse competitive situation if compared with American companies (as regards labor costs). The issue of the cost structure in each country / market, which depends on economic factors but much also on social and political factors, is tremendously complicated.

On the other hand, if Chinese products are sold in Western markets at the prices at which they are sold, it is because Western governments do not use corrective mechanisms to avoid fraudulent commercial conducts, at the WTO level or unilaterally/bilaterally (when it is possible). Why don't they do it? Perhaps because certain trade-offs, which cannot be explained in isolation, make sense from a global prospective (and we do not see the whole picture).

I love sharing opinions and knowing yours. By doing this kind of reflections I think we do not get political. We simply get "economical".

[Blnd]

I really appreciate all of your meaningful and intelligent opinions and we always take them seriously.

There is some additional information I'd like to share. Comparison between Japan and China is not apples and apples.

When Japan began its rise economically, the Yen was 350 to the dollar ( 3.5 / 1 ). It was exceptional value for the cost, in knives as well as automobiles. That's when we began working with our Japanese maker. We were selling Endura's and Delica's at shows for $30 and $25 ( 1981). As the economy grew, the Yen got stronger and as a member of the Global economy, Japan was trying to be a fair member. The Yen got stronger and stronger and now it is, as it should be, pretty equal to the US dollar.

As China began its rise economically, the Yuan was very low and the quality was poor. Factory workers worked in poor conditions and the Government subsidized manufacturing. Now China is a modern country. They build skyscrapers, they've gone into space and they have a large army and weapons of mass destruction, but the Yuan is still 6 / 1 to the dollar. That' why it is such a "good value". The Chinese Government is reluctant to adjust their money to the Global market and they are taking over the world (intentionally) in manufacturing. They have brought the world to its knees with Covid, and they also make all of our drugs, because it's cheaper and our company leaders often put profit above all else.

I don't want to get political, but some have expressed some opinion on this and I wanted to bring everyone up to date on Geo-Politics. Just some thoughts to share.

sal

Thanks, Sal.

It seems easy for many to equate the economic rise of Japan and China as the same or similar, because both are East Asian countries (easy for some to lump together), but they are VERY different.

Taiwan and Mainland China are also very different.

Jim

Sal, Jim,

I am one of those who used the two names (China and Japan) in the same post, so I will try to make myself better understood.

At no time have I tried to compare China and Japan, either from the point of view of economic organization, economic evolution or economic behavior. I am perfectly aware of the differences that separate them in these (and in almost all) fields. To think that they are the same because they are both countries in East Asia would be equivalent to saying that the US and Mexico are similar because they are both on the American continent (and even so close that they share a border).

If I used the example of the "conquest" of the American automobile market by the Japanese, it was simply to illustrate that to disguise political considerations behind quality arguments, does not hold in the long term when what is foreign clearly becomes of equal or better quality than goods produced locally (and it is cheaper). And that brings us directly to the matter of the price (the "good value").

I couldn't agree more with you that the Chinese government does not play fair with its currency (to put it in the kindest way I can think of).

But, on the one hand, I am convinced that the exchange rate (artificial or intervened) does not explain everything. Production costs in China are lower due to many factors (wages are lower, environmental compliance expenses are practically non-existent, etc.). But this should be examined very carefully because if we talk about labor costs, for instance, those of companies in many European countries are higher than those of American companies because they incorporate a very high parafiscal component (contributions to Social Security). So those European companies are in a worse competitive situation if compared with American companies (as regards labor costs). The issue of the cost structure in each country / market, which depends on economic factors but much also on social and political factors, is tremendously complicated.

On the other hand, if Chinese products are sold in Western markets at the prices at which they are sold, it is because Western governments do not use corrective mechanisms to avoid fraudulent commercial conducts, at the WTO level or unilaterally/bilaterally (when it is possible). Why don't they do it? Perhaps because certain trade-offs, which cannot be explained in isolation, make sense from a global prospective (and we do not see the whole picture).

I love sharing opinions and knowing yours. By doing this kind of reflections I think we do not get political. We simply get "economical".

...And yet you jumped pretty quickly to the conclusion that quality arguments were the reasoning behind the opinions you referred to.

I prefer not to get too involved in this discussion, but let’s not pretend that consumer decisions are not made for an infinite number of reasons and to make haphazard assumptions on those decisions (posted on an anonymous forum no less) is quite foolhardy and presumptuous - PARTICULARLY when we are talking about what is essentially a luxury item.

[nerdlock]

...And yet you jumped pretty quickly to the conclusion that quality arguments were the reasoning behind the opinions you referred to.

I prefer not to get too involved in this discussion, but let’s not pretend that consumer decisions are not made for an infinite number of reasons and to make haphazard assumptions on those decisions (posted on an anonymous forum no less) is quite foolhardy and presumptuous - PARTICULARLY when we are talking about what is essentially a luxury item.

I think you are having a different idea of what defines a luxury good or item.

Luxury goods are defined as unecessary for life, or work/job functionality, as well as acquisition of such said luxury good is directly equated/exponentially proportional to the increase of consumer income.

Yet we have military, law enforcers, medical and emergency services, rescue (count me in as one of them) and fire fighting all over the world counting on Spyderco knives for their jobs. And we have people who are mostly from the middle class who are the most ardent buyers of Spyderco knives.

I do not presume to know what was on Sal's mind when he and his wife first started the company way back, but it is my opinion that it was not to immediately sell knives as luxury items.

Granted there are knives in the Spyderco inventory that I would not hesitate to call luxury (Paysan, Drunken, etc.) but the knives that are in question here with regards to the price increases are the standard everyman Spyderco offerings, like the Seki knives and the Paramilitary series.

[The Meat man]

Bottom line here is Spyderco's doing what they need to keep the business going. Sal & Kristi have both said that they do their best to hold prices down even if it sometimes means lower margins on certain models. They've also stated they're a transparent company and try to do business in a fair and proper manner. What more can you ask for? Nobody likes price increases but they're a fact of life. We can all complain all we want. But if Spyderco can't make what they need to keep the business going then there might be other consequences that we don't like even more

After following 10 pages of interesting discussion and commentary, I think this post really says it all.

I don't know all the business information that led Spyderco to raise the prices on various models as they did, but I have every confidence that it was based on good business sense, not avarice. I'll gladly give Spyderco the benefit of the doubt. No doubt the past year has brought a lot of unexpected business problems and expenses which will need to be recouped eventually.

Furthermore, I'm glad Sal doesn't allow the bottom line to dictate every business decision. I'd rather the prices go up a bit than have Spyderco become simply another company willing to sell its ethics and values for another dollar.

I'm not going to pretend that I like spending more money - earlier in this thread, I said that I'd probably buy less knives now - but I think I can stretch things a bit in order to support my favorite knife company. Especially after all the support and enjoyment I've gotten from the Spyderco community here. The active presence of Sal alone is surely worth the extra $10. :D

[Blnd]

Edit: never mind- I’m not going to bother.

[sal]

Hi Nerdlock,

Thanx for your service.

Conner,

Thanx much for the trust and demonstration that profit isn't everything, or even first.

Hey BLlnd.

All opinions are worthy of discussion. It's a discussion, not a debate, and we all learn.

sal

[TSINGA]

I have some Spyderco's listed on eBay and am taking advantage of the 2021 price increase to make my slightly used knives more desirable!

I bought a UKPK in December before the ~6% increase, so I'm set for the year, or at least I think I am. One of my New Year's resolutions is to not to buy any more knives or guns. I wonder how long that'll last?