Overlooked & Ignored Spyders

[JD Spydo]

As the title would indicate I am wanting feedback about Spyders that just couldn't for whatever reason seem to get off the ground. Well maybe I just got weird tastes but I have had others make the same comment to me as well. For instance the JD Smith which is actually one of my top 20 favorites just never caught on. Now with the Lil' Temperance I know that price was a big hurdle but with others like the Rookie which I deem as an ideal/almost perfect folder just never got off the runway :confused: .

I would easily concede that I have unusual tastes but I have also had other Spyder brethren agree with me about certain models that didn't even get close to a "Wall Street Journal" article :D . Myself & the esteemed Dr. Lecter loving Hawkbills as we do have jammed our brains wondering why the Spyderhawk didn't become an icon in Spyderville :confused: . I could name them at nausium i.e. Centofante II, Big C-54 Calypso, G-10 Harpy ect. :spyder:

The latest one which happens to be one of my personal favorites is the Impala ( guthook or not) which I think is a splendid blade but just doesn't seem to get the fanfare it deserves. WHAT'S the deaL??? :confused: :spyder: :)

[jestyr]

i agree with you about the rookie. why that knife never took off ill never know.

[Zoic]

As the title would indicate I am wanting feedback about Spyders that just couldn't for whatever reason seem to get off the ground. Well maybe I just got weird tastes but I have had others make the same comment to me as well. For instance the JD Smith which is actually one of my top 20 favorites just never caught on. Now with the Lil' Temperance I know that price was a big hurdle but with others like the Rookie which I deem as an ideal/almost perfect folder just never got off the runway :confused: .

I have many times pondered what precipitated the discontinuation of my favorite designs. It might have less to do with sales than with cost vs. retail pricing; in other words, it might become so expensive to manufacture a particular design that to set retail where necessary to make any profit it will price the design out of reach for most. All of this is purely speculation on my part, mind you, and is to be taken with liberal doses of crystalline sodium chloride.


I would easily concede that I have unusual tastes but I have also had other Spyder brethren agree with me about certain models that didn't even get close to a "Wall Street Journal" article :D . Myself & the esteemed Dr. Lecter loving Hawkbills as we do have jammed our brains wondering why the Spyderhawk didn't become an icon in Spyderville :confused: . I could name them at nausium i.e. Centofante II, Big C-54 Calypso, G-10 Harpy ect. :spyder:

The Spyderhawk is admittedly somewhat unusual. I speculate that its rapid demise was hastened in part by its considerable size; the Harpy is large enough for most mundane cutting chores, and most people do not feel the need for anything larger. As a matter of fact, the Spyderhawk is not even legal to carry concealed in my jurisdiction, much to my dismay.


The latest one which happens to be one of my personal favorites is the Impala ( guthook or not) which I think is a splendid blade but just doesn't seem to get the fanfare it deserves. WHAT'S the deaL??? :confused: :spyder: :)

The Impala is, by all appearances, an excellent blade, and I too am a bit saddened at its ultimately passing from the lineup.


Kurt

[CKE]

I just bought an Impala for a retirement gift. It is with guthook and PE. A very nice knife but with hunters you get very different views on what a hunting knife should be. I showed it to a co worker and he said the hook was too small for moose but alright for deer. His opinion, my father has the same size guthook on his hunting knife and really likes it. To each his own I guess.
Some models are very short lived, it all comes down to us, actually, the ELU if we don't buy it then they won't continue to make it. It is too bad, some models are barely out then they are pulled. Glad I got a Lil T..thats for sure:) Take Care!!!

[Mr Blonde]

Don't count the Li'l Temp out yet, or the Salsa for that matter. Generation 2 models are in the pipeline AFAIK!

Wouter

[JD Spydo]

Well Mr. Blonde with all due respect and no "ill will" intended don't you think that these newer models are going to be scaled down versions to make them more affordable to the masses. Whereas the REAL McCOY Lil' Temperance ( the original) will always be in a class by itself. As I said on my opening statement I know the Lil' Temp is just a victim of being too high priced for most consumers. Albeit I know as sure as the world that it is going to be one of the best ever Spyders ;) .

I know that Spyders go out of production because of lack of interest, low sales ect but what I am mainly driving at is why didn't these knives didn't catch any eyes to begin with. For instance I think that the JD Smith might have been a victim of just too many top notch Spyders coming out in that same era. When it had to compete with the Titanium & G-10 Bob Lum Tantos for instance and not to mention the Massad Ayoob, Dyad and all the others that were gaining fanfare at that time. Maybe it was simply and only bad timing. Just my guess :spyder: :cool:

[dialex]

I think some of the knives came too soon and the market wasn't prepared for them. I remember when the Calypso jr. appeared and it simply didn't catch to the public. :eek: Now they reintroduced the same knife and the feedback is totally different. I don't think it's only because of the colour, but because the market is now more selective.
I totally agree with you about the JD Smith. It's a great knife under all aspects.

[denny]

I too want a rookie, please bring it back.

[Joyce Laituri]

Dialex is right (Hi Dialex).

Sometimes the market is just not ready to accept something new or different. Also keep in mind (and my hat is off to you all), you guys have a graduate-plus level education and knowledge in regard to knives. Very few people know and understand knives like you do. The average knife buying consumer doesn't much appreciate materials, ergos or engineering. The majority buys by eye and wallet. That added to our limited manufacturing capacity does make it necessary to discontinue.

We've developed some ideas to far out even for the knife industry to accept. LOL. :eek:

Joyce @ Spyderco

[Senate]

never liked the Native and never understood the hype around it
(i know i'm weird) :)

[Zoic]

never liked the Native and never understood the hype around it
(i know i'm weird) :)

Senate, I must be weird, too. (Sorry, that should go without saying.)

The Native is one of only two Spyderco knives that I just did not like after purchasing them. It is not that they were bad knives or were somehow impaired in their function; there was something almost intangible in my dislike of them. I could never put my finger on what it was, but it was quite enough to cull them from my collection.

----
Kurt

[Fisher of Men]

Well, personally I don't know why the C05 Standard is not still being made. Spyderco really needs to have a smaller knife.....like the standard, delica, or the calypso jr that is made from G10 with liners or at least a partial liner. I hope they bring something back like the Standard.

I personally don't know how the Lil Temp is so popular with the Green handles and being such a wide knife for the blade size. That's just my personal opinion though :).

Cheers,
David

[Mr Blonde]

JD Spydo, agreed, I see your point. Personally though, I am much more involved with a knife's intrinsical design. I am attracted to a design-concept, moreso than the more external apsects like color and material. That is why I don't make a really big distinction between the Li'l Temp 2 or Salsa 2, and their first generation variations.

Sure, I am a sucker for colored spydies, but what really grabs me is the li'l big knife concept rather than a cranberry Salsa. I hope I can make a little sense here. :o

It's too bad the knife market as a whole is still a slow learner. Just imagine how a refined Lum Chinese folder would look like.

Wouter

[JD Spydo]

Well, personally I don't know why the C05 Standard is not still being made.

I personally don't know how the Lil Temp is so popular with the Green handles and being such a wide knife for the blade size. That's just my personal opinion though :).

Cheers,
David

Greetings "FOM". Please don't take this reply as a "slam" because you are among friends here Sir. The one thing that I don't think you have quite learned about The Spyderco Mystique is that Spyders don't apply like ordinary knives. Your comment about the Lil' Temperance for instance is probably predicated on your aesthetic appeal or "non appeal" of the knife. That's where Spydercos in the past have thrown me a very deceitful curve ball as far as my overall evaluation. There have been at least 6 Spydercos in the past that I have said "I wouldn't have that knife if someone even gave it to me" ( end of quote). Boy! am I eating my words now-a-days. For instance when I first laid eyes upon the Shabaria I thought that was the "UUUGLIIEST!!!" knife I ever laid my eyes upon. But after aquiring one in a trade and after using one, playing with it, holding it in my hand several times I saw that the knife was not made to win a beauty contest but was made strictly for function and now it is high on my preference chart. I am now looking for a used one to carry but then again a year ago I wouldn't have even given it a thought. David I have had a few other Spyders like that. When I first saw the Cricket I thought it was a joke. But when I traded for one in the Carbon Fiber version I now have 2 of them in my permanent collection. Now there are a lot of "good Lookin" Spyders out there too. But please David be very careful not to limit yourself because you may be missing something really nice. If you ever want to test drive a Lil' Temp just let me know I will let you borrow one of mine for a while. GOD Bless my friend, and please do give it further thought and try to do some "test driving" like I forced myself to do :) :spyder:

I bet I am not alone with what I just said to DAVID am I?????????

[i.v]

i think it may also be a matter of timing... sometimes a great design may show up but be overshadowed by what's currently hot on the market or what's tried & true...
when a person goes to buy a new knife (lets say me, when i got my first spyderco), they start looking around, for reviews, for what's popular & what's considered good, with spyderco, i think the names "delica" or "police" may show up the most & new models may be unjustifingly ignored & eventually fade away into discontinuation.

[JD Spydo]

Well "i.v." and Ms. Joyce I couldn't agree with the 2 of you any more. Timing especially during the ATS-55 era was a marketing key for sure. For instance I gave 2 of my JD Smiths to friends for Christmas and they both are still raving about them. But yet that model never seemed to make the "neon Lights' like some models of that time did. During the era from 1999 to 2002 there were so many classics during that time that I believe that some folks are just starting to slow down like I am and taking a closer look to appreciate the fullness of quality that these knives possess. If I could turn the Spyder clock back I would lock in to that era. IMHO it was the very best of times. I'll bet if the JD Smith was re-introduced with S30V and a combo edge it would probably sell well. Like I told "Fisher Of Men" some of these Spyders have to be used to be fully appreciated. I got ahold of a couple of Dyads after they quit making them and now it is one of my very favorites but when it was made I always elected to get cheaper models ( to my regret). The Great Spyder Factory in my opinion needs to re-evaluate some of the Classics of that time and seriously consider re-introduction :) :spyder:

[Gerard Breuker]

It seems to me the production discontinuation cycle may be too short for some models to get the appreciation they deserve. Also the choice of distinctive models may be too much for some models especially if they look a bit out of the ordinary as most do. Then there are of course the new models to arrive that hold promises of being even better than the older ones and most of us have to make a choice now and again.

[Simon G]

It seems to me the production discontinuation cycle may be too short for some models to get the appreciation they deserve. Also the choice of distinctive models may be too much for some models especially if they look a bit out of the ordinary as most do. Then there are of course the new models to arrive that hold promises of being even better than the older ones and most of us have to make a choice now and again.

Here, here! For me the cycle is too short as cash doesn't keep up with the models desired! I'm certainly trying my best though!! :D

God bless,

S.

[Fisher of Men]

Greetings "FOM". Please don't take this reply as a "slam" because you are among friends here Sir. The one thing that I don't think you have quite learned about The Spyderco Mystique is that Spyders don't apply like ordinary knives. Your comment about the Lil' Temperance for instance is probably predicated on your aesthetic appeal or "non appeal" of the knife. That's where Spydercos in the past have thrown me a very deceitful curve ball as far as my overall evaluation. There have been at least 6 Spydercos in the past that I have said "I wouldn't have that knife if someone even gave it to me" ( end of quote). Boy! am I eating my words now-a-days. For instance when I first laid eyes upon the Shabaria I thought that was the "UUUGLIIEST!!!" knife I ever laid my eyes upon. But after aquiring one in a trade and after using one, playing with it, holding it in my hand several times I saw that the knife was not made to win a beauty contest but was made strictly for function and now it is high on my preference chart. I am now looking for a used one to carry but then again a year ago I wouldn't have even given it a thought. David I have had a few other Spyders like that. When I first saw the Cricket I thought it was a joke. But when I traded for one in the Carbon Fiber version I now have 2 of them in my permanent collection. Now there are a lot of "good Lookin" Spyders out there too. But please David be very careful not to limit yourself because you may be missing something really nice. If you ever want to test drive a Lil' Temp just let me know I will let you borrow one of mine for a while. GOD Bless my friend, and please do give it further thought and try to do some "test driving" like I forced myself to do :) :spyder:

I bet I am not alone with what I just said to DAVID am I?????????


Hey JD :)

I don't take that as a slam at all. I sure am still new to knives and I am still learning. I guess I have to look at it this way: If I could only buy a Ferrari in a color I hated....I would still buy it (if I had the money).

I will for sure do some test driving before I say I don't like a specific knife. :) I just may take you up on your offer to handle a Lil' Temp. Just know that I would not cut anything but some light cardboard as I would not want to mess it up.

Thanks for the advice JD. It's much appreciated.

God Bless you also my brother in Christ.

Cheers,
David

[GarageBoy]

the peter herbst is a gentleman knife fave of mine..but a las, its gone

[JDEE]

I recently picked up a Blackhawk in a trade. This is a nice EDC, plenty of point, comfortable G10 handle and GIN1 steel. Some have said this was the basis for the Native but I don't know. About the same size but the blade shape is completely different. Don't know why it didn't take off - maybe because of the steel or was it because its blade had a too traditional look? Anyway if they brought it back in VG10 or S30V - I'd buy one.

[JD Spydo]

Well JDEE & Garageboy that's really freaky. Those are 2 that I had completely forgot about. But the both of you are absolutely right. I actually have both knives in my collection and have tried to even trade the Blackhawk a couple of times with no interest what so ever. You're right JDEE it is a very quality knife with a G-10 handle and great blade geometry. Now some people turn up their nose at the GIN-1 which is the blade steel in the Blackhawk but I have 2 users that have GIN-1 and I don't think it is that bad at all :confused: .

As far as that Peter Herbst is concerned that is a real mystery. They tell me that Spyderco was very disappointed with how the German knife company turned them out. I have a factory first of that knife, numbered and excellent condition and I happen to think that it was a nice part of the Spyderco Gallery of knives. That's why I started this thread is because there are a lot of knives that really had no reason not to succeed. Marketing is a business science that I will certainly never figure out. In a country where Alice Cooper, Madonna and Don King can all become multi-millionaire celebrities, it just beats the heck out of me :confused:

[Stevie Ray]

I know this has already been mentioned above, but I've never understood why the J.D. Smith didn't catch on. What a nice high end production folder. Perhaps it was the initial price, perhaps the larger size .... perhaps ... etc, but the fact remains that there were times when one could be had for less than $50 delivered. Not so anymore, but ... gee whizzers...

[The Deacon]

Honestly think the Smith was doomed by the tenacious loyalty that the group it should have appealed to most has for the Buck 110. In any rational comparison, the Smith is far superior, but (as I think we all know) buying decisions are not always purely rational. There is also the question of "dealer support", which I think may have played a large role in the short lifespan of the Rookie, among others. The Rookie appeared on the market at a time when sales of the Standard were already beginning to slip, most likely due to its pricing relative to the Delica, and represented a third knife with virtually the same form-factor. That would have reduced its appeal to dealers, especially those working with limited budgets and/or limited display space. Without dealers willing to risk stocking it, no product will do well.

[224477]

Greetings "FOM". Please don't take this reply as a "slam" because you are among friends here Sir. The one thing that I don't think you have quite learned about The Spyderco Mystique is that Spyders don't apply like ordinary knives. Your comment about the Lil' Temperance for instance is probably predicated on your aesthetic appeal or "non appeal" of the knife. That's where Spydercos in the past have thrown me a very deceitful curve ball as far as my overall evaluation. There have been at least 6 Spydercos in the past that I have said "I wouldn't have that knife if someone even gave it to me" ( end of quote). Boy! am I eating my words now-a-days. For instance when I first laid eyes upon the Shabaria I thought that was the "UUUGLIIEST!!!" knife I ever laid my eyes upon. But after aquiring one in a trade and after using one, playing with it, holding it in my hand several times I saw that the knife was not made to win a beauty contest but was made strictly for function and now it is high on my preference chart. I am now looking for a used one to carry but then again a year ago I wouldn't have even given it a thought. David I have had a few other Spyders like that. When I first saw the Cricket I thought it was a joke. But when I traded for one in the Carbon Fiber version I now have 2 of them in my permanent collection. Now there are a lot of "good Lookin" Spyders out there too. But please David be very careful not to limit yourself because you may be missing something really nice. If you ever want to test drive a Lil' Temp just let me know I will let you borrow one of mine for a while. GOD Bless my friend, and please do give it further thought and try to do some "test driving" like I forced myself to do :) :spyder:

I bet I am not alone with what I just said to DAVID am I?????????

well said, every :spyder: needs a try. few years before, I also disliked Caly Jr. and would never bought it, now it is my most favourite spyder. waitin for more to come ( :spyder: ).. :D :)

[jsholli]

Dialex is right (Hi Dialex).

Sometimes the market is just not ready to accept something new or different. Also keep in mind (and my hat is off to you all), you guys have a graduate-plus level education and knowledge in regard to knives. Very few people know and understand knives like you do. The average knife buying consumer doesn't much appreciate materials, ergos or engineering. The majority buys by eye and wallet. That added to our limited manufacturing capacity does make it necessary to discontinue.

We've developed some ideas to far out even for the knife industry to accept. LOL. :eek:

Joyce @ Spyderco

About the market and mostly about Ms. Laituri's statement about the knowledge of many forumites!!! My professors taught that concept to me well: If one studies a specific subject passionately enough and explores all facets of the subject in question...the student will soon become a reknowned authority, best in the world---if you will, on that suject.

Mine was the enteric microbial ecology of poultry in school, but my passionate study now is Sydercos! :D

Please realize as Joyce stated, that most buyers cannot make an informed decision simply because they ARE UNInFORMED :(

I once was ignorant to the value of :spyder:s, but at the end of last year, I accidentally got hooked on dumb-eBay...as with most of my obsessions, I researched my subject well & was drawn into the web b/c of the great R&D, QC/QA, and the valuable ergonomic variety of models offered. -thankfully!

With my background, experience, and education I can now blatently offer improvements such as sticky (micro-jewelled) SS handles that won't slip out of your hand; sticky thumb ramps and even sticky :spyder:holes; TekLok sheath kits to allow for secure neck carry; blade changes; reconditionings; embellishments; and even direct sales or my 'knife search' option to find a knife for a set customer's price.

Ms. Laituri is very wise to recognize the knowledge that we forumites posess; we need to understand that we, indeed, are strange and irrational in most uneducated knife-buyers' eyes...just as we view the dolts who can't comprehend the honorable efforts made by spyderco to strive to offer excellent products of the utmost value to ELUs...

-jh

[JD Spydo]

I have one more Spyderco I would like to put in the "Rodney Dangerfield" category ( it just never got any respect :D ). The one that has always intriqued me personally but I have yet to hear another Spyder-head say too much about it. It is the Centofante II. Not to be confused with the Vesuvius that Centofante also designed. The Centofante II is very reminiscent of the old Benchmade Phil Boguszewski Spike which I have put in my all time top 10. I have used the Centofante II and it is very functional and could be a very nice self defense piece if the situation arose. I wonder why that never seemed to get any respect. Or maybe I've been talking to the wrong people :confused: OK again the case can be made that I have weird tastes in blades. With that being said I still find a lot of folks agree with me. Ain't that funny :D