Whole lot o' whackin'

[RLR]

... going on. So - less whackin' (spines) and more cutting.

1) a bounced spine-whack does NOT mirror normal use;
2) if the knife can fold under NORMAL pressure on spine, then there's a problem;
3) all slip-joints fail but all slip-joints cut;
4) folding knives fold, fixed blades do not;
5) going out and looking for problems you never knew you had is not a fun passtime.

Just wanted to share my view, in light of all the whackin' going on. Use them as cutters, hard use and all. But if it sucks as a hammer, it's not a hammer.

:p

[Fuglee]

I don't use my knives hard, but the one area where i'd be concerned would be in a self defense situation.

If I ever had to use my Chinook II in a SD situation, there's a chance i'd use a backcut. Or more possibly, use it to hook/pass. That's a situation where I'd be mighty upset if it closed on my fingers.

Other then that, I think a well made knife should be able to withstand a modest spine whack. I don't need to be able to hang by it, but I can see a knife getting a pretty good whack on the spine during normal use, accidents and whatnot.

Fugs

[Joe Talmadge]

In normal use, it is easy to get spine-to-edge pressure. There have been numerous cases of spine-whack type incidents, accidental but all part of normal use. And it's easy to imagine spine whack type pressures in defensive use, if you carry for that.

If someone uses all their knives as slip joints, only doing light cutting where all forces are perfectly controlled from edge-to-spine, that's their choice. But that person shouldn't fault the guy who bought a knife that is designed, manufactured, and advertised to hold up hard use, for actually trying to ensure the knife will hold up to hard use.

Joe

[RLR]

Joe - agreed. BUT... if you require perfect lockup, everytime, no matter what (lint, lube, dirt), it's gotta be a fixed blade. Don't get me wrong, I know that moderate spine-whack is a good test, but I think it's become too much. Just felt like starting a discussion... thanks for participating.

[Vincent]

Joe - agreed. BUT... if you require perfect lockup, everytime, no matter what (lint, lube, dirt), it's gotta be a fixed blade. Don't get me wrong, I know that moderate spine-whack is a good test, but I think it's become too much. Just felt like starting a discussion... thanks for participating.


The Locks shouldent fail. I knwo my Compression lock didnt.

[STR]

The Locks shouldent fail. I knwo my Compression lock didnt.

I think the truth is we hope the locks won't fail but they can and do fail on occassion regardless of who made it or what type of lock it is. Go ahead. Someone else tell me how my logic is flawed. Each time you use a folding knife for an extreme chore you take a calculated risk even when you have convinced yourself that it is a chore the maker says it can take. It is a folder. Locks can fail. That is not a judgement or an attack. It is not condemning someone or finding fault with them for using his knife hard. It is a simple fact about folders.

Vincent. You cannot judge all compression locks as any more reliable or strong from one knife anymore than we can judge all Manix or 710s as weak or unreliable from one or even several examples of a mass produced item that failed one or two tests. Your one knife passing your tests does not mean that all others out there will pass with flying colors for the same test.

Based on recent surprises don't be surprised if a video turns up with a compression lock failure and then a ball bearing lock and an ultra lock where some of them failed as well. Right now nothing would surprise me.

[Vincent]

I think the truth is we hope the locks won't fail but they can and do fail on occassion regardless of who made it or what type of lock it is. Go ahead. Someone else tell me how my logic is flawed. Each time you use a folding knife for an extreme chore you take a calculated risk even when you have convinced yourself that it is a chore the maker says it can take. It is a folder. Locks can fail. That is not a judgement or an attack. It is not condemning someone or finding fault with them for using his knife hard. It is a simple fact about folders.

Vincent. You cannot judge all compression locks as any more reliable or strong from one knife anymore than we can judge all Manix or 710s as weak or unreliable from one or even several examples of a mass produced item that failed one or two tests. Your one knife passing your tests does not mean that all others out there will pass with flying colors for the same test.

Based on recent surprises don't be surprised if a video turns up with a compression lock failure and then a ball bearing lock and an ultra lock where some of them failed as well. Right now nothing would surprise me.


I agree, but for a Compression lock to fail, either the Lock itself needs to break, The G-10 breaks or the Pivot. It would take a whole lot of strength and power for that.

But my knife seems solid.

[Dr. Snubnose]

It's real simple and plain to me...like RLR implied...if your gonna worry bout lock failure...get yourself a fixed blade....Spyderco does sell those as well and they are pretty good if you ask me...BTW In all my years of owning all kinds of knives I have never spine whacked my knives...on purpose or by mistake...what are you guys going to think up next (hitting the point like a nail! Don't forget to use a sledgehammer)...Doc :D

[Andre V]

I believe the reason why some "lock failure issue" has become soch an issue, is that we all pay a lot of money for our knives and we expect them to be unfallable. When one fails we are dumbstruck. Through all the marketing and hype surrounding our knives we simply dont expect our knives to be able to fail. I dont see many manufacturers adverting the weaknesses of there knives. For example i own a Sog X-Ray Vision, great knife. In the catalog, they say the knife lock is rated at 1000lbs. I think anybody will be amazed if a little spine whacking causes a lock failure.

I tend to agree with some of the posts in this thread, my knife is not a hammer, but there is the issue of safety. A little spine whack is a good test i think. But if you want total reliablity against lock failure, but a fixed blade. But this been a forum at lest it gives us something to discuss.

[Joe Talmadge]

The Locks shouldent fail. I knwo my Compression lock didnt.

Lord help me, I'm with Vincent. Some of you guys seem to be arguing, "some locks will fail simple tests; therefore, all locks are unreliable". It's just not true, and simply dismisses the manufacturer's responsibility to do things right. A little spine whack or torquing should not cause a lock to fail, and there are loads and loads of knives which pass this with no sweat. No reason to panic that some locks don't pass -- that's why we do the tests, to weed them out.

And yes, of course, a fixed blade will be stronger than a comparably-sized folder. But some of you seem to be using that as an excuse for every lock failure, and to discourage people from testing their folders to ensure that they are safe. A folder isn't a fixed blade, but there's absolutely no reason a folder shouldn't be able to stand up to torquing, spine forces, etc. In fact, a huge number of them do. For those of you who haven't made up your mind: I urge you to test your folders, hold your folders up to the standards that they are designed and advertised for, use the good ones, and hold the manufacturers responsible for the bad ones.

Joe

[RLR]

Joe, you are right. Test your knives, but be reasonable. I had a Military that failed Spine Whack at the very tip but never closed under hard use, binding, torque, or spine pressure. But a bounce on a hard surface with a snap COULD make it fail. Why? Don't know. I've forced lockbacks to the point of breaking, liners to buckle and axis locks to slide. I know what works, what doesn't. This said, we have folks now putting their rotation through torture tests "in case." If you have a hard use knife, test it, test it again and rely on it. But those drawer knives and moderate use knives, enjoy them for the knives they are. I think that the actual-world experience of spine-whack failure may be equal to the risk of a tip breaking and hitting you in the eye. Yes if you are hacking wood and slip the grip, striking down spine first... could happen. Field dressing a buck, there's bone, but I can't really see the snap action at work. SD, I'll leave to the experts as that's not my arena at all.

I just want folks to realize the difference between MODERATE USE, HARD USE, EXTREME USE and ABUSE. Will my Walker Sprint Run fail spine whack? Don't know and don't care. Will my ParaMilitary or BM 635 (gasp!)? No, I've tested them as they are HARD USE. Would I test a Manix - yes; and would I cringe at failure? yes. Otherwise, I try to relax and enjoy my hobby.

Joe, I do want to thank you for this discussion. I've always respected your views and always tip my hat to you when sharpening discussions spark up. Cheers man, and keep it coming...

Off to put a convex grind on my fixed blade, I remain,

RLR

[Joe Talmadge]

Joe, I do want to thank you for this discussion. I've always respected your views and always tip my hat to you when sharpening discussions spark up. Cheers man, and keep it coming...


The feeling is mutual. I think it's important to walk away friends from these discussions ... some of my favorite posters are regularly on the opposite side from me on these lock testing threads, and I think we're cool with each other afterwards. It's not like lock testing is a subject worth fighting over ... unlike, say, the best IPA. :)