Military 2 Discussion (Merged)

[Evil D]

The thing I'm most excited for is no cut out in the scales for the liner lock. This will make it more comfortable for me.

Ha, I was thinking the exact opposite, I can live with the cutout on the grip area but I don't like the cutout on the spine, it's a hot spot during hard extended use. There's always a compromise for somebody somewhere lol.

[Wartstein]

The thing I'm most excited for is no cut out in the scales for the liner lock. This will make it more comfortable for me.

Ha, I was thinking the exact opposite, I can live with the cutout on the grip area but I don't like the cutout on the spine, it's a hot spot during hard extended use. There's always a compromise for somebody somewhere lol.

I am 100% in your camp: Linerlock over comp.lock (cutout) for "hard", prolongued use any day of the week.

For me it goes so far that I think larger work knives like Shaman and Caribbean should switch from comp. - to linerlock (not only for the ergos though, but also for the - for me - added safety and convenience of a linerlock over a comp.lock in "outdoor use") - actually I´d most likely own at lest one of those models if they came with a linerlock.

But as I´ve said several times already: 100% subjective of course. Depending on handsize, hand"geometry", how one uses and/or grips a knife and so on...

[Bloke]

Big Congrats, Spyderco!

[Wartstein]

warstein:

My point is when the Para 1 > 2 transition happened, everyone seemed to welcome the changes. One way clip to four way. Improved choil. Re-designed ergonomics in general. Longer blade.

Those same changes are being made to the Military now. Something I've asked for as far back as 2011-2012.

There's been a pretty big crowd here lamenting this Military 2. I can understand, I was sad to see the Pacific Salt 1 recently go.

But I think every change being made will make the Military a better knife in the long run.

Four way clip makes it more comfortable for people to carry.

The deeper choil will give a more secure & comfortable grip. I know this from experience, having compared the Para 1 & 2 head to head. The para 2 style choil is miles better IMO.

The compression lock isn't a big deal to me vs a liner lock, but the big advantage I see is improved ergos via no longer needing a cut-out for the liner lock.

I've gone as far as to make cardboard mock-ups of a Military handle without that cut out and for me it makes a big difference.

With my grip my thumb is always forward of the comp lock scale cut-out, and my palm never digs into it during hard cuts. I'm sure hand size variances and how you grip your knife can make this an issue for others though.

All in all I'm excited about having a factory tip up Military with improved ergonomics. Where I live I never really need gloves, but I can operate a compression lock just fine with them on if need be.

I'm pretty confident that a lot of people that aren't sure about the Military 2 will change their minds once they handle it. This is the exact knife I pictured as my EDC the day I bought a Para 2 ~10 years ago.

Certainly good an valid points!

Still I think (quote) "But I think every change being made will make the Military a better knife in the long run" is really subjective.

Also, the changes from Millie 1 to Millie 2 are not "the same" as from Para 2 to PM2 as far as I can see:

- The Millie 2 does not get a longer blade and not more cutting edge
- The Millie 2 does not get a longer handle either (which would, differently to the PM2, be a con for me anyway. The Millie 1 handle is long enough already)
- If the choil-change is an improvement is also debatable: I for example clearly prefer the Millie choil over the PM 2 style choil,
- And: The Millie 2 DOES get a different lock type, which changes a lot: Ergos, safety, convenience in use and operation. In all those aspects just CHANGES and not improvements or disimprovements in the first place. For me personally though a linerlock is better in all those aspects, for the next one it is the comp.lock.
- Tip up carry option though is great indeed!! But if one chooses to still carry the Millie 2 tip down: The 9 additional holes in the handle make no difference at all function - and ergo wise (one could argue that the tip up left hand option leaves three not covered holes in the pivot area. I don´t think that this matters in any way though).

But, as said: The Millie 2 is certainly a great knife, does not "ruin" anything at all and I am glad for you and many others that such a knife will be available more or less soon!
Also, should "the market" prefer the Millie 2: Of course Spyderco should and will focus on that model!!

I think for me it is mostly about the next step towards pushing the linerlock into the more "budget" Spyderco models. Adds fuel to the - for me - "inferior, outdated" linerlock myth, and will lead to even less new-to-quality-Spydies-folks giving that lock type a fair try and evaluation (as said: Especially the "fingers (not) out of the blade path" hype is a bit beyond me. Concerning "fingers not get hit by the cutting edge" a good linerlock on a knife with choil is as safe as it can get imo).

[Sting]

Epic! Is the blade the same length as the OG military?

[Wartstein]

The thing I'm most excited for is no cut out in the scales for the liner lock. This will make it more comfortable for me.

Ha, I was thinking the exact opposite, I can live with the cutout on the grip area but I don't like the cutout on the spine, it's a hot spot during hard extended use. There's always a compromise for somebody somewhere lol.

(Not a reply to your post, David, just generally):

- I just wanted to point out that for some/many the kind of locktype might not be important at all ergo- or functionwise, and that is perfectly fine and valid of course!
- I think we all have aspects on knives that are more important than others: While for me liner- vs comp.lock really makes a difference, on the other hand I would not care for example if the Pac Salt changed from LC200N to VG10 or even XHP - an area where the type of steel for many others DOES make a whole world of difference! Same can be true for handle materials, blade shapes, and so on..

[Wartstein]

Now I want a Military 2 with a liner lock.

Though, honestly, this might actually be the perfect - est option for not too few...

[ZrowsN1s]

Congratulations on the win Spyderco

I see one of the inevitable sprints/exclusives of this in my future.

[Brock O Lee]

Interesting evolution!

I have a soft spot for the linerlock Military, precisely because it does not have the compression lock cutout. For me it is much more comfortable than any of the compression lock knives when making hard cuts using a hammer grip. I am also in the minority who likes the tip-down clip.

Regardless, variety is the spice of life, I still like the PM2 a whole lot, and I would love to try a Military 2 (or PM2 XL) in an interesting steel... *Cough* Magnacut *Cough*

[Wartstein]

Interesting evolution!

I have a soft spot for the linerlock Military, precisely because it does not have the compression lock cutout. For me it is much more comfortable than any of the compression lock knives when making hard cuts using a hammer grip.

Regardless, variety is the spice of life, and I would like to try a Military 2 in an interesting steel... *Cough* Magnacut *Cough*

There are at least three threads going right now where the Millie 2 gets discussed, so I don´t know exactly who said what where and when anymore...

But it would be interesting to see what percentage feels like you, David (Evil D), me: Linerlock cutout makes for better ergos, comp.lock cutout can create a hotspot in "hard cuts using a hammer grip" -
and what percentage feels like Vivi (definitely a more than experienced real knife user) and certainly many others just the other way round: Linerlock cutout makes for worse ergos, I guess less "meat" / handle thickness under the fingers.
(and what percentage does not feel any relevant difference of course)

No clue what the results would look like!

But I don´t know if starting an actual poll would make much sense - and anyway only , if really just people would vote who actually extensively tried both locks in "hard" use on rather similar handles...

[Wartstein]

Long time Millie user here. If access to the comp lock works with rigging gloves on I’ll entertain buying one. If it comes serrated I’ll definitely buy one!

While all those folk calling for deeper carry and tip up have had their wish’s granted, i think they’ll literally need some **** deep pockets.

J

Ps… I still carry a pm1

Deeper carry would definitely be a step in the wrong direction for me personally!! But actually, if achieved with a deep carry clip, no problem cause with the new design it could be swapped to a "regular" clip easily

[Mr Blonde]

One other aspect many people liked about the Military when it first came out, is how lightweight and flat it was for its size. At the time, it was a surprise for many how easy it was to carry such a large folder. I'm curious to see how this aspect features in the Military 2. So far, I only see improvements - I wish we could've gotten a lefty clip option and a more lefty-friendly lock back in '99!

[Ramonade]

One other aspect many people liked about the Military when it first came out, is how lightweight and flat it was for its size. At the time, it was a surprise for many how easy it was to carry such a large folder. I'm curious to see how this aspect features in the Military 2. So far, I only see improvements - I wish we could've gotten a lefty clip option and a more lefty-friendly lock back in '99!

99 would have been early for me to own a Military, since I was 4 !
But I find myself in your comment about the lightweight aspect of the Military, first time I picked it up I almost took it in my face, thinking it'd weight at least 3 times its actual weight

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As for gloves, I think the cutout is not like on the PM2, the knife is bigger, so the cutout is bigger... We'll have plenty of time to test once the knife in available

[JSumm]

One other aspect many people liked about the Military when it first came out, is how lightweight and flat it was for its size. At the time, it was a surprise for many how easy it was to carry such a large folder. I'm curious to see how this aspect features in the Military 2. So far, I only see improvements - I wish we could've gotten a lefty clip option and a more lefty-friendly lock back in '99!

99 would have been early for me to own a Military, since I was 4 !
But I find myself in your comment about the lightweight aspect of the Military, first time I picked it up I almost took it in my face, thinking it'd weight at least 3 times its actual weight

I picked up a Military for the first time at Blade Show. I was also shocked at how light it was. I was not aware there was no liners. Hopefully the 2 has kept that feature.

[Ramonade]

I picked up a Military for the first time at Blade Show. I was also shocked at how light it was. I was not aware there was no liners. Hopefully the 2 has kept that feature.

Well, there is a liner on each side but a partial one, and the show side really has little to no liner !
Btw, your invitation didn't fall in the ears of a deaf man, I'm looking at making a passport for next year (even if the Spyderco seconds sale is something I'd be more interested in than the Blade Show!!!)

[Wartstein]

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As for gloves, I think the cutout is not like on the PM2, the knife is bigger, so the cutout is bigger... We'll have plenty of time to test once the knife in available

This is what I thought I´d notice too... would be great and eliminate one of the cons the Millie 2 for me has compared to the "1" !

[Igi964]

For me the linerlock on Military used to be a hotspot. In tight grip it dig inside my finger joint. And the very corner of the liner next to the blade was very sharp to. Never had that kind of problem with comp lock as a hotspot. On several Spydercos. What I dont like about the Mili 2 is the slim “neck” around choil and broad pommel at the end of the handle. Looks unbalaced to me. I prefer the oposite on knife handle. Like Manix 2 or Yojimbo 2. More material to grip behind the choil and thiner handle on the end. Just my 2 cents.

[ladybug93]

- Of course the Millie 2 has not "ruined" the platform, tbh I think it would be a bit silly to say that - it looks like a great knife, for some a bit better, for some a bit "worse" than the great Millie "1"

- Are the differences to the Millie "1" just "marginally"? This is at least debatable: Different choil, different lock - if this is just "marginally" one could also almost say a Stretch or even Manix is basically the same knife as a PM2.

i shaved down your quote for brevity. in another thread, someone said they ruined the choil. i too thought that was ridiculous, which is why i said what i did. it's certainly not ruined. the knife is barely different.

as for knife being only marginally different, you might disagree, but it is. i think it's silly to say that comparing a military 1 to a military 2 would be like comparing a manix to a pm2. the military 1 and 2 are the same knife with a few minor differences. the only difference in shape is the choil. it still has the same blade. the only other difference is where the lock cutout is and a few extra holes for moving the clip. surely you don't really think this is as different as a pm2 and a manix. that's laughable. they're the same knife and other than the lock change, the changes are basically equivalent to cqi changes.

[wrdwrght]

Side by side screenshots from a Knifecenter video on Instagram - https://instagram.com/knifecenter?igshid=YmMyMTA2M2Y=

Military Model on left - Military 2 on right



https://www.instagram.com/reel/CecCSj1g ... MyMTA2M2Y=

Whoa! The cutting edge’s shape on the 2 is actually different.

I prefer the outward-from-the-kick flattishness of the original. Lost is the momentary mechanical advantage of a wharnie. Why that change, I wonder.

What with all the other changes, this one is least likable to me.

The Military Model’s increasing loss of distinction makes it more unappealing to me than I first thought.

However, if I look at it as a PM2 XL, my concerns melt away. Odd.

[ladybug93]

i could be wrong, but that kind of variation could easily just be inconsistent grinding or the fact that the military 1 may have been sharpened by its owner a few times.