Small Knives

[Bogardan]

Hello from a newbie.



I've been looking around for a knife recently, and found Spyderco products to be highly reccommended. I browsed the catalogue and was all set to pick up an Endura when I decided to check out the knife laws in my home state (California).



I'm heading off to college next year, and it turns out there are some fairly Draconian laws for people on college campuses. It turns out that if I "bring or possess any dirk, dagger, ice pick, or knife having a fixed blade longer than 2 1/2 inches upon the grounds of, or within, any private university, the University of California, the California State University, or the California Community Colleges is guilty of a public offense, punishable by imprisonment in a county jail not exceeding one year, or by imprisonment in the state prison."



I'm pretty sure that disqualifires the Endura, so what would you guys reccommend in its place? Or would the Endura still be legal?

[dsvirsky]

The Endura is neither a dirk, dagger, ice pick, or fixed blade knife. Nor is any other Spyderco folder. You will not be breaking any state laws carrying it while on your college campus. Campus policy may be more restrictive, though.

In the old days (early '70's) I carried a Buck 110 on my belt while at SFSU. These days, I would advise a more discreet approach.

Dave

[dsvirsky]

double post

Dave

Edited by - dsvirsky on 4/28/2001 10:01:51 PM

[tortoise]

Search here and at bladeforums' Spyderco forum for threads on the Mouse. My all-time, absolute, hands-down, no apologies favorite small knife. You shouldn't raise any eyebrows with one of these, and you won't come up short in the matter separation department.

[sal]

Hi Bogarden. Welcome to the Spyderco forum.

Schools are pretty serious about "weapons" these days so I would not recommend an Endura.

The length of 2.5" would be measured from the "hilt" or end of the handle to the tip of the opened blade.

I would suggest one of the smaller models.

Navigator, Mouse (available from Tim Wegner), Cricket, CoPilot, Dragonfly, Dyad jr, Ladybug, Toad.

sal

[vampyrewolf]

I was suspended last easter for having my Delica at school. I searched for a knife I could use at work for boxes, and still use all day at school... I got a Ladybug.
The same design as the endura/delica line, only smaller.

[copilotboy]

Take it from another newbie, spyderco's arew awesome!! My question was similar to yours, but i'm not in college. My first and only spyderco knife is a copilot which just arrived about two weeks ago. It's my new favorite knife. If you have the money, you might want to spring for the Mouse knife. However, I'm assuming you'll have the average college budget, so the copilot if definitely a great buy for the money!!Buy one and you'll see the difference.

[mundele]

Hey... I'd like to recommend the new Navigator with the slotted Almite gunmetal blue scales. It is such a nice little knife! You'll find yourself forgetting that it's little...

--Matt

[Tom Percy]

The G10 navigator and Pegasus are great little knives, but are both on the endangered (discontinued) list.
I have not been disappointed by any of Spyderco's small knives. They may be small in size but big in performance.

[mrb]

I have an Endura II serated edge - a great knife, but too much "presence" for me to feel comfortable using it "in public" - great for camping etc.

My Dragonfly II is almost perfect for my daily needs - the stainless body has ample weight to open with a quick wrist flick. It is discreet and classy looking, IMHO.

I would LOVE it if it were a tip down knife.
(How about another option Sal ;-))

[Bogardan]

I think I'm going to end up getting a navigator, but I have one question. I have fairly large hands, and I'm a bit afraid of these big old meathooks not being able to control a knife that small.

Anyone out there have any experiences with this knife and big hands?

[mrb]

I'm 6'2", probably bigger than average hands - the Dragonfly felt a bit small to open initially, compared to my Delica and Hunter (now obselete - but was a bit like a stainless body Pro Venator), but I became accustomed to the smaller size very quickly, and am very comfortable with it now.

[Clay Kesting]

Bogarden,

I have fairly large hands and have no problems with the Navigator. The handle is designed in such a way that it really locks into your hand. I'm always surprised at how "big" it feels.

Clay

Don't worry that the world might end tomorrow, in Australia it's tomorrow already.

Edited by - Clay Kesting on 5/2/2001 8:09:24 PM

[sal]

Hi MRB. Welcome to the Spyderco forum.

sal

[copilotboy]

My huge hands have no problems finding a hold on the copilot. I'm only about 5" 9', but my hands are about 9 inches long. I would recommend the copilot to any large-handed person.

[Jazzman]

I just bought an almite navigator this morn. this little knife just rocks. no contest!
Good luck,
Matt

[Blades]

PEGASUS!! get one while you can!! <img src="smile.gif" width=15 height=15 align=middle>
The Calypso Jr.'s are nice little knives also.


Blades

[Bogardan]

Just one more question. What are your guys opinions of almite vs. G-10 handles?

[vampyrewolf]

Almite is better for show and *wow*, but G-10 is a better all-around material.

For an EDC, I would get another Almite, but for utility and camping, I'd get a g-10 military.

[Jazzman]

Hmm. I think that on a heavy duty knife, G10 is best. I have two almite knives, the Toad and the Navigator. Almite is extremely light and looks cool to boot. Some people complain that it is too slippery, but with the Navigator, the slots in the handle help alot.
Good Luck,
Matt

[Clay Kesting]

G10 has it's place on big tactical knives like the Military, but for EDC I much prefer Almite or micarta. Maybe I'm just bored witless with black G10 but I do so like my Almite Navigator and Chinese Folder.

Clay

Don't worry that the world might end tomorrow, in Australia it's tomorrow already.

[ftkinney]

do you recomed the pegasus or the claypso jr.?

FTK

[Allen E. Treat]

Dear Bogarden ;
As Sal suggested there are
smaller model(s); I carry a &quot;Cricket&quot; with
no problems. Might I suggest the &quot;Delica&quot;
with it's legal length blade of 2 1/2&quot;?

Just a thought.

Sincerely,

A.E.T.

[Clay Kesting]

ftkinney, I'm not sure if that question was addressed to me but I'll have a go at answering it anyway. I don't own a Pegasus but I do have an Almite Navigator, which is a similar size, and a couple of Calypso Jr. I think you'll find that the consensus here is the Calypso Jr is one of the best medium size EDC knives on the market. It cuts like a laser due to its thin edge, flat ground blade and VG10 steel and I find it large enough for most daily tasks including cutting up fruit and tomatoes for my lunch. The Calypso Jr is the knife I usually take to work, but if I'm going somewhere less knife friendly I'll take the Navigator. It (and the Pegasus and Mouse) are little knives that haven't been told so yet and perform as though they are much bigger. There is a story in &quot;The Spyderco Story&quot; about a couple on safari in Africa, using a Copilot to skin their trophies.

Different knives, different advantges. As Sal says, &quot;All good, just different&quot;. <img src="smile.gif" width=15 height=15 align=middle>

Clay

Don't worry that the world might end tomorrow, in Australia it's tomorrow already.

[ftkinney]

thanks for the advice clay. i was intresed in the ss handle but that comes with aus-6 steel. how does that compare to the VG-10?

[Clay Kesting]

FT, my cattledog shows the stainless Calypso Jr. as having AUS8 for the blade steel. I like this steel, it has a very fine grain structure and takes a hair-popping edge, although it may not hold it quite as long as some of the harder steels. A few years ago it would have been considered the ants' pants but nowdays knifenuts won't look at a knife unless it has the steel flavour of the month. What would turn me away from the stainless Calypso Jr. is the hollow ground blade. As you've already noticed <img src="smile.gif" width=15 height=15 align=middle>, I'm particularly partial to flat ground blades. I find they handle deep cuts much more efficiently and are much better for use with food. The superior edge geometry of the flat ground Ltwt. Calypso Jr's blade is the models main attraction.

Clay

Don't worry that the world might end tomorrow, in Australia it's tomorrow already.

Edited by - Clay Kesting on 5/11/2001 5:01:23 AM

[ftkinney]

clay-i was looking for a mid sized knife for edc that has a ss handel, plain edge and after your recomadation of the flat grine ,expecaly for food choping, is well taken do you know of such a spyderco.

FTK

Edited by - ftkinney on 5/11/2001 7:02:54 AM

[Clay Kesting]

FTK,

The only knife which comes close is the Bob Lum Chinese Folder. It has a 3 3/16&quot; VG10, flat ground blade and a green Almite handle. I have to say this is my favourite Spydie. I've been hanging out for it since the prototypes first appeared at Blade'98 and it was worth the wait. If you do a search here and at Bladeforums.com, you will find many positive comments about it.

Clay

Don't worry that the world might end tomorrow, in Australia it's tomorrow already.

[tortoise]

Hey Clay,

I guess that's an Australian cattledog?

[ftkinney]

tortiose i saw in a post that you dislike the liner lock i was wondering what aspect bothered you the most?

[Clay Kesting]

Mate, she's a Blue Heeler, does a great job rounding up the kids and the pet rabbits <img src="smile.gif" width=15 height=15 align=middle> <img src="smile.gif" width=15 height=15 align=middle>.

Clay

Don't worry that the world might end tomorrow, in Australia it's tomorrow already.

[tortoise]

ftk
That's a fair question, for which I'm afraid I don't have much of an answer. I guess it's just personal preference. I've got a Military. It locks up like the &quot;bank vault&quot; everyone talks about. -Real nice, no worries. I had a Benchmade liner-lock, same deal, no troubles. But... I'm just not wild for the design. Nobody does it better than Spyderco, and even my Military had to be replaced because the first one I had didn't lock-up solidly.
In the end, it may be about the idea that a perfectly executed liner-lock is as good as any other system, but a liner-lock is also one of the easiest to screw up. So if two cars give equal performance, but one is more sensitive, finicky or prone to failure (or even PERCEIVED as such) than another, which would you want to race at LeMans?

[ftkinney]

thats a very good ansewer. how does the liner lock in the wenger compare?

FTK

[tortoise]

One of the Wegner devotees would be better suited to say for sure. If I recall, the lock in the Wegner has full-length steel liners (which I like less than the Military's nested liner, nested is lighter AND stronger.) There's no eccentric pivot on the Wegner, preventing factory adjustment of the lock to compensate for wear. Overall, judging by the number of fans the Wegner has garnered, I have no doubt the lock is functional and reliable. But, it is a less high-tech, less sophisticated design than the Military.

[ftkinney]

tortoise -- thanks, how does the 'nested' liners work? and what are the advantages?

FTK

[tortoise]

With a conventional liner set-up, the liners are pinned inside the scales (G-10, for instance.) Stress on the lock is transferred to the pins. Therefore ultimate strength is dependent on these small pins. No matter how thick the steel (or titanium in some cases)of the liners, it is the limits of the pins that will determine the limit of the lock.
A nested liner is much harder and more expensive to produce. Just as the name implies, the liner is &quot;nested&quot; into the scale itself, that is, seated into the scale, flush. Stress on the lock is thereby transferred to the scale. Therefore, ultimate strength depends on the limits of the scale material (again, say G-10.) For the lock to fail under stress, the liner would have to blow out the side of the scale. This provides superior performance in two ways. First, weight savings by being able to use a single nested liner rather than two steel liners. Second, increased strength by allowing load to be transferred over a wider area (the scale) rather than concentrated on small points (the pins.)
It's an elegant, high-tech solution to the problem, the kind of thing you see in Grand Prix cars. Years ago Lotus' Colin Chapman came up with the mantra &quot;Add Lightness.&quot; Sal did.

[clipiteer]

Bogarden, an almite navigator or an aluminum cricket perhaps? If that is still too big maybe a Ladybug II would be better.

clipiteer

Edited by - clipiteer on 5/22/2001 9:57:52 AM