Just another idea

[ramlanrafie]

Sal,



What about using damasteel for spyderco. It look nice to me but frankly i don't know the advantage and disadvantage of this steel. Perhap you can expalain abit about it. Still remember the evolution edition of C01 in damacus.



thanks a lot.

[sal]

Hi Ramlanrafie. Intersting that you would mention that at this time. We are currently considering a short run in damascus for our 25th anniversary piece this year.

Damasteel is a powder metal process, but it is not quite the same as the powder metal process used in CPM steels. My current feeling is to go with a local stainless damascus, probably by Devin Thomas.

We are, however, quite at a loss to determine which of the current models would be the most desired.

any opinions?

sal

[Tom Percy]

I would go with either the Calypso Jr. or Military .......

[Carlos]

Here's my best idea:

Since the Worker is getting its own commemorative edition, the 25th Anniversary should be the most "important" or "significant" clipit produced in tha period. In that case I vote for a special run of the Endura. While most of us obsess over the high-end pieces, the Endura and Delica are really what define Spyderco within the industry.

What I'd like to see is a damascus Endura 2, with aluminum (blue almite?) or titanium handle (instead of steel).


My only other notion is a special 25th Anniversary Military. But since Spyderco plans to upgrade the Military design to a compression lock, how about giving the first run of compression lock Militaries a damascus blade?

[Clay Kesting]

Well, just for something completely different <img src="smile.gif" width=15 height=15 align=middle>. I mentioned in another thread that Spyderco had produced 30 Executive models with dinosaur bone inlays. So taking that idea further how about a Pro-Venator with a plain edge damascus blade and stabilised wood or bone inlay instead of Kraton. I think it would have great appeal to collectors and be a suitable anniversary piece. The Sebenzas with wood inlays seem to be quite popular.

What do you reckon? I know I'd buy one. <img src="smile.gif" width=15 height=15 align=middle>

Clay

Don't worry that the world might end tomorrow, in Australia it's tomorrow already.

[Paul Work]

A damascus Delica would be absolutely incredible!

Paul

[fannin]

I think the idea of a heavy duty endura with all the trimmings for the 1/4 century piece would be great. It's truly a defining knife for spyderco. Damascus steel, liners, beefy lock, maybe even Ti..., surely would be a hit.

[Ewok]

Hmm, how about Damascus Standard, with Micarta scales?

[copilotboy]

I agree 100% with Carlos. The endura and delica are really what makes up the huge percentage of spyderco knives people own

[Paul D.]

The Police is a very popular model, and has great lines. I think a damascus Police would be excellent. Actually any damascus Spyderco would be excellent.

Paul

[SharpeML]

Damascus Cricket with aluminum handle!

Wouldn't that be nice!!!

[Terr]

Calypso Jr.- the best

[Tom Percy]

There are lots to choose from. But I do hve to aggree with Carlos. The Endura and Delica are what most people think of when you say Spyderco, and that seems to be what the industry has centered around.
I would agree with a damascus Endura 2, with aluminum (blue almite?).

[stu]

With out a doubt, the Military w/compression lock.

Sincerely,
stu

[Clay Kesting]

Since it looks like my idea of a Pro-Venator has gone over like a lead balloon, I'll just have to throw my weight behind another option.<img src="smile.gif" width=15 height=15 align=middle> My second choice would be the Calypso Jr. It has all the essential elements of a Spydie i.e. hole, clip and hump , but it is also has elements which set it apart and represent trends in the latest designs i.e. flat ground blade and choil. The design has achieved wide acclaim from aficianados and, as Joe Talmadge has pointed out, there is nothing equivalent from any other manufacturer.

How does a Calypso Jr. with burgundy micarta scales and a damascus blade sound? <img src="smile.gif" width=15 height=15 align=middle>

Clay

Don't worry that the world might end tomorrow, in Australia it's tomorrow already.

[Paul D.]

Sounds good to me Clay. How about with a nickel silver or stainless spyder inlaid into the burgundy micarta? <img src="smile.gif" width=15 height=15 align=middle>

Paul

[Blades]

That sounds good to me Clay. <img src="smile.gif" width=15 height=15 align=middle>


Blades

[Guntaholic]

I think a Delica would be great!!!

[gadfly]

While the best looking Spydie is my Stamate, I think it would be difficult to make in Damascus steel. With production in mind, my vote is for the Military.
I haven't seen it, but the dinosaur bone scales sounds like a great idea for a limiled production knife.

One way or the other, you pay for your tools!

[Eclipse]

I would like either a damascus cricket with aluminum handles or the police model. The cricket is perfect for the small jobs. The police is the knife that really says Spyderco to me.

Zach

[Brian_Turner]

A damascus blade on a Delica or Endura - Stainless damascus on an FRN handle? Talk about putting tits on a bull!

[Jazzman]

I think that the gun metal color of the Almite Navigator would look really cool with Damascus.
Just my 2 cents,
Matt

[Clay Kesting]

Brian makes a good point. The scales do need to match the blade material. That was another reason that I suggested the Calypso Jr, hopefully the contractor in Seki City still has the patterns etc. for the micarta slabs and there would be no extra tooling costs. Failing that, it may be possible to use different scales on any model with stainless or G10 scales. I must say a damamscus Police tickles my fancy <img src="smile.gif" width=15 height=15 align=middle>.

Hey Blades, how does a damamscus Chinese Folder grab you? <img src="smile.gif" width=15 height=15 align=middle> Did you see the pictures of chinese made one that were posted on BF some time back?

Clay

Don't worry that the world might end tomorrow, in Australia it's tomorrow already.

Edited by - Clay Kesting on 5/7/2001 11:01:15 PM

[The Stare]

Too bad it has to be an existing model. I understand the development time frames, but would really like to see a completely new model.

I'm thinking that Spyderco has barely tapped the fixed blade genre. I think an elegant, small fixed blade that could be worn as a neck knife or belt knife would be fantastic. Something sort of on the order of the REKAT Pikuni or the CRKT Polkowski/Kasper.

It would seem likely to me that a collaboration could produce a pattern very quickly, and that with none of the lock parts to deal with, and maybe no bolsters, that setting up tooling would be much quicker/easier also.

Of course, the biggest down side would be the lack of the hole, though one could be placed somewhere there.

Oh well, just dreaming.


Stare

Edited by - The Stare on 5/7/2001 5:02:10 PM

[Carlos]

Hi Brian &amp; Clay,

That's why I suggested a damascus Endura 2. Since the Endura 2 has an ss handle, upgrading it to titanium or almite should be easy. And since they are tip-up/down convertible it would appeal to the widest audience.

[Clay Kesting]

G'day Carlos,

Sorry, I guess I missed the &quot;2&quot; in your original post. I think I would probably prefer the Delica to the Endura as I would still like to be able to carry it as a dress knife and the Endura is too big for my cicumstances. I would prefer micarta or almite scales rather than titanium to keep the cost down. Do you think a hollow ground blade would show up the pattern in the damascus better than a flat ground one?

Clay

Don't worry that the world might end tomorrow, in Australia it's tomorrow already.

Edited by - Clay Kesting on 5/7/2001 11:16:24 PM

[Carlos]

Hi Clay,

Hollow-ground damascus would be a bit more &quot;dramatic,&quot; but you can see the pattern just as well in either. I like the idea of micarta, but I don't know it that would require new tooling for the Endura/Delica IIs.

I'd like a larger knife partially because like carbon fiber, the pattern of damascus is best showcased on a larger format IMO.

I agreee that your idea of a micarta/damascus Calypso Jr. makes for a superior &quot;gentleman's knife.&quot; My only objection is that all Calypso's have always been tip-down only, which would exclude it from my collection. <img src="sad.gif" width=15 height=15 align=middle>

Another thought: Perhaps the best 25th Anniversary piece would be a high-end sprint of the one clipit that Sal thinks best represents those 25 years. Sal?

Edited by - Carlos on 5/8/2001 12:00:55 AM

[Brian_Turner]

I like the idea of a micarta Calypso jr. The small size would minimize cost and increase &quot;carryability&quot;, it would be a very &quot;trademark&quot; design, and it would look very nice. A crisp flat grind can bring out a very nice effect, especially in tightly layered damascus.

As for a larger knife, the Endura 2 makes a nice case as a trademark design that would come together well with a damascus blade.

Personally, though, for a large knife, I would prefer the Ti handled Lum tanto in stainless damascus (Ummmmm....). The grind changes would look spectacular in the damascus, and if the damascus were deep etched, it would have a wickedly dark look to boot. Maybe do a DDR style anodize thing on the Ti handle... Gotta be well over $200 for that (real cost, not just MSRP), though - But you can bet I'd jump on one! Jeez. I'm sweating after typing that up!

Sadly (personal preference...), I'd have to say that the knife should be at least partially serrated, for the sake of &quot;trademark&quot;.

Edited by - Brian_Turner on 5/8/2001 7:20:22 AM

[Zhang Fei]

I think the ideas for a Delica or Endura are right on the money. Sal mentioned in an earlier post (this forum? the other?) they are the best selling models in the lineup. My first Spyderco was a Delica, as I'm sure many of yours was also. They are the most popular, the backbone of the line. Honoring them for this would seem appropriate. Besides, it seems like every other model gets upgrades - inlay Military, Crickets, Dragonflys, even Ladybugs with CF handles, blue Natives, inlay Natives, a dozen different Civilians, etc. etc. What about a matched set? Delica and Endura. Damascus steel blade, micarta handle, SS or even Ti Spyder inlay, perhaps with a &quot;25&quot; in the body of the spyder, not too big, a little smaller than the inlay on the Military? Something refined but restrained, please, no inlays like the Native or Vesuvius. Personally, I find those too flashy and even a little tacky. Just something nice.

ZF

[sal]

Hi Zhang Fei. Welcome to the Spyderco forum.

Some nice ideas are coming up. I think that a Delica of sorts might be a good option. Handle materials? Ti, CF, Micarta, color?,

sal

[stu]

Sal,

The Delica was not my original choice for the anniversary model, but it was my first love. I carried one for years.

I vote for a bead-blasted Ti handle, it would compliment a Damascus blade; maybe a discreet laser etching of the logo with &quot;25&quot; inside it, down near the lanyard hole.

This is some of my opinion combined with ideas from this thread.

Culling Spydercos for 2002 is difficult, this is fun!

Take care,

stu

[Tom Percy]

It the blade is dark, then I would go with a White Micarta. It the blade is light to medium colour, then Deep Burgandy Micarta.
Should be quite a show piece.....

[Carlos]

For a gentlemanly damascus Delica I'll vote for ivory Micarta, and a damascus clip.

[Clay Kesting]

This is starting to sound pretty cool <img src="smile.gif" width=15 height=15 align=middle>. I mentioned burgundy micarta in an earlier thread but Carlos' suggestion of ivory micarta scales and a damamscus clip had me drooling all over the keyboard <img src="smile.gif" width=15 height=15 align=middle>. I would prefer to steer away from CF or Ti for the scales to keep the cost down. Purely selfish, but if you've seen our exchange rate recently I'm sure you'll understand <img src="sad.gif" width=15 height=15 align=middle>.

Carlos, this tip-up/tip-down can be a problem can't it. Like you I prefer I prefer tip-up but nearly all my daily carry knives have ended up being tip-down so I've just had to get used to it. BTW I did change the Chinese Folder back to tip-up though, it just works much better that way <img src="smile.gif" width=15 height=15 align=middle>.

Clay

Don't worry that the world might end tomorrow, in Australia it's tomorrow already.



Edited by - Clay Kesting on 5/8/2001 2:30:22 PM

[Brian_Turner]

The ivory micarta with a damascus clip sounds way cool. I've got a Sawby folder with a damascus clip to match the blade and it's an awesome look.

[Carlos]

Hey guys,

Isn't consensus a wonderful thing? <img src="smile.gif" width=15 height=15 align=middle>

BTW, a question for Sal: I heard on the other forum that the regular production Enduras/Delicas will be converted to flat grinds in the near future. Would the 25th Anniversay Delica be the last of the hollow grinds or the first of the flat grinds?

[vampyrewolf]

This could be a sweet knife... almost need 2: a display and a carry.

Ivory Micarta
Damascus clip/blade
Flat grind

Nice enough for church and interviews, but still utilitarian in designs.

[Carlos]

Hi guys,

Sal clarified the grind change coming for the Enduras/Declicas: It won't be a full flat grind from spine to edge, but rather a saber grind (the part that is now hollow will be flat).

In this case, I would prefer than the 25th Anniversary model -- if a Delica -- be hollow-ground.

Edited by - Carlos on 5/9/2001 3:14:51 PM

[Clay Kesting]

I agree Carlos, I would much prefer a hollow ground blade to a sabre grind. Whilst I can see the validity of Brian's point about the &quot;trademark&quot; value of serrations, my personal preference would also be for a plain blade. I haven't been able to stop thinking about this knife since it evolved into it's present form <img src="smile.gif" width=15 height=15 align=middle>. I have a Moki Evrina in ivory micarta with scrimshaw by Linda Karst and I can't help thinking how nice this Delica would look scrimshawed.

Clay

[Carlos]

Hi Clay,

I'd expect them to be produced 50% with plain edges, and 50% with serrations -- like the other recent sprint runs. I too would be going plain edge.

I suppose that we shouldn't get too excited about this idea for the folder until we hear from Sal.

Hmm...I wonder if we could have a damascus lock lever as well (with David Boye style cut-out). <img src="wink.gif" width=15 height=15 align=middle>

Edited by - Carlos on 5/10/2001 2:09:19 PM

[Clay Kesting]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size=1 face=arial>quote:<hr height=1 noshade>Hmm...I wonder if we could have a damascus lock lever as well (with David Boye style cut-out). <hr height=1 noshade></BLOCKQUOTE></font><font face='Verdana, Arial, Helvetica' size=2>
Carlos, you've got to stop this <img src="wink.gif" width=15 height=15 align=middle>. I'm not a young man anymore and all this excitement might prove too much for me <img src="smile.gif" width=15 height=15 align=middle>. It just keeps sounding better and better.

Sal, please put us out of our misery. Is this likely to be a goer or not?

Don't worry that the world might end tomorrow, in Australia it's tomorrow already.

[sal]

Cost will be a signifiant factor. Making anything is possible. Selling $900 production knives is hard to do.

Put a damascus blade in a FRN handle and you've jumped the price by $100 - $200 already, depending on the type of damascus.

Evrina is no longer being produced (you have a very rare piece, Clay) and Linda's beautiful scrim adds another $200.

That's why I'm asking for your opinions. My apologies for forcing you to think about cost (a real drag for me), but when reality does rear it's ugly head, we mortals yield.

sal

[Carlos]

Hi Sal,

I guess part of the problem is that if you put a damascus blade into an FRN handle (Delica) would result in a $150 to $250 knife that likely no one would want. At the very least it needs Micarta and that must add at least another $50.

Could you work up some MSRP numbers for different possibilities?

1. Damascus blade &amp; Ivory Micarta scales

2. Damascus blade, clip; &amp; Ivory Micarta scales

3. Damascus blade, clip, lock lever, back spacer; &amp; Ivory Micarta scales

What do you think is a reasonable MSRP limit? #3 would be the finest, but obviously the most expensive -- but by how much?

Edited by - Carlos on 5/11/2001 6:33:15 PM

[Clay Kesting]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size=1 face=arial>quote:<hr height=1 noshade>you have a very rare piece, Clay <hr height=1 noshade></BLOCKQUOTE></font><font face='Verdana, Arial, Helvetica' size=2>
Sal, don't I know it. It is the centrepiece of my collection and I'm never likely to forget how I came by it <img src="smile.gif" width=15 height=15 align=middle>. I didn't mean to suggest that the Anniversary piece should be scrimshawed, I was just thinking that if it was ivory micarta, I might get it scrimmed myself.

If it is necessary to stay with the FRN handle to keep the cost down, would it be possible to change the colour to make it more distinctive. Perhaps burgundy or even the blue already being used on the Delica? However I would much prefer micarta scales and would certainly be prepared to pay extra to get them.

Clay

Don't worry that the world might end tomorrow, in Australia It's tomorrow already.









Edited by - Clay Kesting on 5/11/2001 8:14:20 PM

[Carlos]

I think the painful ($$$) truth is that a quality damascus folder is an expensive thing and there is no way around it. IMO a 25th Anniversary piece should be very special. I agree with Clay that I'd be willing to spend more for ivory Micarta scales. I could probably live without most of the other damascus bits <img src="sad.gif" width=15 height=15 align=middle> , but the hilt really should be on the same level (in terms of quality and aesthetics) as the pricey pattern-welded blade. Enough philosophy for now. <img src="wink.gif" width=15 height=15 align=middle>

[sal]

The damascus is the pricey part. I'm chasing damascus prices now. Damasteel is considerably less expensive and looks very much the same. That might be a way to go.

I personally do not want to use FRN, neither does Jeff (Our GM). He suggested using a boltser and some type of oddball handle, stag, ivory micarta or?

sal

[Carlos]

Hi Sal,

I was going to suggest bolsters of sterling silver, but held back due to Clay's admonitions on keeping the price down. I am also unsure of how good bolsters would look with the Delica's handle shape.

If you opt to use a bolster (of whatever material), I still vote for ivory Micarta scales, and damascus or damasteel bits (if possible for clip, lock lever, and spacer).

[Clay Kesting]

Now you're doing it too Sal, this is way too much excitement for someone of my age <img src="smile.gif" width=15 height=15 align=middle>. I would love Spydie with bolsters, nice long ones, Barlow style (showing my age again <img src="smile.gif" width=15 height=15 align=middle>). Carlos what about nickel silver rather than sterling silver, much less expensive. Stag or jigged bone scales would be nice but could further add to the cost, I'd be just as happy with ivory micarta. As far as cost, I want one of these even if I have to sell most of my other knives and one (two?) of the kids <img src="smile.gif" width=15 height=15 align=middle>.

Sal, please keep us posted, I'm really interested in this project.

Clay

Don't worry that the world might end tomorrow, in Australia it's tomorrow already.

Edited by - Clay Kesting on 5/12/2001 8:06:44 PM

[vampyrewolf]

I would love to have one of these, but have to stay in the $100-$150 range. I might be able to do $200 max. any chance this will be around $150?

[Brian_Turner]

Sal -

Damasteel would be a wonderful choice. Glad to hear that FRN is less than popular <img src="smile.gif" width=15 height=15 align=middle> .

A Spyder with bolsters?!? Man, that's why you're the knife designer guy. An excellent left turn to distinguish a special knife.

I still like the idea of ivory micarta and a damascus clip. Never seen a Damasteel clip! I know it would add to the cost, but if the blade, bolster, and clip are all matching damascus, you've got one spectacular effect that is rarely found outside of the custom arena.

I'd use the size of the knife to keep price down rather than adjusting with materials. Go full-on for the design, then select a smaller model to reduce the amount of materials.

[Carlos]

Hi Brian,

I can't agree on the size issue -- most damascus folders are made puny to keep costs down. It is like putting carbon fiber scales on a Cricket -- it is nice but it doesn't compare to the grandeur of a carbon fiber Civilian; I think you lose much of the impact of the fancy materials if the form is too small. In the case of this 25th Anniversary piece, I would say nothing smaller than a Delica, and I would still prefer an Endura. <img src="smile.gif" width=15 height=15 align=middle>

Damascus bolsters? I have looked at a number of custom folders with damascus bolsters and it seems to me to be &quot;too much,&quot; and overly ornate. I think they reduce somewhat the impact of the damascus blade by their size and their proximity to the blade. A silver bolster would at least blend somewhat with the ivory micarta and not de-emphasize the blade.

I think I would prefer no bolster at all, but with damascus used for the clip, lock lever, and spacer. I think this would tie the whole knife together, and give the damascus a continuity from blade tip to handle butt, yet without detracting the primary emphasis from the damascus blade. I wouldn't object to silver bolsters if bolsters are deemed necessary.

[Paul Work]

How about a Delica with Damasteel blade and Almite handle? Gun metal blue would look great.

Paul

[ramlanrafie]

wow, now my matrix table are gone haywire already. got to develop a new table.

more idea pleasssse

[Carlos]

At this point I am curious as to what Spyderco will actually do. Any hints Sal? <img src="smile.gif" width=15 height=15 align=middle>

Edited by - Carlos on 5/14/2001 11:44:28 PM

[Clay Kesting]

I'm all for using damasteel if it will help keep the cost down. Likewise I have mixed feelings about bolsters, I really like the look of them but I'm afraid they may make the knife too expensive by making the manufacturing process too complex. Without bolsters, the knife could be linerless like the micarta Calypso Jr. etc, but bolsters would necessitate the use of brass or stainless steel liners. Perhaps Carlos is right, no bolsters but damasteel clip and locking bar would give the best appearance for a reasonable price. I think the Delica would be the ideal size.

Clay

Don't worry that the world might end tomorrow, in Australia it's tomorrow already.