The next step in super-legal folder design.

[Carlos]

One problem that Canadians have, and one that is coming to the States, are laws prohibiting any knife that can be opened (from the locked position) with a flick of the wrist. Of course we all know that any folder can be opened this way if you have the knack for doing so, so it seems like we need a solution that will actually prevent folders from opening due to centrifugal force, by intent or accident.



Any thoughts?



My own idea (previously mentioned) was for folders that would be locked in the closed position. Ideally one would be able to hold a release switch and thumb open the knife simultaneously -- thus losing no time in opening the the knife. Such a thing would also technically be safer to the user since the folder could not swing open accidently in the pocket.

[knifenerd]

Carlos

This is becoming a very pressing issue in California. I'm sure you have seen the various threads concerning this .

Any knife that can be opened with a flick of the wrist could subject it's owner to arrest and prosecution.

Could be that the new CRKT Bladelock might become a big seller in Cal.

Spyderco---keep your ear to the ground on this one!

Dick

[chinook]

Maybe a variation on the Centofante Securlock which locks the blade in the open position could be redesigned to lock it in the closed position instead of or in addition to.
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Butt, actually that is only for safety's sake, once the switch is activated or disengaged then friction and inertia are going to determine if the blade can be swung open. Sounds like they are out to get rid of onehand opening folders, period.


Edited by - Chinook on 6/2/2001 9:54:30 AM

[Carlos]

Hi Dick and Chinook,

Perhaps locking closed would need to be combined with a stronger form of detent that would make flicking more difficult. I was thinking of the "New York" triggers that some Police have on their Glocks which dramatically increases the force required for a trigger pull.

Half of the virtue of a "locking closed" mechanism means that unless you know how to release the lock, you can't open the knife by any means. Even an officer who is checking to see if your knife flicks (and has the knack) will be blocked by the lock unless he is familiar with the knife -- it would just appear to be very resistant to flicking. A lock also reduces easy "flickability," so to speak, by adding another operation to the opening process. If a well integrated design, the two operations of unlocking and thumbing open should flow together naturally.

[cerulean]

Interesting topic, Carlos.

A prosecutor could argue that even if the knife locks closed, it can still be flicked open because you can just unlock it, then flick it open. I know it's an underhanded argument, but they wouldn't be above using it.

For example: in Colorado, along with many other places, butterfly knives are basically illegal because they are considered to be "gravity knives". The definition of a gravity knife is a knife that can be opened with centrifugal force, but butterfly knives can't be opened with cenrifugal force alone; they lock in the closed postition, so you must first unlock them before you can flick the blade open.

Also, even if you have a stronger detent, an overzealous police officer or DA could probably still overcome it with enough centrifugal force. The laws are just so poorly written that, if you interpret them literally, it would be very difficult to make a folding knife that can't be opened with a flick of the wrist, provided you use enough force and have the right technique.

I'm not sure how you can make a one-hand opening folder undeniably legal. Maybe you could have a folder where the blade basically locks in place in all postitions from opened to closed unless you operate some sort of device. I'm envisioning something like where the tang of the blade has notched teeth and you can press a button on the handle to operate a series of gears that will open and close the blade. It's absurdly inefficient, but maybe you could have a little lever on the handle that you pump up and down with your thumb to turn a cog wheel that opens the blade, and the cog wheel can't move unless you operate the lever.

I know it's silly, but these laws are pretty silly. <img src="smile.gif" width=15 height=15 align=middle>

Edited by - cerulean on 6/4/2001 12:42:25 AM

[Carlos]

Hi Cerulean,

I agree that if they really want to get you, they will find a way. My own concepts were for reducing easy &quot;flickability,&quot; since I dont know how to stop it -- perhaps someone else will have a better notion.

Your mention of gears gave me another idea -- a kind of pivot &quot;clutch.&quot; The more force exerted on the blade (beyond a certain level of force), the more it resists opening. In other words, a light push with your thumb and the blade swings freely into the open position, but exert a hard centrifigal force and the clutch holds the blade in the closed position. Effectively the blade would have a maximum opening speed that could not be exceeded. Perhaps more sci-fi than real world -- for now. <img src="wink.gif" width=15 height=15 align=middle>

Edited by - Carlos on 6/4/2001 6:30:31 AM

[sal]

Hi guys. fun topic. Actually Spyderco has been on this one for more than 10 years. We even hired a Canadian lawyer to get us an audience with the Canadian Crown...which we did...another long story.

We have a machine in our R%D that measures the amount of force required to open a blade. An attempt to get a number to design and build to.

I have a story that I like to use. &quot;When you go to a store to buy a drill, you don't want a drill...what you want is a hole. Try to keep sight on the goal.

The problem that is trying to be avoided is; A law enforcement professional's concern that a suspect, being questioned, can produce from a closed hand an instant blade capable of lethal damage to the law enforcement prossional.

Laws against flick, auto, one hand, etc. are all ways of trying to solve this problem.

That they are not truly realistic solutions is because they are lawmakers, not knife experts, and their ability to truly understand the problem is too distant from the problem.

AKTI has tried to rewrite the law in California (which is the 2nd time this law is being re-written)in an effort to try to keep one handers from being declared illegal.

I can find arguments for and against a number of solutions, but none so far that is in total accord with 1) the problem, 2)the knife collector/carrier 3)reality.

sal

[cerulean]

Thanks for the info, Sal. That's very interesting stuff.

I really like the clutch idea, Carlos. It's pretty sophisticated machinery to put into a knife, but I think it could work. That actually might be the best way to make a folder absolutely legal, yet still easy to open with one hand.

Edited by - cerulean on 6/4/2001 1:01:46 PM