handle scales?

[aquaboy420]

Has anyone tried to put handle scales on a SS spyderco? I have an overabundance of thuya and marandiba and I was wondering how to install on my spydies. I dunno but I'm either thinking superglue (by far the easiest but will the scales hold and for how long) or tap my handles and use tiny screws (maybe eyeglass type). Has anyone tried this modification? Any help would definitely be appreciated.
-greg

[The Deacon]

I have not, but quite a few have. Vess, who posts here occasionally, has added wood onlays to a few different models and sold them on eBay. Believe most that do it use epoxy rather than CA and think he said once that he had tested the bond by gluing a piece of wood to the blade of an old dinner knife then dropping it, throwing it, and genearlly abusing it - and the bond held up.

The caveats with epoxy are:

- roughen the surface of the handle a bit with coarse sandpaper first for the best bond
- use very little - it's a b!+*h to remove the excess
- plug screw holes (especially at the pivot end) - don't want to glue the blade to the handle
- clamp gently - at least one person has ruined a knife by clamping it so tightly as to press the handles against the blade.

[STR]

Chances are that trying to thread any holes you make in the stainless handles on your knife now would be an exercise in frustration. You would most likely just break off taps and then have to hope to get it out whole rather than grind it down on both side to blend it best you could. I'm not sure what stainless Spyderco uses but I'm sure the existing handle scales are hardened to at least a Rockwell 45 if not harder.

The only real good way would be to use brass pins or some aluminum pins in a 3/32 or smaller size maybe that would be soft enough to be easily tapped to make the heads on both sides expand to keep the handle scales on. I'd probably do the pinning in conjunction with a glue bond of some kind.

Drill your holes with a cobalt drill bit or a carbide one and go all the way through both stainless scales already on the knife so the holes are in the same place on both handles and mark your new wooden, G10, or Micarta holes in the scales by going through from the other side once you put it where you want it.

To pin I'd use a sheet of thin preferably hardened steel or a screwdriver head and wedge it in tight against the bottom of each pin. Anything hard that will fit inside the knife body where the blade closes down in the body would probably work and pin the heads on the inside using this sheet or screwdriver and hopefully whatever you use on the inside will flatten and expand the heads on the inside of the knife for you as you tap the heads of the pins on the handle side. If it goes good it should be enough expansion on the head surface of each pin inside the body of the folder to form retention in conjunction with the epoxy. Which I'd for sure use on the pins too. I hope all that makes some semblance of sense.

The only other way is to do as suggested earlier by roughing up the surface of the stainless and glue a scale on unless you want to take the knife apart and that would be hard to do without damage I would think.

[aquaboy420]

Deacon,
Testing in progress, glued dinnerknife clamped and waiting will throw tomorrow. Thanks for a good testing strategy. If this does not work after some amount of abuse I will run out to drillpress.
Deeb,
I had to read your post 3 times but now it makes absolute sense, although I'm wondering if I can damage the inside of the handles. I'll have to look around the workshop, but you put me in a good direction. Thanks.
Cheers,
-greg

[Fisher of Men]

I like The Deacon's idea.

Sounds good......and I think that throwing a dinner knife around with stuff glued to it would be a freaking riot. You need to post a pic of the dinner knife with stuff glued to it :D

Cheers,
FoM

[aquaboy420]

FoM,
I only wish I could post some pics, maybe even a video clip of the damage and abuse that my kitchen collaboration is going to endure (may look like a cold steel video). Alas, I had never replaced my digicam after KMart (my dog) ate it, well not all of it, but you get the picture (no pun intended). I may have to get another cam soon so that I can show off. Cheers.
-greg
P.S. If anyone lives in the St. Louis area has a cam and wants to help me get some pics up send me an email and I'll get back to ya. Thanks.

[ghostrider]

Funny you brought this up. I had actually thought about getting some G-10 or Micarta and attaching it to the handle of my byrd Meadowlark. Found this stuff called ‘Lightning Bond’ at a ‘Sport RV & Fishing Show’. I asked the man specifically if it would hold G-10 to a SS knife handle and he said it should but recommended roughing the surface of SS first (I think he even said it had been done). The demos he was doing showed promise. I think this stuff will work and it isn’t messy. Now I just have to figure out how to go about shapping the G-10/Micarta.

[aquaboy420]

ghostrider,
Lightning bond; checked out the web site, sounds pretty good and it may work for this type of application better than super/crazy glue. There is an accelerator as well for porous materials. Did you pick up any at the show? I'd like to know if it works well before I'd shell out $20 for some glue. Of course there is a gun/knife show tomorrow so I may find some there. Good luck on your G-10/micarta Byrd project, I'd like to see how it goes. Oh, and I'll try to keep ya'll posted. Cheers.
-greg

[ghostrider]

Truthfully I haven't gotten past buying the bond. Not really sure how I'll go about shaping and grinding the handle material so it will look nice so I haven't gotten any yet. This project will probably be put on hold (no pun intended) untill I finish my schooling in about four weeks. (Saturday morning class is for the birds) :p . If you'd like I could try to find some SS bolts (I can't think of anything else but am open to suggestions) and pieces of wood and experiment tomorrow and let you know how that goes. Don't know if that will be much help to you. I do however think this stuff looks promising. Just put a little of this on one surface, then put a little of this other stuff on the other surface and press together. The man at the show made it look easy :D . He was doing all kinds of materials and bolts on wood was one of them.

Website! Can you give me a link? I can't find it in my packet. :( I would like to look it up myself.

David

P.S.
Sorry about the extensive writing. I am typing a paper for class so am in the 'writting zone'.

[The Deacon]

Well I never tested it with a knife or stainless, but can tell you for a fact that if you epoxy a chunk of aluminum (an engine mount) to a slab of 1/4" birch plywood, and fly it into the tarmac at about 90 miles an hour, the plywood wil shatter, the aluminum will bend, but the epoxy joint will survive. Again, from model airplane experience, the absolute strongest epoxy is the slow cure stuff, but considering that the slabs on a stainless handle will never really be subjected to any majors stresses, the 5 minute variety would be more than strong enough.

The one **CRITICAL** thing I negelected to mention earlier is that you need to degrease the knife thoroughly before applying the epoxy. I would suggest hot water and dish detergent, followed by drying, followed by a wipe down with alcohol, and a final pass with a dry paper towel. Work with the knife open, and grasp it by the blade only once you've degreased it to keep from contaminating the surface of the handle.

[crahen]

I used to do custom rehandling. I've put custom handles on almost every type of knife you can think of. Traditional pattern slip joints, fixed blades, lock backs. In every type of handle material. Pakkawood, micarta, exotic woods, bone, stag, celluloid. I did a Case hawkbill in Christmas tree celluloid, and another in candy stripe celluloid that I think the hawkbill lovers would have liked.

Well, on to the point, I always used 5min. epoxy whether I pinned the handles or not (sometimes I would not put pins in to give the knife a sleeker look). NEVER had a customer that had any problems. Even rehandled Buck 119s and 120s with big blocks of ebonywood and rosewood, etc. Never had a handle come loose! Guys put some of them to hard use. No problems :D

[DAYWALKER]

Aloha aquaboy420!

Say...I could send you some of the "food" they serve here at my job! That stuff sticks to EVERYTHING! :p

God bless you on your project my friend :cool:

[The Deacon]

Aloha aquaboy420!

Say...I could send you some of the "food" they serve here at my job! That stuff sticks to EVERYTHING! :p

God bless you on your project my friend :cool:Dunno Chad, better UPS it if you do, sending that stuff through the mails might be a federal offense. :p

[aquaboy420]

Hey guys,
The first test was a bust, superglue and crazyglue was used in both gel and liquid form and failed a drop test with a 12+ hour cure time. I'm going to the gunshow in as soon as the girls get clean and will maybe pick up some lightning bond, heck if I find some you'll all get a review for sure. The website can be found here http://www.lightningbondglue.com/ . All is not lost, as they say "back to the drawing board". Of course if Daywalker can send me some of his alleged "food" I can test/use that and heck ,might as well write a review on that as well. Cheers.
-greg

[DAYWALKER]

Aloha aquaboy420!

Hey, keep at it dude...this is a neat thread ya got started, so see it through to it's end...

Uh...also, as the wisdom of The Deacon shines yet again, er...cancel that prison food offer! :p

God bless :cool:

[ghostrider]

aquaboy420,
I opened the bottle today for some experimentation.
This stuff smells a lot like super glue. Also, Deacon said that epoxy works better than CA.

The website says that Lightning Bond is an improved Cyanoacrylate. I am wondering if this is the CA he is talking about.

[The Deacon]

I'm sorry, CA is cyanoacrylate which I imagine is also the same as alpha cyanoacrylic cement, the first "generic" name that the "super glue" adhesives were marketed under. I have not used cyanoacrylates for a few years. However, up to the last I did, the quality varied tremendously from brand to brand, and some of the most heavily advertised performed very poorly. In model airplane construction, their strong points were very fast dry times and light weight. When you're putting together a wing that may have over 100 glue joints, both of those factors become significant and, as long as the glue joint is stronger that balsa, it's strong enough. Epoxy was always used when water or fuel, a mixture of alcohol, and oil, might be expected to come in contact with the joint, as it sealed the wood so nothing would not soak in and eventually weaken the joint. That last is probably the most significant reason for favoring epoxy for knife handle construction, as it allows more leeway in finishing the scales and more carefree use.

[aquaboy420]

Well, I'm definitely done with trying cyanoacrylate no matter what brand name it has. I lost track of what I was doing at the knife show (like that could happen) but have decided to go back tomorrow (like we didn't see that coming). Epoxy seem to have an appeal, although I believe I have never used it, how strange. Or thinking about Daywalkers alleged "food" maybe I can use the stuff in the bottom of my brewpots.
The Deacon, crahen,
If there is none to be found at the show, or my head is seemingly shoved inside my rectum (happens alot at gun/knife shows (kidinacandystore syndrome)) and I don't bring any back; is there a trusted name brand, or maybe something chemicalwise to look for? You two seem to have some experience with the stuff.
Ghostrider,
I'd like to hear how your work progresses. Do you have the accelerator? Have you tried a die grinder for your handle material. I haven't worked with g-10 or micarta but stabilized wood can sometimes be tough I had a piece of diamondwood (kind of like plywood only in the sense that it is pieces layered together) that destroyed multiple cut off disks.
cheers all.
-greg (or my evil twin brother)

[crahen]

You can go to Walmart, Lowes, Home Depot, Ace, etc and get a two part 5 min. epoxy. Let's see, I think there is Dura Bond, and a couple of other brands, it doesn't really matter. It will be in two attached tubes side by side. The plunger pushes on both tubes at the same time. Just push the plunger to get equal parts of resin and hardener. Follow instructions. It will tell you when you can work with it, etc.

As I said in my other post I've done a lot of custom handles and NEVER had a problem with the handles coming loose.

Just make sure your surfaces are VERY clean, and if they are smooth, rough them up with 100 grit sandpaper.

I used to use a belt sander to grind and shape the handles. Going down to finer and finer grits. Then I would hand finish.

Good luck, and have fun :D

Oh yeah, for your safety;
1.Wear safty goggles
2.Wear hard hat
3.Wear gloves
4.Wear steel toed shoes
5.Wear fire proof suit
6.Keep small animals away from area
7.Do not drink or take drugs while working
8.Do not talk on cell phone while working

[ghostrider]

Not sure what a die grinder is but I don't have any equiptment other than and electric hand drill.

Yes, I have the accelerator as well as the filler.

[mikewww]

I have always found the slow-curing epoxies to be more forgiving. and easer to clean up the inevitable mess. With the 5-minute types and hot weather, it is more like 2 minutes. And if the parts are not properly positioned, you could be sunk. As you will be working with expensive knives, why not use the best. In my opinion this is J-B Weld.

The worst thing to use epoxy on is old, cured epoxy - even if you roughen the surface. Rather clean off all old, cured epoxy first.

A die grinder is a rotary tool which turns at one hell of a speed! It is usually used with mounted stones. For this purpose it would be better to use a rotary file, and have the grinder mounted beneath a table with only the file protruding. This is similar to a router with the guides removed. And I must add "don't try this at home". Seriously, wear eye protection. Gloves would be better, but will hinder fine control of the hand-held material.

Best of luck

Mike

[aquaboy420]

Yes, eye protection is a must. I use a cutoff wheel for rough shaping, then go to a rough stone/rough sanding discs, to finish I use a spindle sander then buff. I have a table for the grinder but haven't used it, mine is setup like at a dental office with a flexible wand extension. I really need to get a rotory file and a rotory saw bit, but they don't last long with me (I make do). But, seriously wear eye protection .

I picked a winner today, the :spyder: I picked was a NativeIII. I said bye-bye to the pocket clip and put a rough finish on the non pocket clip side. I'm not sure if I want scales on both sides yet and may decide to "plunge" into the scale and keep a pocket clip. I guess that depends on how it looks upon completion. The wood I chose to utilize will be the marandiba. I've been slacking off so I haven't even patterned the wood yet, but I'll get to it after a drive tomorrow. I'll be reporting back tomorrow. Peace and goodnight.

-the artist formerly known as aquaboy420

[CKE]

Just a note of caution. If you guys are working with Micarta or G-10 especially wear a resperator. I can not stress this enough. The fibers and dust that is created from working with these materials is very hazardous. Steel dust is bad too. Take Care and good luck with your projects.
Craig

[aquaboy420]

CKE,
Thanks for that tip, as I rarely use repiratory protection. Maybe it's time to start.

Started on the wood today; made a template and cut out one of the scales, rough filed and sanded, and it's starting to form into something tangible. I've decided that two scales will accomodate my hands better and look a heckofa lot better. I won't worry about a pocketclip because I can configure a nice carry system, but that will be later. I'm still trying to get a camera so that I can post pics, but with my lack of time it seems to be going quite well. Until tomorrows episode, cheers.

-greg

[aquaboy420]

Finally found time to almost finish. After a few tried attempt to get this just right, I put on my scales. The first set was way too big, and looked gawdy as all getout. My second attempt was fine exept the scales were thin enough for the pocket clip but covered the surface so that I couldn't put one on. I'll try to post pics tomorrow of my third attempt, of which I am pleased. Good night gentleman, see ya'll tomorrow(with pics hopefully)

-greg

[ghostrider]

Looking forward to it. Let us know what you use for material as well as adhesive.

[Easyrider]

Please keep reporting on how your project is going. I would love to see pictures. :D

[aquaboy420]

The scales are finished (yay!). I will try to have pics up tonight. I am currently in search of digital camera and the only person with one that I can borrow is at work until 3 o'clock my time. I shall have pics after that. Cheers.

-greg

[aquaboy420]

Here it is
http://us.f1f.yahoofs.com/bc/4261b3b0_d5e9/bc/Mail+Attachments/CAMEDIA_Master_Wallpaper.bmp?bfHgbYCBoQ3Ky9QJ
and
http://us.f1f.yahoofs.com/bc/4261b3b0_d5e9/bc/Mail+Attachments/CAMEDIA_Master_Wallpaper_0_.bmp?bfb7bYCB9sp2ryRU

I hope these links work, I couldn't figure out how to post them. The wood is marandiba and I used a two part 5 minute epoxy to adhere them. Let me know what you think. Cheers.

-greg

[aquaboy420]

I would also like to thank some people. The Deacon, Deeb, Crahen, MikeWWW, CKE, and my buddies Chris and Braxton for their help and tips; without you all I may have pulled out too much of my hair for me to handle(pardon the pun). Ghostrider, FisherofMen, DAYWALKER, Easyrider for giving me the necessity to complete this task. My girlfriend Mary and daughter Brianna for putting up with me while doing so. And God for granting me the ability to change the things I can. Thanks all. Cheers.

-greg

[Slvgx]

I am having trouble viewing the pictures, I'd love to see them though. Anyone else having problems viewing it?

[Gerard Breuker]

The links don't work for me either.

[aquaboy420]

Sorry guys, I dunno what happened the links are to my public yahoo briefcase. I seem to be having trouble putting the pics on this site. I'll keep trying, or if someone wants, I can email them the pics to put up. Until then.

-greg

[DAYWALKER]

Aloha aquaboy420!

No, no...have not turned to the Dark Side, just been busy. :rolleyes: Anyway, i could not view your images either? Can you email me some images please?

Mahalo and God bless :cool:

[ghostrider]

aquaboy420,
I also cannot read them. If it isn’t an inconvenience I too would like them emailed.

Thanks in advance

[aquaboy420]

How about this let me know what you think.

http://www.paulberetta.com/images/aquaboy/native1.jpg
and this

http://www.paulberetta.com/images/aquaboy/native2.jpg
Thank you Deacon for helping me get these pics up.
Cheers all.

-greg

[The Deacon]

Glad it worked out Greg, any time. Those .BMP files were pretty big, so I took the liberty of converting them to .JPGs. Makes them load a lot faster, especially for anyone still on dial-up.

[ghostrider]

Looks pretty cool. Nice work.

[aquaboy420]

Deacon,
Sorry about that, I am still learning how to operated the camera. Hopefully next time will be better. I still have much to learn, but thanks for the help, IOU.
ghostrider,
Thanks, I personally believe that the pics do it no justice. But a mother would never call her child ugly, now would she?
Happy days.
-greg

[Easyrider]

Very nice! How hard was it to form the wood to fit the contour of the handle? Do you find the extra width of the wood to cause and problems?


I love the look the wood gives an otherwise plain looking stainless steel handled knife. I'm surprised that more people don't do the same thing.

[DAYWALKER]

Nice job aquaboy!!!

What kinda wood is that again? Beautiful!!! Thanks paul, for making it possible for us to see Greg's work! Looks better than...no nevermind :p

God bless :cool:

[STR]

Hey, good job there my friend. Always makes you feel a bit better about the knife you carry when you give it that personal embellishment. At least that is how it is for me.

[aquaboy420]

Easyrider,
Thanks. For the wood I started out with a die grinder for the initial cuts, the wood was too thick and I dulled 3 chisels thinning them, to finish i used files and a table mounted spindle sander. I actually look forward to doing more but I need some more SS handled "canvases".
DAYWALKER,
Thank you, Marandiba is what I used I think it's a kind of snakewood by the grain. And Paul is the MAN!
DEEB,
Thanks, yes it does, I look forward to more embellishments in the future, and I'll be sure to keep you all informed.
Thanks guys for checking out my pimping project, they will only get better. Cheers.

-greg

[zackerty]

Just an idea... look for Kikisui double sided tape on the 'net.
It is used, amongst other things, for sailcloths, and then no stitching is required.
Chris Reeve uses something like this for his Sebbies. Who knows, maybe the same stuff?
I have ordered some, not too expensive, and I will use it and post a pic, and well as a destruction test somewhere along the line... :)

[Mr Blonde]

Nice mods! Thanks for posting the fruits of your labor!

Wouter

[aquaboy420]

zackerty,
Nice idea, although I did a search and couldn't find Kikisui double sided tape. I'd definitely like to see the destruction tests. Do you have a link by chance?

Mr Blonde,
Thank you, not only for your comments, but also for the offer to help post the pics.

You guys are great.
-greg