More Meat Tests Native SE vs PE and a few more

[Dr. Snubnose]

At the request of Ghostrider, he wanted a side by side meat test between the Native PE and SE. I e-mailed a friend who has the Native III PE to ask if he would lend it to me for testing ( I don't own one ) he called this morn to let me know that he'd be passing by my work place and would drop it off, which allowed me to do the test this evening and also test a few more knives as well. (Much Thanks to Steve,{Proud owner of the NativeIII PE} as he will be lurking here as a guest interested in the results as well)

Test procedures were as follows:In Meat test #1 I use a seamed eye round roast that measured 11" long that was 6 " round, left in it's orginal packaging and wrapped with additional saran wrap, 4 layers, (to simulate the resistence of skin) and stuffed it inside a Denim Jeans Pant leg. A quick downward slash cut was made using 7 spydercos to measure the depths of the cuts. In Meat Test #2 I thrusted into the roast with each knife and pulled forcefully downwards quickly until resistence was encountered. I measured the lenght and depth of each stab/cut. Then in the third test I made a Hard and Fast Horizontal slash across the belly of the roast and measured the depth of the cuts. The results were as follows:

Native SE Test#1: 2" depth, Test#2: 2" depth -1 1/2" Long, Test #3: 1 1/2" depth
Native PE Test#1:2 3/4"depth, Test#2: 3"depth -5 1/2" Long, Test#3: 2 3/4" depth
some other knives:
CentofanteIII PE: Test #1: 2 1/2"depth, Test#2: 2 3/4" depth -7" Long, Test# 3: 2 1/2" depth
Kiwi SS PE Test#1: 1" ,Test #2: 1" depth-2"Long, Test#3: 1 1/4" depth
Karambit PE: Test#1: (Tip up) 2 1/2" depth, Test#2: (tip down for thrust and drawn upwards) 2 1/2" depth -6 1/2" long, Test#3: (tip up) 2 3/4" depth
Spyderfly: Test #1: 2 1/2" depth, Test#2: 3 1/2" depth-3 1/4" long, Test#3: 2 1/4 depth
Endura SS PE: Test #1: 2 1/4" depth, Test#2: 3 1/2 depth -5 1/2" long, Test#3: 2 3/4" depth....Doc

[DAYWALKER]

Aloha Dr. Snubnose!

Very interesting...the two Natives were pretty close aside from test #2, huh? I can't believe that the Kiwi even beat out the Native SE? :eek: Wow...did the Native SE catch on a seam or something? :confused: The diff between the Natives was pretty big in test #2.

How's that there CentoIII in test #2? WooHoo!!! Like a laser, huh? ;)

Keep them butchers in business and test safely! God bless :cool:

[Dr. Snubnose]

Aloha Dr. Snubnose!

Very interesting...the two Natives were pretty close aside from test #2, huh? I can't believe that the Kiwi even beat out the Native SE? :eek: Wow...did the Native SE catch on a seam or something? :confused: The diff between the Natives was pretty big in test #2.

How's that there CentoIII in test #2? WooHoo!!! Like a laser, huh? ;)

Keep them butchers in business and test safely! God bless :cool:
Daywalker my friend:
Nope... the Native SE only got caught up in the meat went through the denim with ease... I'm still cursing the CentofanteIII...did zip through like a laser and it bit me bad while cleaning little pieces of meat from the lock work. The Centofante and the Karambit impressed me the most this time around, I felt like no resistence from either on contact with the meat. They aren't Yojimbo's or Ronin's but a close second in performance....Doc :D

[DAYWALKER]

Aloha Dr. Snubnose!

Okay, I am glad that you're keeping it "real". ;)

Sir, ya don't gotta tell me about the abilities of the CentoIII and the Karambit! Do take care of that :spyder: bite and "hang on"!!! :)

God bless :cool:

[Irish Lager]

thanks doc,
as always youre test has inspired me to purchase another spydie. i think this time i have to go for a native pe. my dodo should be here today, or any day now. just hope it arrives before my vacation. have you done any tests on the dodo yet? if so what was the result and your overall opinion? Se or Pe? Mine is a blue pe, so it should be pretty sweet. take care,
GS

[i.v]

thanks for the tests doc!
my surprised me was that the PE native actually did pretty well, both natives have thick spinse & deep hollow grinds which should make it pretty east for them to make long shallow cuts but certainly not cut well after a deep thrust.
the centofante is impressive as ever.. at this rate i may just go out & get one :p
that karambit is a dangerous one isn't it?

[Dr. Snubnose]

GuidedSeries: Sorry I don't have a Dodo, no plans for getting one real soon either, but others seem to really like it.

IV: The CentofanteIII PE has really impressed me also, even the Vesuvius CE that I bought back awhile did well in the previous tests, and I always hear people saying ...the blade is too small, the lock work not strong enough,the spine is not heavy enough for serious cutting etc. etc. Just hasn't been my experience...I Like the knife's performance...it's that simple....The karambit... :eek: even scares me :eek: :eek: :eek: ....
Doc

[224477]

Doc.,

but isnt the blade of the Cento III too slim? Only 2 mm of VG10, wont brake it by heavy use? (Fast hard stabs, you hit a bone or rib, etc...) :confused:
On the other hand, I was also looking into one of them for a while because the appearance is awesome, but it was the thin blade that was holding me back. But its beautiful. :)

[ghostrider]

Thanks for the test Doc. I think the main idea was to see a difference, side-by-side, of a like model knife, between Plain Edge, and Serrated Edge. The Native seemed like a good choice, IMO, because out of the ones the Doc tested previously, the Native and Jester only offered both blade configs.

The results between the two Natives appear to support the results of my MBC Poll. That is: the majority of the people who participated prefer a polished, plain edge over a toothy plain edge, or even a serrated edge.

IMHO, just as Doc indicated, this test is even further testament to capabilities of the Ronin, and Yojimbo.

Thanks also to Doc’s friend Steve who helped make this happen.

[Dr. Snubnose]

224477, I don't know...I have never broken the blade on the Centofante...lets look out it this way...the Spyderfly, Scorpious and Karambit all 2.5mm...sure the big MBC knives are all 4mm...but I don't think I would have problems with breakage on thrusting workouts with any of the 2mm or 2.5mm knives...Doc

[Michael Cook]

that karambit is a dangerous one isn't it?
:spyder: HA HA! dangerous to wielder and target alike! :p :spyder:

[WORKER#9]

GOOD TEST DOC, AND REMEMBER NEVER EAT YOUR TEST! :eek:

[Dr. Snubnose]

LOL Worker #9 :D I remembered! :eek: This one could have been sishkabob for sure ;) ...Doc

[Joyce Laituri]

Thank you Snubnose and (your friend) Steve too.

Very interesting test. Michael Janich also does something like this in his training class, not to measure cut depth but more to give the cutter an understanding of what it feels like to cut flesh. He calls his test subject Pork Man and like you, uses a large, thick roast, wrapped around a broom stick to simulate bone. He tightly wraps it in saran wrap to give the feel of skin and lets his students take a slash at it. It is mind boggling what one swipe with a Delica does to Pork Man. Personally I never realized the cutting power in a sharp, well made folder.

Thanks for the test. Keep us updated when/if you do more.

Joyce @ Spyderco

[Dr. Snubnose]

Will do Joyce! ;) I plan to have lots of tests in the future...cause my future plans lots of new Spyderco's...I always test my knives on Meat...so I will keep everyone well informed...Thanks for your input and I have seen a video clip of Michael doing the Pork Man thing with just a .99 cent utility knife box cutter....awesome....gives one a new prospective of a bladed weapons cutting power....Doc

[Jimd]

Doc, thanks for your testing, it's informative and interesting to see the results.
I'm still a Native fan, by the way, :) despite it's lackluster meat-cutting results.

The Dodo would also be a great self-defense cutter, very strong. Though it's blade is not very long, so the cuts would be shallow, and very little stabbing benefit. Still, for areas that don't allow long blades to be legally carried, the Dodo would be tons better than no knife at all.

Unfortunately, I've seen the results of home-made knives on human flesh too many times. I have to say, though, that as gruesome as this experience has been, it's never failed to be....interesting, shall we say. Almost had a few of them tested on my flesh, as well. That was not so interesting.

[224477]

224477, I don't know...I have never broken the blade on the Centofante...lets look out it this way...the Spyderfly, Scorpious and Karambit all 2.5mm...sure the big MBC knives are all 4mm...but I don't think I would have problems with breakage on thrusting workouts with any of the 2mm or 2.5mm knives...Doc

thanks for the answer Doc. I dunno still, as I have handled the CentoIII to me it looked very fragile, because of that 2mm, maybe just me :confused: :rolleyes: On the other hand for a NON SD EDC it must be wonderfull, but I usually prefer a knife which is also capable of MBC, although it dont have to be a "full-time" fighter.

Have you made the test even with Caly Jr. FRN? I edc this one also, would like to hear the "posibilities"... :D

Regards,
J.

[Michael Cook]

...The Dodo would also be a great self-defense cutter, very strong. Though it's blade is not very long, so the cuts would be shallow, and very little stabbing benefit...
:spyder: Not so shallow! I've done meat tests with my dodo on roast beefs at the sub shop where I wage slave. :p The cuts were all deeper than the second knuckle of my index finger (how's that for scientific.)
That much depth in a perpendicular cut across the bicep, tricep, quadricep or flexor tendons should get the job done without the need for a whole lot of stabbing. Stabbing is not the best stopping technique with a blade anyway. :spyder:

[Dr. Snubnose]

224477: I don't have a Caly Jr. yet.......emphasis on the yet! I'm planning on one...when I get it...out the meat will come. :eek: ...Doc

As far as the CentofanteIII is concerned...maybe 2mm isn't a whole lot... maybe it is a little thin...but so are razor blades...and you know how they cut :eek: ...Doc

[224477]

224477: I don't have a Caly Jr. yet.......emphasis on the yet! I'm planning on one...when I get it...out the meat will come. :eek: ...Doc

As far as the CentofanteIII is concerned...maybe 2mm isn't a whole lot... maybe it is a little thin...but so are razor blades...and you know how they cut :eek: ...Doc


Doc,

I understand, maybe its just I am affraid of breaking it.. ;) :D
You are right with those razors. And you "can" always break even a 4mm fighter, at the tip... :rolleyes:
Thanks Doc.
J.