Spyderco Forums

CasperFatone wrote: ↑

Sat Mar 30, 2024 6:50 pm

I have a good amount of experience making knife scales using a trim router/mini table setup, and have a few pieces of advice for you. You are correct that making small parts is inherently dangerous, so you really need to be careful and use extreme caution when doing this. I have been a cabinetmaker by profession for over 20 years now, and I know that you cannot get complacent when doing this type of work or it will bite you!

My first piece of advice is to get yourself good quality top bearing router bits. For cutting the profile of the scales I use a solid carbide compression style bit, which means that it spirals up and down cuts simultaneously. This does two key things, it reduces tear out and it is less prone to grabbing the work piece.

My second piece of advice is to not try to take too heavy of a cut in one pass. This will result in tear out and the bit grabbing as well. With a profiling cut this means you want to trim your workpiece relatively close to size on a bandsaw, and with a chamfer cut you want to do an initial pass with the bit lower than your final pass.

My third piece of advice is to use a starter pin/fulcrum pin. This is so incredibly helpful when starting your cut and when managing difficult spots like when you cut around the tail end of a scale. Keep in mind that you always want to feed your piece against the direction of the cutter, and the pin will make it so much easier to start and stop your cuts.

I do all of my scales using top bearing bits in the mini table setup with a starter pin. You need to use either a template or something to act as a template. For a Mule I will often tape the blade and use the actual knife as the template. You just want to drill for your hardware first, then trim off the extra material on the bandsaw, then do my router work. I will try to come up with a more detailed tutorial with pictures for you if I can find a little time in the next few days.

I think this might still be less dangerous that what I'm doing now. I'm putting end mill bits in my drill press to get the grippy surface finish they provide on micarta. It puts lateral pressure on my tool and will eventually kill it. I even tried to cut some time in sanding by hand to make my scales flush by buying this bit :



The whole chuck assembly fell off once and it almost ended badly ! I need to build/buy that router table and invest in a mini mill. Thanks a lot for your feedback, I know how many hours I'll save, it was mostly a question of "is it doable" . I've even seen some table with pretty good safety around the bit so that you can throw yourself on it. In many situation it would have to be removed but it's nice to know it's possible :

FullScaler wrote: ↑

Sat Mar 30, 2024 10:44 pm

Man, those Micarta scales look good @Ramonade Clean lines there.


I've been making so many wooden scales recently I wanted to try something different. These are aluminum honeycomb filled with dyed resin.

I think these are my new favorite scales. The way the aluminum honeycomb reflects the light in different angles is hard to catch in a picture but looks incredible irl.

Looks like I need to step back to about 600 or 320 grit in a few spots since I can still see lots of scratches in the pictures that I can't really see in my hand but I think it will be worth it to really dial these ones in.

I've got some red ones like this on the cnc now and will be trying some green after that. It's a slow process with these but I'm pretty happy so far.

20240330_213422.jpg

20240330_213439.jpg

20240330_213452.jpg

20240330_213526.jpg

Really nice ! Honeycomb/resin scales can sometime look weird IMHO but these ones are fire ! I love the pattern you do on woods too, a CNC is truely a formidable tool once you start being able to do more intricate things with it

Ramonade wrote: ↑

Sun Mar 31, 2024 2:07 pm

CasperFatone wrote: ↑

Sat Mar 30, 2024 6:50 pm

I have a good amount of experience making knife scales using a trim router/mini table setup, and have a few pieces of advice for you. You are correct that making small parts is inherently dangerous, so you really need to be careful and use extreme caution when doing this. I have been a cabinetmaker by profession for over 20 years now, and I know that you cannot get complacent when doing this type of work or it will bite you!

My first piece of advice is to get yourself good quality top bearing router bits. For cutting the profile of the scales I use a solid carbide compression style bit, which means that it spirals up and down cuts simultaneously. This does two key things, it reduces tear out and it is less prone to grabbing the work piece.

My second piece of advice is to not try to take too heavy of a cut in one pass. This will result in tear out and the bit grabbing as well. With a profiling cut this means you want to trim your workpiece relatively close to size on a bandsaw, and with a chamfer cut you want to do an initial pass with the bit lower than your final pass.

My third piece of advice is to use a starter pin/fulcrum pin. This is so incredibly helpful when starting your cut and when managing difficult spots like when you cut around the tail end of a scale. Keep in mind that you always want to feed your piece against the direction of the cutter, and the pin will make it so much easier to start and stop your cuts.

I do all of my scales using top bearing bits in the mini table setup with a starter pin. You need to use either a template or something to act as a template. For a Mule I will often tape the blade and use the actual knife as the template. You just want to drill for your hardware first, then trim off the extra material on the bandsaw, then do my router work. I will try to come up with a more detailed tutorial with pictures for you if I can find a little time in the next few days.

I think this might still be less dangerous that what I'm doing now. I'm putting end mill bits in my drill press to get the grippy surface finish they provide on micarta. It puts lateral pressure on my tool and will eventually kill it. I even tried to cut some time in sanding by hand to make my scales flush by buying this bit :



The whole chuck assembly fell off once and it almost ended badly ! I need to build/buy that router table and invest in a mini mill. Thanks a lot for your feedback, I know how many hours I'll save, it was mostly a question of "is it doable" . I've even seen some table with pretty good safety around the bit so that you can throw yourself on it. In many situation it would have to be removed but it's nice to know it's possible :

That bit is exactly like the one that I use. You’ll be amazed at how quickly you can trim a set of scales to be perfectly flush. I will often leave the front of the scales long and then cut them after the flush trimming because it’s a spot that is prone to chipping out. See the spot by my thumb in this picture. Really I should have left even more material on this set, but I did this all in a bit of a rush just to get some pics


You’ll want to cut a spacer to place between the scale and the tang, which keeps you from hitting the tang with your bit. The spacer needs to be slightly undersized in relation to the tang since you don’t want the bearing riding on the spacer. I use 1/8” Masonite, but any thin stock will do. My recommendation would be to not go thicker than 1/4” with the spacer to keep things well aligned.

For beveling you want to get a small chamfering bit with a bearing. This time you’ll use the two scales pinned together with a spacer between them. Here is a video of me doing the initial pass on the bevels-



Here are a couple of pics of the beveled scales after a second pass


I took those pics immediately after routing, before doing any sanding. I should have used thicker stock for these, but like I said they were really just done quickly to get some pictures. It just so happened I had some 1/8” thick pieces of Bloodwood sitting around so that’s what I used.

Let me know if you have any questions, either now or when you get setup with a router :)

Thanks for the tutorial, Casper!

CasperFatone wrote: ↑

Fri Apr 05, 2024 8:18 am

Ramonade wrote: ↑

Sun Mar 31, 2024 2:07 pm

CasperFatone wrote: ↑

Sat Mar 30, 2024 6:50 pm

I have a good amount of experience making knife scales using a trim router/mini table setup, and have a few pieces of advice for you. You are correct that making small parts is inherently dangerous, so you really need to be careful and use extreme caution when doing this. I have been a cabinetmaker by profession for over 20 years now, and I know that you cannot get complacent when doing this type of work or it will bite you!

My first piece of advice is to get yourself good quality top bearing router bits. For cutting the profile of the scales I use a solid carbide compression style bit, which means that it spirals up and down cuts simultaneously. This does two key things, it reduces tear out and it is less prone to grabbing the work piece.

My second piece of advice is to not try to take too heavy of a cut in one pass. This will result in tear out and the bit grabbing as well. With a profiling cut this means you want to trim your workpiece relatively close to size on a bandsaw, and with a chamfer cut you want to do an initial pass with the bit lower than your final pass.

My third piece of advice is to use a starter pin/fulcrum pin. This is so incredibly helpful when starting your cut and when managing difficult spots like when you cut around the tail end of a scale. Keep in mind that you always want to feed your piece against the direction of the cutter, and the pin will make it so much easier to start and stop your cuts.

I do all of my scales using top bearing bits in the mini table setup with a starter pin. You need to use either a template or something to act as a template. For a Mule I will often tape the blade and use the actual knife as the template. You just want to drill for your hardware first, then trim off the extra material on the bandsaw, then do my router work. I will try to come up with a more detailed tutorial with pictures for you if I can find a little time in the next few days.

I think this might still be less dangerous that what I'm doing now. I'm putting end mill bits in my drill press to get the grippy surface finish they provide on micarta. It puts lateral pressure on my tool and will eventually kill it. I even tried to cut some time in sanding by hand to make my scales flush by buying this bit :



The whole chuck assembly fell off once and it almost ended badly ! I need to build/buy that router table and invest in a mini mill. Thanks a lot for your feedback, I know how many hours I'll save, it was mostly a question of "is it doable" . I've even seen some table with pretty good safety around the bit so that you can throw yourself on it. In many situation it would have to be removed but it's nice to know it's possible :

That bit is exactly like the one that I use. You’ll be amazed at how quickly you can trim a set of scales to be perfectly flush. I will often leave the front of the scales long and then cut them after the flush trimming because it’s a spot that is prone to chipping out. See the spot by my thumb in this picture. Really I should have left even more material on this set, but I did this all in a bit of a rush just to get some pics


You’ll want to cut a spacer to place between the scale and the tang, which keeps you from hitting the tang with your bit. The spacer needs to be slightly undersized in relation to the tang since you don’t want the bearing riding on the spacer. I use 1/8” Masonite, but any thin stock will do. My recommendation would be to not go thicker than 1/4” with the spacer to keep things well aligned.

For beveling you want to get a small chamfering bit with a bearing. This time you’ll use the two scales pinned together with a spacer between them. Here is a video of me doing the initial pass on the bevels-



Here are a couple of pics of the beveled scales after a second pass


I took those pics immediately after routing, before doing any sanding. I should have used thicker stock for these, but like I said they were really just done quickly to get some pictures. It just so happened I had some 1/8” thick pieces of Bloodwood sitting around so that’s what I used.

Let me know if you have any questions, either now or when you get setup with a router :)

I would not have dared to ask that much of you but your post is EXACTLY what I wanted to learn and see ! The post to have something to lean the part on before leaning towards the bit is very clever and must avoid many errors/risks. This message made my day yesterday ! Thanx much

Thanks for sharing Casper, lots of good ideas from your posts !

Using this a bit lately. @legOFwhat? handle that was gifted a while back.

standy99 wrote: ↑

Wed Apr 10, 2024 9:33 am

Using this a bit lately. @legOFwhat? handle that was gifted a while back.

I see no picture

legOFwhat? wrote: ↑

Wed Apr 10, 2024 10:10 am

standy99 wrote: ↑

Wed Apr 10, 2024 9:33 am

Using this a bit lately. @legOFwhat? handle that was gifted a while back.

I see no picture

Hahahahah I was wondering if my brain had the same reaction as others. It did!

Can I lick it

VeraX_Knives wrote: ↑

Wed Apr 10, 2024 12:24 pm

legOFwhat? wrote: ↑

Wed Apr 10, 2024 10:10 am

standy99 wrote: ↑

Wed Apr 10, 2024 9:33 am

Using this a bit lately. @legOFwhat? handle that was gifted a while back.

I see no picture

Hahahahah I was wondering if my brain had the same reaction as others. It did!

Can I lick it

Sure you can!

Hmmm. Unfortunately, no I can't post one because someone destroyed it sadface.

VeraX_Knives wrote: ↑

Wed Apr 10, 2024 12:24 pm

Can I lick it

Sometimes I ask myself how much he's kidding.. or is he?

Jason, show em why I'm laughing so hard you know how you have all those candy canes. Take a picture please lols.

legOFwhat? wrote: ↑

Wed Apr 10, 2024 10:10 am

standy99 wrote: ↑

Wed Apr 10, 2024 9:33 am

Using this a bit lately. @legOFwhat? handle that was gifted a while back.

I see no picture

Picture shows on my phone, so must be my pc that is the problem.....

legOFwhat? wrote: ↑

Thu Apr 11, 2024 7:30 am

Picture shows on my phone, so must be my pc that is the problem.....

Well that makes absolutely no sense unless you're using an ad blocker which.. no wouldn't do that. Some extension could? I thought you saw what I did and was like yummy what a fail. And ya Mike I will later I don't think that they really care about my sugar addiction. Yeah okay I have candy canes that look.. exactly like that handle and are delicious. And yeah my a1c is 5.4 so I'm getting away with it while I can lmao. Sugar is a very debatable medical topic. Well glucose. And it's effects on the brain. With what I eat. Anyone here would think that I would be overweight and diabetic. It's meat and sugar. But I'm 5'6 104lbs because both my parents are also (I guess).

Yes go ahead and actually say something to me about it. Call me names although it's not allowed here I'm giving y'all permission! or something it's not going to bother me. I've heard it all.

Jason

!	Message from: VeraX_Knives
	@hollowt1pzDon't forget about the discord analysis Friday night if you're going to be attending just.. leave me a message there or contact me.

Fresh set of Gabon Ebony scales I made on my HIC Mule. Last night I ordered some black screws so I can go full stealth

CasperFatone wrote: ↑

Sat Apr 13, 2024 6:05 am

Fresh set of Gabon Ebony scales I made on my HIC Mule. Last night I ordered some black screws so I can go full stealth

I like that. A lot. Get a few with the black screws if you don't mind so I know if I should switch over. I've wanted to use CF but I don't have any. I think with a dark weave it would look pretty badass but I can't say yours is any different lol and the wood imperfections with that stain finish.. ah. I think make it just.. real pretty hah. Good idea man

I'm not typically a fan of pure black but with the HIC material I think it's absolutely gorgeous as far as a knife goes. It's different with steel or c/p vapor disposition type coatings KTL whatever you want to call it on steel. The same above with the slight nickelesque gold reflection of a high polished edge - primo

Jason

VeraX_Knives wrote: ↑

Sat Apr 13, 2024 9:36 am

CasperFatone wrote: ↑

Sat Apr 13, 2024 6:05 am

Fresh set of Gabon Ebony scales I made on my HIC Mule. Last night I ordered some black screws so I can go full stealth

I like that. A lot. Get a few with the black screws if you don't mind so I know if I should switch over. I've wanted to use CF but I don't have any. I think with a dark weave it would look pretty badass but I can't say yours is any different lol and the wood imperfections with that stain finish.. ah. I think make it just.. real pretty hah. Good idea man

I'm not typically a fan of pure black but with the HIC material I think it's absolutely gorgeous as far as a knife goes. It's different with steel or c/p vapor disposition type coatings KTL whatever you want to call it on steel. The same above with the slight nickelesque gold reflection of a high polished edge - primo

Jason

I have both black and titanium screws ordered. That way I can also try some gold or blue anodized screws with the black. Tomorrow I’ll hit these scales on the buffing wheel to get them looking right

Cocobolo scales that are fresh off the buffing wheel. No finish or buffing compound, just sanded to 1000 grit then buffed with a raw cotton fabric wheel. You can see why this wood is so desirable.

I have always loved how wood looks on a knife once it's properly done and whatnot. I personally like some of the lighter ... 'Worse' ones like ash or such which is what is on my secondary santoku in rex 121(bad idea cause I'm lazy and always wait until after eating for cleaning up, magnacut has become my go-to). My neighbor is a wood guy, does furniture work with wormy cedar so I thankfully do have someone that I can ask questions to or anything like that.

The .. I suppose "pia" reason why I don't use wood more than I personally do is because we do knives for chef's and most people, either have to legally, or just plain prefer elastomer-covered for the NSF certification and hand feel. I have had a very long argument with someone at that place on the difference between composites and wood and why I can cover something that is Chinese made so absolutely NO idea what it really is but will stick their stamp on it yet very non toxic wood covered in the same material is .. apparently not sanitary?! Still never actually got an answer about that one because there isn't a rational answer. I suppose the common sense is "just another reason not to start a business in 2024 America" - a slight problem in my personal opinion knowing my generation and how we think AKA "oh noes I can't work 5 days a week what do you think I am a robot" "No actually I was thinking more maybe man with balls" but apparently I was too incompetent to actually care about the world changing.... It tends to do that kinda inherently whether I care or not haha.

Edit: BTW, that link a picture/video bbcode deal doesn't work for me I usually URL tag it, but I think if you remove the space before http, it should* parse correctly. I watched it regardless but I'm a PC nerd. Depending on what the backend of this looks like.*

Edit2: and I crashed me car tonight! (Ive owned a lot of cars this was my '22 red WRX, of which I have had multiple GD chassis STIs younger so familiar with) being an idiot with overpressured summer tires on wet gravel. well honestly it's not that bad it's all plastic and fits back together it wasn't even hard enough to set off the bags which I .. should have pulled the fuse to but forgot. I should add that any .. I believe they call it "hooning" these days that I do, is not necessarily entirely on a closed track but it's done with ways that there's no other cars on the road or if so I know about it. I like to have fun like the next guy but some stuff I've seen.. absolutely nuts. I'll put a link it any you want to see some really crazy stuff of people intentionally running from the cops using their own chase protocols against them. No actually I won't because of the Spyderco affiliation and if it was my company I wouldn't want associated in any way shape or form with that kind of behavior, but it's readily available to anyone with two brain cells.

Jas

For those that have made wooden handles, what size pins did you use? 4mm? 6mm?

hoshko wrote: ↑

Tue Apr 16, 2024 8:06 am

For those that have made wooden handles, what size pins did you use? 4mm? 6mm?

I only use 3/16" pins. The larger holes are 3/8" and the lanyard hole is 1/4" if I remember correctly.