Civilian or Yojimbo for carry

[AllenETreat]

This coming month, I'm trying to decide on between the
:spyder: Civilian or Yojimbo in black.

I like that "fear factor" the civilian carries, one look and a would-be
agressor should have 2nd thoughts. The Yojimbo is MBC related and
might do better in a conflict ( I don't know about that tip on the
civilian, it look's rather fragile ).

I tend towards the civilian, but wanted to get some other opinions.

Thanx.

AET :D

[Zoic]

The Civilian gets the nod from me, for numerous reasons.

I feel it is very defensible in court as it is very much a defensive blade, not one generally thought of as suited to Martial Combat. The James Keating training video will bear witness to this.

Also, in complete fairness, the Civi is more likely to dissuade a casual attacker from escalating violence just due to its physical appearance.

Bottom line: I carry one pretty much daily. YMMV.

----
Kurt

[STR]

Even with that MBC rating the Yojimbo only has a utilitarian 2 7/8" blade. One could easily argue that it is for wood carving just as easily as self defense. It is akin to a stanley blade in the functions it could be used for by say a contractor or journeyman. It is simply a modified Wharncliff style of blade. not the type normallly associated with tactical defense knives.

I have been looking at that one myself because I just know it would wood carve very well.

[Joyce Laituri]

Hi Allen,

Good to see you here! We've been missing you and many of the original forumites we haven't seen much of lately.

We don't recommend using a Civilian for everyday cutting chores. You guys are absolutely right about the tip being fine. Without getting into specific design philosophy, the tip is ground purposely very, very thin. Certain types of cutting can take if off. Another consideration is its size. I would not carry mine to a Bronco game at Mile High Stadium unless I wanted my husband to have to come bail me out at half time- LOL.

The Yojimbo is IMO better suited as an EDC. Michael Janichs' blade design with its straight edge cuts well, keeping whatever you are cutting in contact with the edge due to the straight angle. The tip is great for initiating cuts.

If you get one of these models, let us know how it works for you?

Joyce @ Spyderco

[224477]

Hi,

if you want the knife only for defence situations, then take the civilian :cool:

If you want it also for some utility allround work, then take the Yojimbo :D

Analyse your needs and do a clever decision! :)

[denny]

I have the Yojimbo it is my favorite knife of all I have ever owned. Very sharp and whould not get you hastled by the police.

[Mr Blonde]

Please don't count on the "intimidation factor", it won't work on someone who is inebbreated or determined, and those are exactly the people in my game plan. De-escalation is something to be done through words and non-verbal communication, not by flashing a wicked blade. In my legal system (Holland) that will certianly be labeld 'escalation' and not de-escalation.

In addition, I rarely see or read about a single aggressor, there's always a couple you didn't see. Think about that when you show off that Civie!

Bottom line, get the Yojimbo! That design also gives you less lethal options, and a trainer for it will come out. And train as much as you can, and if you can't, study articles and books. Knowledge is power, not a scary looking blade. Thus ended the sermon ;)

Stay safe

Wouter

[Zoic]

Hmmm...


Please don't count on the "intimidation factor", it won't work on someone who is inebriated or determined, and those are exactly the people in my game plan. De-escalation is something to be done through words and non-verbal communication, not by flashing a wicked blade. In my legal system (Holland) that will certainly be labelled 'escalation' and not de-escalation.

The intimidation factor also will not work when using a handgun or any other knife in these same situations. However, most locals here (incorrectly) believe that the average person does not possess the cojones to use a handgun and will steer clear of a large blade much more quickly.

Basically, what I mean is that if it has come down to violence being all but inevitable, the presence of the Civi might either change the assailant's mind or at least give him reason to pause long enough for you to escape unharmed and without having to harm him/them.


In addition, I rarely see or read about a single aggressor, there's always a couple you didn't see. Think about that when you show off that Civie!

Again, or a handgun or any other knife. I think this has more to do with situational awareness than the blade you carry, though I will admit that the appearance of the Civi might have a tendency to be viewed as escalation. Your brain is still your best weapon!


Bottom line, get the Yojimbo! That design also gives you less lethal options, and a trainer for it will come out. And train as much as you can, and if you can't, study articles and books. Knowledge is power, not a scary looking blade. Thus ended the sermon ;)

I think mayhaps you are a prejudiced in your love for the Yojimbo? ;)

I need to buy one and see what the fuss is about. It looks like a well-thought-out blade design.

----
Kurt

[greencobra]

Whoa, that Civillian is a mean looking machine. I never looked at it up close until this thread and I think the perp would beat feet quickly after a glance at that blade.

Honestly, I carry an Al Mar Quicksilver for SD if I'm going into a situation when a firearm isn't in the game plan, but when things look better here on my end, I'll look more at the Civie.

I'm a firm believer in intimidation.

[Zoic]

Whoa, that Civillian is a mean looking machine. I never looked at it up close until this thread and I think the perp would beat feet quickly after a glance at that blade.

Honestly, I carry an Al Mar Quicksilver for SD if I'm going into a situation when a firearm isn't in the game plan, but when things look better here on my end, I'll look more at the Civie.

I'm a firm believer in intimidation.

Peace through superior firepower. :D

----
Kurt

[Gerard Breuker]

A knife in SD is a lethal force option. If justified I don't even want my attacker to see the blade let alone wait to see if (s)he is intimidated.

[thenick]

I would buy both of them because if I take one, I will still want the other one ;)

2 very nice knives :P

impossible to decide between those 2 :D

[greencobra]

I'm a firm believer in the Dirty Harry school of SD.

If they keep com'in for more, show em the big bore!

I would use everything in my power to make sure I was the one walking away.

[Mr Blonde]

Yes, I admit I am absolutely 'gaga' about my yojimbo. It's the best thing since (I) sliced bread (with my Li'l Temp :p)

My main point is, that with 'intimidation' you are planning for things like "most people" and "should work", I like to train and plan for "all" and "every".

The Civie is a nice and functional defensive piece of cutlery, and reportedly a fine tool for those who cant' or don't like to train much. It will work when you use it, I am sure of it. I just hate for you to use ANY blade for 'show', only to discover that your aggressor doesn't care much for the looks of your blade. That's why I like to emphasize practice and training.

Self defense is a nice study to most and fierce religion to some. There are many schools of thought. "Intimidation" is one of them, I am not a member of that school. I believe that all defensive techniques, strategies, tactics and tools should be felt/experienced and not seen. I like my sparring partners and attackers suprised (and medium rare BTW :D ) rather than prepared. Just a different viewpoint, which I hope will help you not only to choose a knife (you should get both anyways! ;) ), but that it will also help you to stay healthy and make many more posts on this forum.

Wouter

[cdf]

Since an EDC is used 99.99999 % of the time for utility , I'd go Yojimbo .A civilian is nearly useless for most utility applications , most LEO's would be creeped out by it and you would likley end up in the back of a squad car .

[Civilian]

A knife in SD is a lethal force option. If justified I don't even want my attacker to see the blade let alone wait to see if (s)he is intimidated.
I agree and in my hands a civilian is going to do way more damage. I know it will cut to the bone(literly).

[dragn_flame]

Here in michigan, we have a 3" blade limit, so theres that, plus here in detroit if you pull a weapon & don't use it immediately, your gonna get laughed at & dis-armed ! I've had some mbc ( arnis, kali, pencak silat ), I would get the yojimbo, take some classes or attend a seminar, learn about pressure points & soft targets, W/ the yojimbo, you can use it effectively w/ the blade closed to suppliment your fist ( not sure about forum rules so I'll leave it at that ), only opening the blade in a life or death situation
I wouldn't bet my life on "intimidation"
As soon as I get over my current " buying attack " lol, you ppl have convinced me to buy a yojimbo

[Dr. Snubnose]

Just going to add my 2 cents worth since I have both the Civilian and the Yojimbo. For a long time I carried the Civilian in my left front jeans pocket. It was carried only for SD, as it was not designed for everyday chores. I agree with the sentiment posted by some that a Knife use for defensive purposes should never be seen only felt by the would be attacker. I wouldn't say I was of the school that a knife should be used as an intimidating device, but I must say in one personal confrontation with a... (lets just call em a low life street punk and thug) who pulled what seemed to be a Cold Steel Voyerger (looked like the three inch tanto style blade) and demanded money, when I stepped back and opened my Civilian his eyes bugs out and he did do a rather quick turn about and ran for the hills. BTW... what he didn't see... because he was watching my Civilian snap open was that my right hand was inside my coat pocket wrapping around the grip of a Smith and Wesson 340PD, a Snubnose loaded with (5)357 Magnums, which had he advanced one more step in my direction he would have been shot right through my coat pocket. I mention this story because I believe certain knife styles and blade configurations can look scary enough to make a BG change his mind. I even think sometimes that a knife has greater scare value then a firearm as most people can not associate the feelings of being shot but most have experienced being cut at one time or another in their lives. The Civilian fits the bill for one scary looking knife. Though it was not my intention during the robbery attempt to intimidate my attacker only to distract him long enough to reach for my firearm...the Civilian did seem to do that... That being said my Civilian now rests in it's special zippered knife case in my safe and the left pocket of my jeans is reserved for the Yojimbo. Both are very fine knives for SD work. For me the nods goes to the Yojimbo over the Civilian because in IMHO it has superior cutting ability, it can be manipulated much quicker than the Civilian as I may choose to change blade directions very fast, for use against multiple targets on my opponets body. The Yojimbo blade design allows the entire blade lenght to come in complete contact with the targets. The Yojimbo has going for it the fact that it can also be used to stab. I have been doing some testing with this knife on some rather large chunks of meat (provided by a student of mine who is a butcher by trade) and it makes one nasty comma cut after the thrust. One would be hard pressed to do much of anything but cut and slash with the Civilian. The grip of the Yojimbo is designed better for retention as the emphasis is place on the last three fingers of the hand to hold a knife secure during combat and the design is perfect for that purpose. Do I miss carry a scary looking knife that will make people's eye bugs out when seeing it....nawwwww...I carry a Chinook II in the right pocket for SD and every day chores. Like someone already said...get both...you'll be sorry if you have one and not the other, cause only you can decide what is the best knife for your intended purpose. Sorry for the long post...hope I have been of some help to you....whatever your decision use your new knife or knives in the best of heath......Doc

[DAYWALKER]

Aloha Allen!

Hmmmmm...full on SD use, ANY knife CAN be used if the user knows what they're doing. :D

I agree w/ Wouter on the "intimidation factor"...that does NOT work all the time, nor does it present itself on cue. Before ya know it, all hell breaks loose, then after the fact, it's like, "The guy was cutting me with THAT?!" God forbid you should ever find yourself in such a situation Allen...

On that note, I say Yojimbo...The shape of the Civi is more towards my liking, but it screams out "SPOOKY"!!! :p The Yoji' looks like a big utility knife...Plus, the blade length on it is "passable" for "utility usage"... ;)

Take care and God bless you man! :cool:

[greencobra]

I'm not blessed with the reflexes for finding pressure points during an encounter with someone with less than friendly intentions. But i am blessed with a permit to carry and do and will not hesitate to use it if pushed far enough that my life is in danger. I am also blessed with a level head and will try to defuse the situation or back away before taking action because I'm well aware of the consequences after the fact. If a perp is close enough to me where we're wrestling around doing wax on, wax off, he's too close and the situation needs to end.

[Michael Cook]

21 feet in 3 seconds...

[Qship]

I carry two Yojimbos for three reasons. First, I prefer to rely on capability rather than intimidation, and the Yojimbo is purpose designed to be a fighter. It has amazing cutting ability, and a long list of features a skilled knife fighter wants.

Second, the Yojimbo is a very good utility knife. While I strongly believe in training to use any knife, there is an advantage to defending yourself with the knife you use daily, because the knife is familiar. In a sense, every day chores are training. For example, opening a package is an exercise in putting the point exactly where you want the point to be.

Third, while the Civilian does a nice job on a draw cut, I also need to be able to work with the point. As an example, in extreme circumstances, stabbing a knife under the sternum and dropping your weight until the blade hits the pelvic bone tends to be a threat eliminator.

That said, for absolutely untrained people, a hawkbill design may be best. Graciela Casillas-Boggs designed a knife somewhat similar to the Civilian (the LadyHawk). She was interested in designing a knife an untrained woman could use naturally. An untrained person with a hawkbill can do a lot of damage just by flailing away at an attacker.

Qship

[AllenETreat]

Well, all. It's been years since I had a permit to carry.


But I like the advice : Joyce I wasn't looking at it for utility, which
make's me look harder at the Yojimbo ( which is basically a folding
Ronin ) and as I can't carry a "neck knife" here in good ol' New Haven, and
blade length is a problem with the local gendarmes. A Yojimbo in black
look's to be my choice. And who can argue with Michael Janich?

Thanks for the replies.

AET :D

[dialex]

Hi Allen, my old friend :)
The Yojimbo seems just fine. It is strong, reliable and the full flat grind blade makes for a great slicer. The only drawback I see it's that it opens much too easily when carried tip up and this could make for a dangerous (for the bearer) EDC :(

[paulks]

I carry a Yojimbo daily and have not had a problem with the blade opening in my pocket.

[AllenETreat]

Another choice I was thinking of was the DoDo SE in black. I'm
impartial to PE and love the :spyder: "reverse "s" " The DoDo
isn't as creepy as the civilian, nor has that excessive blade length.
The final choice may be the DoDo, which, IMO is a real
"work of art" being designed by Eric Glesser. Well, as of this post, I got
11 days to figure it out.

AET :D

Although the Yojimbo is still right up there. ;)

[Zoic]

The Dodo is a great choice for both EDC and SD. The short blade admittedly lends itself to being very sheeple-friendly. I prefer the PE just from a utilitarian EDC cutting standpoint, but the SE is fantastic also. Good choice!

----
Kurt

[CKE]

Hey Allen:)

Glad to see you back. You can't go wrong with either the Yojimbo or Dodo. I have carried both and they are both excellent users. In a SD situation nothing works as fast as my legs :D Take Care!!!!

[dhpd9807]

I own and have carried both knives, I love the civi but ditched it due to blade length and tip down carry. I have been carrying the Yojimbo as ED/SD since I got it some time ago and am very pleased w/ it.

Jeff

[Mr Blonde]

The Dodo and the Yojimbo supplement eachother very well. In fact, for those situations where a smaller knife is needed, I replace my Yojimbo with a dodo. I really think of the Dodo as the Yojimbo jr.....with a Reverse-S twist!

Wouter

[DAYWALKER]

Aloha Allen!

NOW we're talking!!! Got the Dodo last month, found it VERY handy for both SD and utility use. In my review of this knife, i mentioned that I liked it due to being familiar with the blade shape...Anyway, one of the better SD/Utility knives out IMHO ;)

God bless :cool:

[Michael Cook]

I own and have carried both knives, I love the civi but ditched it due to blade length and tip down carry. I have been carrying the Yojimbo as ED/SD since I got it some time ago and am very pleased w/ it.

Jeff
My civvy came pre-drilled so I switched the clip for tip up. Yours has no holes?