Has Spyderco ever considered using non-stainless steel?

[OutofGum]

Although stainless steels have improved significantly over the last few years, I think non-stainless steels continue to have an advantage in some areas such as edge retention and durability (A2, 3V, O1, 52100, M2 come to mind). Has Spyderco ever used non-stainless in a knife?

Granted, many people who buy pocket knives don't take good care of them, and I guess Spyderco may be worried about warranty problems, but I think that the people who are willing to buy non-stainless steel knives also know how to take care of them.

Just wondering what everyone else thinks.

[thombrogan]

They're not so big on the low-chrome steels. The people in warrantee and repairs would be spending too much time cleaning up corrosion as we knifeknuts are only a vocal portion of their market.

On the plus side, S30V seems to test at similar rates of toughness than A2, just with less resistance to elastic failure. So long as you're not buying a Spyderco fencing sabre, you'll be all set.

Believe me, I'm all for low-chrome steels. M2 and M4 would rule in little big knives while a 3V Temperance would hit the SPOT (the SPOT having M2 or M4). 1075 for a Street Bowie? That's how they're often made in France, so why not?

A2 is an excellent all-around cutlery steel, just the higher-chrome steels tend to have higher wear-resistance and corrosion-resistance, so they're often better choices for most of us (I'm getting great results with AUS-6 in some cases, so it bothers me less than otherwise). Also, the low-chrome knifemaking world is undergoing a new dark ages. There are a lot of incredible knifemakers out there and a lot of incredible and knowledgeable knifemakers using the low-chrome steels, but the mythmakers are much louder and, like mythmakers in other fields, get better press.

[thombrogan]

You edited as I typed! :rolleyes:

[severedthumbs]

I am liking s90v more than any non-stainless I have ever used.

[OutofGum]

Sry about the edit :p Thought of more steels a couple minutes later as I read the post over

[Rob]

Very interesting question. As for the warranty problems. Spyderco could exclude corrosion defects caused by improper care from warranty on knives with low Cr blades. I think, that no one would have a problem with that if you know it before you buy the knife.

If you know that your blade CAN rust, you automatically keep an eye on it more often.

As for the steels. I think something between high Cr and low Cr steels would be cool. Something like D2 which is "semi-stainless" - it can rust but it most likely will not :)

I've once made a knife (http://members.chello.at/robert.fruehauf/shared/old/neck2.htm) of the European equivalent of D2 and I must admit that I was impressed by the cutting abilities of this steel (although it had a chisel grind). Even at HRc 60 it was easy to sharpen and the edge retention surprised me. For the folks who enjoy the more tactical look, the steel can also be etched with ferric chloride for an amount next to nothing. That would also leave some space for customizing :D

If Spyderco ever decides to make a knife with a low Cr steel, I am in for one!

Cheers, Rob

[Carlos]

D2 is as close to non-stainless as Spyderco is willing to get. So far there is no consensus from collectors on what model for a D2 test run.

[thombrogan]

After using SGPS and S30V ran as hard as D2, I finally realized I didn't need M2 to satisfy my sharp tooth. Would like to see a :spyder: in ZDP-189 or S90V, but it'd have to be a little big knife, like the Salsa, Temperance (ambi one that I hope to see in 2005), or Dodo. Don't mind going off brand for a fixed blade in a low-chrome steel.

I'm very keen on the Self-Defense Forums 'waved' Endura in D2. Manix, too. Yojimbo, too. Native, too. :)

[severedthumbs]

why not do it in a big big knife?

[thombrogan]

Little knives are for cutting. Big big knives are for cutting and whatever else comes to mind. I'd want more shock-resistant steels for such things. Softening a steel that works best when it's very hard is a waste of material.

[severedthumbs]

when I say big I mean 4 inch max blade. I would love the Para in s90v.

I have a Socom Elite in s90v and just love it.

[JD Spydo]

There are 2 commericial high Carbon blade steels that deserve a hard look. One is Cold Steel's "Carbon V" and the "INFI" used by the Busse knife Co. Now please don't get me wrong; I am a devout Spyder-head. But the 2 big knives I have in Carbon V are just great for hard use. Referring to the Trailmaster Bowie & the Gurkha Kukri. I personally have not used the latter but I have heard nothing but good about it. It would be nice to see a limited run of something of like kind to be distributed to the very essense of the Spyderfreak world. You could sell them only to the folks in the Collector's club and as a promo to Spyderco dealers for only the truest of the Spyder-clan. And they ought to concoct their own blend like the 2 aforementioned companies. Just a thought/suggestion :) :spyder: :)

[vass]

why not go the golden middleway ! a laminated blade would do the trick for me ! :spyder:

[sal]

We can build anything tha the market wants. The question is always the size of the market.

It seems that in the "general market", rust is akin to disease. That's why we persued the H-1 solution. Steels like VG-10 and S30V exhibit great qualities in sharpness, edge retension, toughness, corrosion resistance and ELU satisfaction. That combined with a minimal of complaints makes them excellent steels for high-performance knife blades.

In our abrasion testing with CATRA, S30V has demonstrated better edge retention than both D2 & M2.

But I also must admit that some testing we've done with some of Ed Schempp's steels have demonstrated performance not indicated on the CATRA.

As Carlos mentioned, we would be happy to produce a model in D2 or M2 or anything else the market (you) indicated that you wanted it. Our models vary more than most other companies (size, materials, clips, locks, etc.). Some clear indication of model preference is what we need.

In the case of ZDP-189, Because of Hitachi's requirements, Japanese manufacture is necessary. I selected the two "preferred" FRN models (CAly jr & Delica) to provide samples of the steel in a high function, cost effective package so those aficianados interested could experience the steel without having too large of a negative impact on the wallet.

D-2,M-2, L6 or L7, even 52100 would more than likely be made in the USA. To me, an off color FRN Native, flat ground, would be the ticket, and I'd do an S90V version at the same time.

sal

[J Smith]

D2 flat grind Native sounds good to me.OD scales and blasted clip please.

[Carlos]

Sal,

Are you considering using ZDP-189 for a regular production model?

[The Deacon]

In the case of ZDP-189, Because of Hitachi's requirements, Japanese manufacture is necessary. I selected the two "preferred" FRN models (CAly jr & Delica) to provide samples of the steel in a high function, cost effective package so those aficianados interested could experience the steel without having too large of a negative impact on the wallet.

D-2,M-2, L6 or L7, even 52100 would more than likely be made in the USA. To me, an off color FRN Native, flat ground, would be the ticket, and I'd do an S90V version at the same time.Geez Sal, between the "Kopa of the month club" and the toys you mention here, think I better just have my paycheck routed direct to NGK. :eek: :D

All kidding aside, a full flat ground FRN Native, in any steel and any color sounds great to me! :cool:

[sal]

HI Carlos, just the two "sprint runs" for now. 1200 each. Plain edge.

sal

[thombrogan]

I'd be game for ZDP-189 Delicas and Calypso Jrs. If it works, then ZDP-189 flat-ground Natives would be great, too.

For it and again it!

[severedthumbs]

s90v flat Native. :eek: where do I sign up? :spyder: