Byrds - What HRC?

[JDEE]

Just got a shipment of Byrds in so I thought I would give the Meadowlark a test for a review in our "Knife Knews". I've had a look at the literature around the net but can't find a referance to hardness. Anyone know? Feels and acts like it was around 57hrc but I haven't done much with it yet.

[ghostrider]

Hi Josh,

Same maker. Actually an excellent maker.

Glad you like your para and solo.

on the Cara Cara, the blade is running Rc61. I sharpen everything we make at 30 degrees. Our steels seem to take it well. So I'm doing the same with the Cara Cara.

The steel in the byrds is quite hard. We've little experience with the steel so we're watching closely. Let us know what you think.

sal

Don't know if this is what you are looking for but the Cara Cara, I think, is just a larger version of the Meadowlark.

Here's the link
http://www.spyderco.com/forums/showthread.php?t=14525&page=3&highlight=byrd

Hope it helps.

[Yojimbo]

:confused:

[JDEE]

:confused: whose :confused: I am. Can't doubt Sal but the blade certainly feel that hard on the stones. Maybe I am losing my touch. 440c at 61hrc seems a bit hard to me as I have found in the past that it gets a bit brittle after 60hrc. If all works out then it should make a nice little EDC.

[ghostrider]

Don't know if this will help the confusion.


Hi all - in addition to Sal's explanation, I can reveal that the proto types I have seen and handled from the upcoming Byrd models, are with colored alluminum handles (green, blue, grey) and also some with liner locks. Blade steel will again be 8Cr13MoV a very acceptable Chome-Moly stainless steel. There will not be any 440 C markings on the Byrd knives in the future as the steel the Chineese claim to be 440C is not 440C as we know it.

http://www.spyderco.com/forums/showthread.php?t=14564&highlight=440c

[224477]

Hello guys,

yesterday I ordered the Cara-Cara, cant wait to receive it, planning also to do some user tests, if it should work (test doing :) ) I will let ya know.
But I like the design very much, long sleek knife.. :D

[JDEE]

What about the 8CR13MoV which appears to be similar to AUS-8 - what hardness?

[ghostrider]

What about the 8CR13MoV which appears to be similar to AUS-8 - what hardness?
Based on what Jur said I kinda wonder if the 440c Chinese isn't the same as 8CR13MoV (?). That's the impression I took from his post. This is really getting confusing.

JDEE,
How would you say the 440c byrd steel compares with a AUS-6 :spyder: ?

[JDEE]

I have been using the Byrd Meadowlark for a few days now and it is yet to see the "rods" (I like to get a feel for an edge out of the box for my reviews) and I would say it is better than the AUS8 in the Kabar Doziers. I haven't done a rope (I'm off to the hardware store to buy some) yet and that normally gives you the best feel for a blade - I'll let you know when I'm done with the rope.

[sal]

sorry. salt answer on a byrd thread. will get back.

sal

[ghostrider]

Talonite!
Hmmmm.

[sal]

I'll try to make some sense of it.

Hi JDEE. They didn't feel that hard to me either when I put them on the rods. We Rc'd them in-house and they were running 60/61. I know 440C is brittle at 61. These don't seem brittle. We're still getting feedback.

The steel in the byrds is 8Cr13MoV.

When we first began designing the byrd line and working with the makers, we asked the makers what was the best steel available in China. They said 440C. We requested 440C.

As is my anal retentive, obsessive-compulsive nature, I'm always testing. On the first run, the edge retension was quite good, lock strength was heavy duty range, lock reliability was excellent. Then I analyzed the steel in the first run. Chemistry didn't match 440C. "Something about Chinese 440C".

We communicated with the foundry. Their analysis matched ours. I said we cannot call this 440C in the USA if it is not the same chemistry as 440C in the USA. The name of the steel in China is 8Cr13MoV. .8 Carbon, 13 Chrome, less than 1. moly with vanadium.

It is a good steel and tests in a range with Aichi's AUS-8.

byrd models are made from and will be marked 8Cr13MoV.

It is interesting to note that 95% of all knives sold are sold to people that don't know one steel is different from another. Here on this forum we seem to have many that do. I'm impressed.

I don't think you will find a better quality $25-$30 knife.

sal

[ghostrider]

Thanks for the clarification Sal. I think I got it.

The 440c byrd is actually 8Cr13MoV, just originally stamped as 440c (soon to change).

Test's about like AUS-8 at rc60-61.

No need to reply. Unless, of course, I'm wrong. :)

[JDEE]

I’ve just finished conducting the following tests on the Byrd Knives. Firstly, let me say that I don’t think they are in anyway definitive as they were not as controlled as I would like. I basically did one after the other (I normally rest my hands etc between tests but I got carried away with enthusiasm) and I used one of those Craft Cutting Mats for a backing (I find these Mats harder on knives than hardwood). Secondly, the rope I used was new (just bought it) 3/8” Manila and the rods I used in the Sharpmaker were “fresh” (I.E. they had been cleaned previously – I always have a fresh set of coarse rods on hand) coarse brown/grey rods at 30 degrees.

Control Test – Delica PE VG10 – I made 40 cuts – the Delica was still cutting but I decided that was a good place to stop. The Delica is my EDC although I haven’t carried for a couple of days and I gave it 5 strokes per side to touch it up.

Byrd Meadowlark 440C – I have been carrying this for a few days the edge had not been sharpened it had been used on leather and hardwood dowel. It made 1 cut then starting slipping. After 20 strokes per side on the rods it made 25 cuts before slipping.

Byrd Flight 8Cr13MoV – I did not have any plans on doing a review on the 8Cr13Mo (lets agree to call this “8etc”) so I grabbed a new one out of the box. It started slipping on its first cut (I didn’t think to check if it had a burr). After 20 strokes per side on the rods it made 19 cuts before slipping.

Now I don’t know what conclusions you can draw out of this “little” test but I think you must agree that it is a pretty good result for the Byrd Knives. My Delica has been with me for sometime so of course its edge was at its optimum. The Byrd Knives had only seen 20 strokes per side on the Sharpmaker (maybe this also a good endorsement of the Sharpmaker) there was no attempt to reprofile the edges at all but it did prove that the edges were at 30 degrees as Sal had said previously. The Meadowlark held up well compared to tests I had done recently with Kabar Doziers made out of AUS8 at 56-58HRC (anyone who has used those knives would know they are good slices and their blade profile is a bit thinner than the Byrds).

I would have to do some more tests with the Flight to see how the 8etc is and probably try some of the other designs such as the Pelican. But, for me at the price I would have no trouble recommending them to my customers. Sal, I think you are on a winner here if you can get prospective buyers to ignore the “China Made” tag. I know these tests are nowhere near what you would have done but it should tell the other forumites something coming from a layperson.

[ghostrider]

"8ect."
lol.

Don't know if you meant it to be funny but I sure enjoyed it. :D

[JDEE]

I prepared my rope test post before I read your response. So both of the Byrds are 8Cr13MoV. I don't think it influenced my cutting ability in the tests the Meadowlark definately cut better but there could be a number of reasons for that EG the edge had been broken in. I'll see what happens to the Flight after a bit more work. Nothing wrong with this steel though - definately equal to AUS-8 and I wish you luck with it.

[sal]

Thanx JDEE.

Appreciate the tests, effort and comments.

sal

[HoB]

I don't think you will find a better quality $25-$30 knife.

sal

I think that is an understatement. I think the Byrds are the steal of the century (see my "I'm lovin' it" thread, that quickly disappeared with apparently little interest). The Byrd Meadowlark is awesome!

[JDEE]

Thanks for the comments. As you would have seen I spread the "post" around a bit.

[ghostrider]

JDEE,

Thanks for you review and testing. I am interested in hearing results because I was considering a SS knife. When I thought about the Delica/Endura with AUS-6 compared to the byrd line I had to stop and think about the trade-offs between the two lines. I eventually went with the byrd (although there may have been some predetermination) because it sounds like they have a better steel. It just doesn't sound right the :spyder: having an inferior blade steel. I keep thinking I'm missing something.

With all the attention these knives are getting, I think it safe to say they are no longer worthy of 'sleeper' status. It will be neat to watch the development of this line in the future IMO.