Formula 1 clipits.

[Carlos]

I just got my CF Civilian today, and have been contemplating its grandeur -- both in workmanship and materials.



It is unfortunate that the implementation of highest-tech materials in optimal forms exceeds the realistic price point limits for regular production folders. Using premium steels, nested locks, and aluminum or G10 handles appears to be the practical limit at the high-end.



Carbon fiber, especially as a formed laminate, titanium, MMC, etc, appear for the most part to lie tantalizingly beyond the reach of us sad technojunkies. Of course a few future limited production clipits from Spyderco are going to live in this Formula 1 category of superpremium materials and construction: ATR, Codename: "Salsa," and the Temperance series.



I know that Spydercp probably has to extensively cull the dangerous overpopulation of SKUs throughout its lines, both in-house designs and custom collaborations, so all of this is merely technojunkie dreams, but what do you guys think of a small superpremium collection of very limited production, in-house designed clipits (starting with the ones named above). Imagine, no compromises in materials or design! (Say a MSRP price point $200 to $250.)



Do you think it would be viable, even in small numbers? I know that Spyderco has done even more expensive knives in small numbers, what do sales records say about the viability of superpremium production clipits?



Perhaps only a dream, but a technojunkie's dream. <img src="smile.gif" width=15 height=15 align=middle>

I don't consider myself a technojunkie, but I would absolutely support elite sprint lines of dream knives. I would hope there will be a fair number of larger(Military and CF Civilian sized) blade models in its line up, as they really dish out the presence/performance a highend piece deserves.

Ken

[Carlos]

I guess that the problem for a small company with knifes at an over $200 MSRP is that it can't afford to carry even a small stock of them. In effect, they always have to be &quot;pre-sold.&quot; Considering the presumably small market for production knives at that pricepoint, the question becomes: can they sell enough to remain profitable?

A technical question on the CF Civilian for Sal: The carbon fiber laminate scales seem incredibly dense compared to G10. What is the weave count used? By counting layers it looks like 10, but it could be 5 or 6 depending on how one is supposed to count.

[seth]

Carlos-
The think the key is the market. Take for instance hundguns. Thrity years ago, the handgun buyer would be hard-pressed to find an unique high quality piece. Demand grew as more buyers/collectors came into the market. Soon Pistolsmiths were making their name and living customizing factory standard handguns.
The demand grew as well the price and delivery time.

Then one day, the Factory Custom Shops came into being. Now you could get a semi-custom S&amp;W K-frame, with all the hot features,
for a fair price.

I believe the knife culture is growing rapidly. Knife buyers demanded quality and variation of sytles. Not long ago, only the hand-built custom makers could meet that demand. Now, with designer factory blades selling big, the want for 'something really special' drives the market. I believe we're about to see a surge in factory blade aftermarket modification -- the knifesmith. Driving the demand for rare, yet affordable blades even higher.

Thus, it is my hope, The Spyderco Performance Shop will see birth and bear steel. All we have to do is get everyone we know to buy and collect unique knives.

Seth

[Carlos]

Are you thinking of a custom shop akin to what Emerson is doing? I like the idea, but I see a few problems with that for Spyderco, that Emerson doesn't have. First, all of Emerson's production folders (except the Raven) use the same basic construction: Linerlocks with G10 scales. The problem here is that custom upgrading of a FRN knife to G10 or other scale-type contruction requires entirely different tooling.

The second thing is that Emerson knives are all made at his US facility. Most Sypdercos are made in Japan, with only a small selection made here in the US. So the tooling for most of these knives is several thousand miles away, which only leaves access to tooling for the USA-made knives for a US based custom shop.

Finally Emerson owns all of its design, whereas most of the high-end (and thus most likely to be customized) Spydercos are licensced designs. Different custom makers may or may not approve of their designs being used for custom shop modification (this may encroach upon their own custom production of these knives).

This is why I think that we would be more likely to see a limited production series of &quot;Formula 1&quot; clipits, and the occasional upgraded sprint of established in-house designs than a custom shop at Spyderco.

[seth]

Carlos,
Thank you for points about the nature of Spyderco production. They were educational. There is much to learn about the business side of knives.

I was, in fact, speaking of a Emerson-type Custom Shop.

While Spyderco may not be able to create a US based Custom Shop; I support the dream of Superpremium Spyderco knives coming to life.

Once again, if the demands of the market prevails, there must be a way to fulfill the need.

Hoping for the day,
Seth

[sal]

Hi Carlos, Ken, Seth. Interesting topic and certainly one close to my own heart.

The &quot;custom shop&quot; would still be a ways off, for many of the reasons that Carlos mentioned. Ernie's &quot;custom shop&quot; is Ernie. very small production of a custom maker.

The demand for Spyderco customs would quickly exceed our ability to comply. Also ther are some excellent aftermarket guys that are doing better jobs at &quot;custom&quot; than we can.

Also custom to many is not F1. F1 is &quot;no more than necessary and no less than perfect&quot;. nothing extra added.

I do believe that we will be trying to produce F1 versions of in house designs in the future. As Carlos indicated, smaller runs or JIT versions as needed.

The Temperance will one day find a formed CF scale, working on it now. (sorry Carlos, 2 pieces) but it's still a ways off so I can't say more at this time.

The &quot;plan&quot; is for a Titan version of the Salsa &amp; ATR as well as lower cost versions.

The &quot;general&quot; market and the &quot;collector&quot; market are different with different needs. For Spyderco, both markets are important but being a small company, we must also be careful.

sal

[Carlos]

Hi Sal,

This is great news for the future -- personally I am more interested in &quot;F1&quot; than &quot;customized.&quot; I think that F1 more closely reflects the Spyderco identity and ideal.

You have me as a supporter for Temperance, whether in G10 or CF. The CF Temperance once it arrives will be one of the most advanced production clipits ever (right up there with the CF Michael Walker) -- perhaps the most since it will be textured for function rather than polished for looks. We'll get to one-piece CF eventually. <img src="smile.gif" width=15 height=15 align=middle>

BTW, great description of the F1 philosophy.

Off-topic: I recently saw a spy photo of the hub/brake assembly of Ferrari's F1-2001, and nearly the entire thing is formed CF laminate. You can see an image here:

http://itv-f1.fp.sandpiper.net/media/imagelibrary/4853_2.jpg

Edited by - Carlos on 4/22/2001 1:57:18 PM

[tique]

I have to agree 100% with everything stated here. I was intending to post earlier, but y'all pretty much summed up my feeling on the subject.

I would just like to say that I am looking forward to any and all of the F1 clipits. These sound a lot better than a custom shop, as I am not always interested in my knife looking &quot;pretty&quot; to the people around me. I am interested in it functioning as a solid tool and outperforming the competition, and that to me, makes it a beautiful piece of cutlery.

Knowing where Spyderco has been, and the things they've accomplished up till now, I guess we shouldn't be too suprised that they had the 'F1' side-path already planned out for the future. I always seem to gravitate towards lean-clean in appearance and performance as opposed to flash/extravagance. I can just imagine seeing 3-d sculped g-10(or some other high performance mat.)scales on other wide-handle models, or integral compression lock variations of the Police or Endura models.

Ken

[Mr Blonde]

YES, I would definitely support the idea for a custom shop offering F1 knives. Bring on the Ti handled integral compression lock Military! Sorry, I couldn't help myself <img src="wink.gif" width=15 height=15 align=middle>

Wouter