Gunting concerns

[chambers]

Was curious about something.

I'm starting to think that we as a defensive knife culture have lost sight of the fact that 99 times out of 100 we'll call on our knives to do utility work, basic cutting chores, boxes, cord and the like. Yes we all prepare for that one time when we'll be called upon to use our blades defensively but I'm wondering if we're focusing too much on that one possible chance.

The reason I bring this up is because the Gunting to me looks like it would be bothersome for mundane tasks that we usually have to call on our knives to perform. And while I'll freely admit I'm just judging only on looks, it looks to me like it would be obnoxious in the pocket. Is it just me or was the Gunting almost exclusively designed to be a fighting blade? Now before you go all defensive on me and tell me how wonderfull this knife is, I KNOW Spyderco makes great knives end of story. Are we sliding into an era where knives will only be purchased on their merit as a fighting blade?

[ronin203]

chambers, sure the gunting looks like a pure fighter, but anything with a sharp edge can be used as a utility knife. my favorite thing about the gunting is that it was designed to be used as an impact weopon in the closed position. while i have a few knives that can be used that way, the gunting was designed especially for that purpose. as for how it feels in the pocket, i dont know yet, i dont have one yet. but i do know that skunkworks makes a kydex belt sheath for it. when i get my guntig ill let you know how it feels.

[seth]

Chambers,
I think the crux of you point is the nature of the "defensive knife culture".

For the LE, security, Military full-time professional the Gunting is but one device in their threat management toolset. Their carry of the Gunting will likely be part of a purposed designed uniform. So pocket bulk offers little concern.

The Gunting concepts invovles a myriad of non-cutting methods of physical control and non-lethal impact techniques. The professional who needs these options is well served by the Gunting's design. These folks will have a high chance of deploying the Gunting within the realm of arresting or controlling a violent subject. Moreover, there is a low chance that the Gunting will be used to end a death fight, because they have better tools to deal with a lethal threat.

Now, let's take a different segment of the "defensive knife culture". The average citizen seeking a utility blade that will be used for 99.6 percent mundane cutting tasks, with an advantage if ever pressed into defensive use. For these folk, I think it's a simple question of individual lifestyle and risk assessment.

Ease of carry will depend upon their daily clothing and how a person adapts the Gunting into their daily life. If the trade-off between utility and personal risk assessment doesn't warrent the need for a Gunting, then a non-specialized knife will be a better fit.

The notion of the "pure fighting knife" is a misnomer when applied to the Gunting.

The Gunting is better described as a multi force level defensive device. Only one segment of it's use profile invovles cutting.

Bram reports that four live field uses of the Gunting were with the blade in the closed position.

The Gunting may not be the best daily cutting chore knife, nor could it claim the best "pure fighting knife" mantle. However, it does offer it's bearer effective force level options in a compact profile. When viewed in this light, it's no so obnoxious.

-Seth

[Glenn]

Chambers,

I will grant you that the appearance of the Gunting is new and different and maybe even odd. But I have been wearing one in my pocket as a utility knife for a while now and have had no comments. If Spyderco makes the UUK I would probably carry one of those because it is supposed to sit lower in the pocket and can still be used for non-lethal.

However the ergonomics of the Gunting are superb. You can tell when using the knife that a considerable amount of thought went into the handle. There is at least one person on the Bladeforums that carries the Gunting not as a self defense tool but because it has a well designed proportionally large handle that gives the user great control over a legally acceptable small blade.
If you leave the appearance behind you have a high end Spyderco with a great steel and great lock that cuts just as well as any other high end Spyderco - Very Well. It is the only knife I have been carrying for utility and have not felt limited by the design of the knife. If you have chance, try to handle one. This may not change how you feel about the appearance but will probably change your opinion about its usefulness as a cutting tool.

- Glenn

[wayne]

I carry the Gunting as an everyday carry knife in a Skunkworks sheath. I love the handle and ergonomics of the knife for general use. And I always have its MBC capabilities available should they be needed. I also have a Military, Delica, and SpyderCard, but prefer the Gunting for its multitude of uses.

Wayne

[frank olesen]

Hi Chambers
my name is Frank I'm the one who makes the kydex for the Gunting, I'm also one of the instructors under Bram and a personal student. I have skinned deer with one, it was not clumsy at all. Besides you should NEVER use a defense knife for all those mundane tasks, carry a smaller one. I have a SS Dragonfly for the working chores. I don't carry a live blade any longer either, I only carry the drone, but if I were to carry a live gunting I would also carry a "working knife." Bram had enough foresight to realize some people would complain about the knife riding 'too high' or it being uncomfortable in the pocket or whatever, so that's why the kydex came to be used, not only for comfort but for deployability, it is much much faster out of the belt than out of the pocket(gross motor skills being what they are). One last point, the gunting is NOT a fighting knife, it is a DEFENSIVE TOOL. Bram and all of us at CSSD-SC have no intention of teaching anyone to be "knife fighters". The only goal for us is to offer a means of SELF DEFENSE. Not all folders were designed to be used as "fighters" and there are many that would not be suitable for that purpose specifically. But one must remember that "steel cuts flesh"... it is the unmitigated truth, so in essence they all could be used to defend one's life.

Frank

Edited by - admin on 6/24/2001 10:46:01 PM

[frank olesen]

sorry double posting!!!!

Edited by - admin on 6/24/2001 10:42:53 PM

[chambers]

I want to thank all of you for your responces. They were What I was looking for. I wanted input on how the gunting feels to carry, and I wanted opinions as to it's utility applications. I must have missed the multi-use of force possibilities potential present in this blade. My primary concern was that we were starting to focus on 'defensive tools' as opposed to a utility blade. I recently realised that was the whole point of MBC. The Gunting strikes me as a well thought out design and a quality tool. I appreciate your input as I did not want to write off a knife I just didn't quite understand.

[BRAM]

sorry.. I was out of town..hmm big suprise..right?
The GUNTING or any MBC knife with the exception of the Civilian can be used for utlity purposes..
(The Chinook is a great hunting bowie, EDC knife as well as MBC.)

Its ( the GUNTING)ergonomic in the hand, its got a spyderco hole, it really cuts..so its a good knife..

Yes..it has a lot of MBC-non lethal, less than lethal and non MBC-lethal capabilities BUT it is a Spydie..

That means it cuts cord, cardboard, fruit, paper, fabric, wood,...you know the daily cut stuff.
Several peole I know carry it ONLY as a utility knife..they have no interest in its MBC usage.. some carry it because it actually works with limited flexibility, strength and gripping power..

The fire-rescue & paramedic guys carry it cause it breaks out car glass, cuts seat belts, cuts off clothing, cuts bandages, cuts wires, opens with gloves on..
doesn't slip..
life saving stuff..
again non MBC stuff...
its got a big handle and little blade for great leverage..

[ronin203]

hi bram. i plan to attend the mbc class in oct. i saw that for the first mbc class there was a third day which was a class for the gunting. do you know when this will be offered again?