How many of you carry pepper spray?

[AllenETreat]

I carry the usual 10% OC spray as a deterrent to using deadly
force. As justifiable lethal force under the law is a sticky subject
I'd rather not venture into the "I'd rather be judged by twelve than carried by
six" rule ( most cases don't reach a jury by reality and are plea bargained
with the State's attorney )

So how many of you law enforcement & civilian types opt for pepper spray?


AET :D

[224477]

Hello AET,

I am no LEO, but carry "CR" spray, it is known as Mk.36 Dispenser, available everywhere only for LEO and military.. And me.. :D ;)
It is nowhere sold for the civil market. For more information I suggest to google "CR gas" or "CR tear gas". Works imposantly ;)

[WORKER#9]

I Sometimes Carry It. #9

[greencobra]

No Allen, I can't say I've ever carried it. Although working in a gun shop for a while, I've sold a lot of it.

It use to have a shelf life with a date on it and I'm wondering if it still does.

Getting back to carrying it, you're right, with the legalities of using lethal force now, it does demand a look.

If you've read any posts I've made on the subject, I'm a proponent of self defence with a firearm. I have been trained, practice often with a variety of firearms, and have had it pounded into me that you do not draw or even make your firearms presence known unless youself, or someone else, are in eminent mortal danger and you intend to use it.

Lethal force is a very fine line to walk, indeed, and I doubt a jury of my peers could do it. Your observations have merit.

[Dr. Snubnose]

I don't like the sprays I find them not to be effective against a determined attacker but for whats its worth...Don't buy one of the tiny key-chain sprays. If you are serious about self-defense, buy a dispenser that is two to three ounces in size (60 to 90 grams). It contains more OC (Oleoresin Capsicum…the main ingredient) and more propellant to push the spray out toward your attacker. Ideally, you should buy three cans of spray. The first one is used for practice so you know what it does (a self-defense instructor could help you with this). The second can is for you to carry for a year. The third can replaces the second can of spray, which you will again practice with at the end of the first year.
Spray is a better option than foam for most civilian and law enforcement usage. Consider foam only if you are in an environment where the spray would cause decontamination problems (health care institutions, for example). Generally look for a "fogger" or "cone" type spray rather than a "streamer". Streamers require greater accuracy than is usually practical. Do not be persuaded by the percentage of OC in the spray since the Scoville Heat Units (SHU) rating determines the "heat" of the pepper. It does not take a particularly high SHU to be effective. The percent of OC rating (usually 5 or 10%) indicates the relative length of time the spray may incapacitate the attacker.
As with any force option, training and preparedness are vital...Doc

[Ted]

Pepperspray is considered a weapon in the Netherlands...

[WOTANSON1]

Not since I left Brooklyn :D

Rob

[Joe Talmadge]

I carry pepper spray occasionally. I carry Fox, which is much hotter than the 10% formulations out there. Although the evidence is only anecdotal, there are loads and loads of stories from LEOs who describe a difference in effectiveness when they go from their standard 10%/2M-SHU to Fox.

One thing we know about pepper spray is that it doesn't work on everyone. As a result, I don't think you should ever expect anything when you spray it -- don't be surprised if the bad guy walks through it. Be prepared for that eventuality, and already be taking action (evasive or offensive) as you spray. I think of pepper spray as a really good jab in boxing: sometimes it'll knock someone down, sometimes the guy will walk right through it, but a good deal of time it will make someone blink and give you a moment's edge to step out or in.

Joe

[Mariner]

When my wife and I take an evening walk in the park (my house backs onto park land), I carry a small 12 g spray container of "BODYGUARD, Animal Attack Repellant". Some dogs are allowed to run free in the park, and they are not all friendly.

Silly thing in Canada is, pepper spray is legal when sold as an animal repellent, but a prohibited weapon when sold as pepper spray. In Canada, if the label doesn't state it's for use on animals, it's illegal to own (deemed a "prohibited device") under our Criminal Code. Kinda reinforces the importance of always checking the label before you buy.

[Michael Cook]

:spyder: No. the results are too iffy. To me aerosol spray defences are for people who don't really want to train effective self defence. Too much work. :spyder:

[Glock27]

I don't carry Pepper Spray......but I almost always have a Glock with me.
Bet you can't guess which model :D
G27

[ken]

Hi Allen,

Don't use the stuff but I can see it being useful if you go for walks with loose dogs out and about.....your probably likely to get attacked by a dog than a person.

I remember one day when I was at work the gas and electric guy was reading the meter (had to come in th back yard) well the wife's chow cornered the guy and he gave it a dose of spray. Well when I got home I called the dog over and gave it a hug and kiss on the head....I can tell you that stuff works and works and works....good thing I didn't have an itch somewhere!

What do you think of those electric stun guns?

ken

[LONE WOLF]

I carried a little can of it once, but now I just carry a knife. I have read quite a few accounts of pepperspray not working.

[Thomaz]

I use to carry a stun gun, a Spyderco´s Endura Black, a telecopic tatical batton and a Astra .380 ACP pistol with 2 magazines 9 round each full. When walking with my dog - a Bear coated Sharpey I prefer to carry a PeperSpray :D

[WORKER#9]

Of All The Naysayers Who Here Has Been Sprayed With Pepper Spray? And Really Knows What It Is Like. Anyone Been Sprayed.

[tortoise]

Anyone Been Sprayed.
Many times, in training, when playing around (don't try this at home) and in the real world as incidental to the guy that someone else was actually trying to spray. -Actually that way far more than any other, happens all the time.

[Glock27]

Of All The Naysayers Who Here Has Been Sprayed With Pepper Spray? And Really Knows What It Is Like. Anyone Been Sprayed.

I have. I had to take direct hits to become certified and yearly to become re-certified to carry it when I was a reserve deputy sheriff. It *always* effected me.....an intense white hot burning sensation in my eyes. Picture substituting Tobasco sauce for eye drops. I'd have buckets of syliva(?sp). I'd spend 30 minutes washing my face off in the shower. I concur that spray is much better than foam. I had foam get stopped by my glasses....threw 'em off and was good to go.
BUT...I've also seen 2 subjects take direct hits with spray and not have it phase them the slightest bit. One particular male in his late 20's took a full can with no effect...and then it took 4 of us to get him cuffed. Meth does strange things to people.

[Joe Talmadge]

I have. I had to take direct hits to become certified and yearly to become re-certified to carry it when I was a reserve deputy sheriff. It *always* effected me.....an intense white hot burning sensation in my eyes. Picture substituting Tobasco sauce for eye drops. I'd have buckets of syliva(?sp). I'd spend 30 minutes washing my face off in the shower. I concur that spray is much better than foam. I had foam get stopped by my glasses....threw 'em off and was good to go.
BUT...I've also seen 2 subjects take direct hits with spray and not have it phase them the slightest bit. One particular male in his late 20's took a full can with no effect...and then it took 4 of us to get him cuffed. Meth does strange things to people.

Moreover, Modern Warrior did a well-publicized OC test that should be required reading. First, they got some volunteers to take a spray to the face. Everyone who did pretty much were unable to do anything. Then, they changed the game -- the "victims" were given a goal to accomplish after they'd gotten sprayed. I don't remember the goal, it was something like walk around a table and take a bill out of someone's pocket. 100% of the people took the spray to the face and then accomplished the task.

So, how come OC demolishes you when you're just standing there, but you can fight through it if you have a goal set? Well, because having a goal changes everything. And a bad guy who wants to do bad things to you -- does he have a goal? Yes indeedy!

Again, I think it's best to think of OC as something that's most likely going to give you a moment's edge to run away or attack, and much less likely to just knock the fight out of the bad guy. If it does knock the fight out of him, great; but your strategy should be to take advantage of the fact that the bad guy will likely blink, tear up, and have to re-orient himself. Be prepared if he walks through it though.

[224477]

Anyone Been Sprayed?


YUP, I wanted to "check the flow" and sprayed with the wind... :rolleyes: But the wind changed direction.. :rolleyes: In the half of my face... :eek:
VERY INTERESTING.. :o
Another mate from me closed his windows and sprayed his room, run through the cloud and then almost felt unconscious.. :confused: :eek: :confused:
I told him to be "(bad word)", he was alone and if something went wrong there wasnt anybody to call for him EMTs.
But I guess it was a good info for him, for ever..

[Michael Cook]

:spyder: Funniest thing I ever saw on cops was a perp being held down by 4 leo's when he says "I eat pepper spray, you (blanking) pigs!" and then he did. :p :spyder:

[Dr. Snubnose]

Yep...Been sprayed on more than one occasion...Part of the training and I won't ask my people to do anything I won't do) Intense Stinging in the eyes has always been the most significant symptom for me. However, even after taking a direct hit everytime I was still able to function and take the sprayer out of the picture. I find the spray is much more effective against dogs as their olfactory senses are right up front and more sensitive then ours...Doc

[hannes w]

I regularly carry a can of Fox Lab 5.3 Mio. SHU medium cone together with a knife and a flashlight. A CCW-permit is not really obtainable here in Austria so this is the next best thing to it.

As much as the weapon law sucks in Austria, knife-wise it's like paradise you can streetcarry just any kind of knife:

switchblades
balisongs
pushdaggers
gravity knives
folders &
fixed blades with no size limit

it just doesn't matter. :D

g

hannes

[224477]

I regularly carry a can of Fox Lab 5.3 Mio. SHU medium cone together with a knife and a flashlight. A CCW-permit is not really obtainable here in Austria so this is the next best thing to it.

As much as the weapon law sucks in Austria, knife-wise it's like paradise you can streetcarry just any kind of knife:

switchblades
balisongs
pushdaggers
gravity knives
folders &
fixed blades with no size limit

it just doesn't matter. :D

g

hannes

You just got to HOPE strongly that your politicians WONT get inspired by "deutscher Nachbarn" ... ;)
We also still have liberal law considering knives :)

[dialex]

I still have a small can of spray (don't know the type, it's black, it says something like "1 billion" and the German flag and eagle on it) forgotten in a drawer. I keep it for memorabilia purposes, as it was a present from a former friend of mine. Boy, that girl really knew how to indulge me, she also gave me a Rambo custom knife on my birthday :D

[Ted]

... that girl really knew how to indulge me, she also gave me a Rambo custom knife on my birthday :D

that's called true love ;)

[PERTINAX]

Moreover, Modern Warrior did a well-publicized OC test that should be required reading. First, they got some volunteers to take a spray to the face. Everyone who did pretty much were unable to do anything. Then, they changed the game -- the "victims" were given a goal to accomplish after they'd gotten sprayed. I don't remember the goal, it was something like walk around a table and take a bill out of someone's pocket. 100% of the people took the spray to the face and then accomplished the task.

So, how come OC demolishes you when you're just standing there, but you can fight through it if you have a goal set? Well, because having a goal changes everything. And a bad guy who wants to do bad things to you -- does he have a goal? Yes indeedy!

Again, I think it's best to think of OC as something that's most likely going to give you a moment's edge to run away or attack, and much less likely to just knock the fight out of the bad guy. If it does knock the fight out of him, great; but your strategy should be to take advantage of the fact that the bad guy will likely blink, tear up, and have to re-orient himself. Be prepared if he walks through it though.

Well said! I have carried it as a LEO for the past 9 years and have seen it work extremely well. I have seen it also not work extremely well. It should be considered as just another tool in your array of seld-defence options.

[rastus]

Back in the mid-'80's (I think), my downstairs neighbor asked me to come down and check something out. I went on down and he told me that he had a "new thing" that he was going to make a mint on ($$) :rolleyes: . I said OK, lets see it, and he showed me a small spray can. He said this stuff will knock you right on your a$$, and went on about it for about 5 min. It was football day, and we both had our beer, mine in a cooler, so I asked him if he wanted a pizza. We ordered delivery. I took a can of the pepper spray and sprayed the smallest spot I could on the wall outside. Sniffed, touched it and sniffed my finger, then tasted it. It wasn't that hot. Well our pizza got there and before he could stop me, I sprayed the whole thing, but good. He freaked and ran out of the room, but came back when he saw that I was ok. Then he really got mad, demanded that I buy him another pizza so I did. While we were waiting, I ate most of the pepper-sprayed pizza, much to his horror. He then told me that I was an alien from some planet I'd never heard of.
This explains a lot.... :D
---Tom

[Rob]

I ate most of the pepper-sprayed pizza, much to his horror.

:eek: I think that is one of the most funniest sentences I've ever read :D

BTW, spraying people might cause interesting reactions but how about spraying dogs? Has anybody tried that stuff on an aggressive dog? How do they react?

I usually carry a can of OC when I'm on nightshift. To many weirdos come out when it's getting dark...

Cheers, Rob

[David Lowry]

I don't carry it.

I used to have a Stun gun (the kind with the 9v battery). I thought it would work well but then I saw a buddy of mine push the stun gun into his leg and hit the switch. He was like "see.....not a problem". I however did it to myself for a second and it hurt and made me very uncomfortable. My buddy also then put it on his forearm and shocked himself for about 10 seconds and it didn't even phase him.

So now I carry my 2 fists, a Yojimbo, and a Victorinox SAK. :) The most important part of the picture are my Adidas. :D

[Vincent]

I think its illegal in NY.


wouldent have a need for it anyway.

[Jimd]

Of All The Naysayers Who Here Has Been Sprayed With Pepper Spray? And Really Knows What It Is Like. Anyone Been Sprayed.

I've been trained with it, and have been sprayed with it (we have to be sprayed in order to qualify).

Pepper spray does not stop me, it pisses me off very badly and makes me want to hurt the person doing the spraying very badly.

Sometimes the stuff works, and sometimes it doesn't. One major problem: it often fails on EDPs (Emotionally Disturbed Persons), drunks, and people under the influence of drugs. Who do we usually have the most problems from? EDPs, drunks, and druggies. ;)

I've seen pepper spray fail to affect people on a number of occasions. In my opinion, it's not really all that effective in stopping determined attackers. If someone's coming for you in a rage, intent on doing you harm...well, you might be better served with a different method of defense.

Now...it often can be useful as a distraction, in that if the bad guy's eyes are affected, you can maneuver, deliver strikes, or get away.

A few problems:
--The aerosol fogger units are seriously affected if there's any wind in the area...trust me, I know from personal experience when we sprayed a guy one day during a fight on duty, and the stuff came back in my face.
--The stream units generally have a longer range than the foggers, and are more effective in wind.

OC is nice to have if you have the time to deploy it, and if it works, and if you have room to tote it around.

With all that said, I do not carry it off duty.

[cdf]

I carry the 5% version sold in Canada as dog repellent . I dont count on it , but it could buy time to land a blow , or egress .

Chris

[Episteme]

I used to carry a 4 oz. canister of Fox Labs capsicum spray in my right-front pocket. It got to be quite uncomfortable, so I switched to Mace brand 10 % pocket sized carry with the flip-top. These days, I do not carry capsicum spray for a number of reasons:
1. I carry too many things on my person as it is on a daily basis (cell-phone, two folders, wallet, keys with photon and ladybug, Victorinox Soldier SAK). A canister of O.C. takes up substantial pocket space, not to mention my pants start to get very heavy.
2. O.C., although effective on many people, is not as reliable a 'stopper' as I would need if I were to justify in adding extra items to my daily carry. The cost / benifit analysis to carrying O.C. everyday does not work out in favor of carrying.
3. I have come to view O.C. spray as more applicable to law enforcement, as it seems to function more as an arrest-aid than a defensive weapon for civilian carry.
These just happen to be my observations and thoughts. I do, however, have a canister of Def-Tec (Defense Technologies) in my automobile.
Mike