ZPD Yojimbo?

[ruxton]

...please? :D Perhaps with a black clip and textured CF a la military. You know it makes sense...

[BlackNinja]

...please? :D Perhaps with a black clip and textured CF a la military. You know it makes sense...

A Yojimbo in ZDP :eek: Yikes!!! Improving on the cutting ability of the Yojimbo. :eek: Count me in for one!!! ;)

[ruxton]

Could you imagine it.. the cutting power of the yojimbo (just look at a meat test...) combied with ZPD, it would be like a lightsabre.

[markg]

If I understand correctly, the knife in question will have to be a Japanese made knife for you to use that steel (I maybe wrong, but I thought that was what I heard), the Yojimbo is made in the USA, hence the Crucible (S30V) made steel. Someone tell me if I am wrong...

Otherwise, yea, that would be cool! :)

[ruxton]

If I understand correctly, the knife in question will have to be a Japanese made knife for you to use that steel (I maybe wrong, but I thought that was what I heard), the Yojimbo is made in the USA, hence the Crucible (S30V) made steel. Someone tell me if I am wrong...

Otherwise, yea, that would be cool! :)
Yes actually I've heard that too, but one can hope...

[TurnerIII]

Very nice idea :D

So - Blade made in Japan - shipped and assemble into knife here! ;)

Lots of things are made this way

[ruxton]

Very nice idea :D

So - Blade made in Japan - shipped and assemble into knife here! ;)

Lots of things are made this way
Nice simple solution there... good thinking. drum up some interest everyone... ZPD yojimbo sprintrun, pass it on ;) how about dark green G-10 with black clip?
Also urgently needed is a yojimbo trainer in red G-10.

[Shmackey]

ZPD yojimbo sprintrun, pass it on ;) how about dark green G-10

I never felt the need to pull the trigger on a Yojimbo, but I have to admit that this would make me do it.

[Michael Cook]

:spyder: Ya, dat'd be priddy wicked, mon. Lum Chinese would also be quite tasty. And just imagine a purple g-10 handled super-tanker hawkbill with
zdp-189! :eek:
Is zdp-189 profitable? :spyder:

[ruxton]

Lum Chinese would be sweet too, or a big calypso but if I had to pick one for them to make a sprint run of it would definately be the Yojimbo, it's already got the blade shape for serious cutting, it just needs the steel for it too. Dark green G-10, black clip, ZPD-189. I'd buy 2. :cool:
EDIT: As for whether it's profitable, they could charge whatever they like for it and we all know they'd be gone before they hit the dealers. Even if they did a large run of them (like 2000+) they would still all go.

[STR]

I like it fine with the CPMS30V. I also rather like the Made in USA thing.

[Axlis]

I think its a great idea! Would be one heck of a slicer.

[WORKER#9]

Nasty!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :eek: I like the Idea!! :D

[224477]

I guess I need to try the ZDP189 some time!

[smcfalls13]

Hmm....I think the cutting power of ZDP-189 would be an excellent addition to the Yojimbo, but shipping the blade over here would dramatically increase the cost, I would think.

But if there is a blade that could benefit from this steel, it would be the Yojimbo, with the Civilian PE as a close second. Both are designed primarily for slashing, and ZDP-189 excels at slashing.

Nice idea.

[JD Spydo]

I like it fine with the CPMS30V. I also rather like the Made in USA thing.

Now STR I don't mean you any ill-will or disrespect in any way. But please stop to consider the possibilities. I don't know if you have had the pleasure of using one of the Burgundy Calypsos with ZDP-189 but that blade steel is truly in a league of it's own.

I am a big proponent of made in the USA items. I go way out of my way sometimes to try to find US made items. But the super quality of this ZDP-189 is just not your "Fathers Oldsmobile" ( OR Buck knife) :rolleyes:

I not only want a Yojimbo in ZDP-189>>> I DEMAND IT!!!!! :cool:

[Wali]

I'll buy one!!!!!!

[zenheretic]

Hmm....I think the cutting power of ZDP-189 would be an excellent addition to the Yojimbo, but shipping the blade over here would dramatically increase the cost, I would think.

But if there is a blade that could benefit from this steel, it would be the Yojimbo, with the Civilian PE as a close second. Both are designed primarily for slashing, and ZDP-189 excels at slashing.

Nice idea.
Scott, I'm not so sure it would. Take the ocelot for example. The scales are made here and shipped to Japan for assembly, and of course returned for sale. According to Sal, the extra cost is only in the manufacture of the scales not in the shipping of the scales overseas for assembly. So using reverse logic, shipping the blades over here for assembly shouldn't inflate costs much. Come on Deacon prove me wrong! :p

source: http://spyderco.com/forums/showthread.php?p=195928#post195928

[JD Spydo]

If I understand correctly, the knife in question will have to be a Japanese made knife for you to use that steel (I maybe wrong, but I thought that was what I heard), the Yojimbo is made in the USA, hence the Crucible (S30V) made steel. Someone tell me if I am wrong...

Otherwise, yea, that would be cool! :)

markq that will not be a hindering factor at all. Because Spyderco has imported steel and then made the knife here in the USA. Take the older Renegades & Blackhawks. There were quite a few of them made here in the USA at the Golden Colorado plant. They got GIN-1 steel obviously from Japan for that knife.

Even if the knife would be manufactured in Japan that would be all right with me because the Japanese have superb quality with their cutlery. They have proven that they can compete with anyone. But I don't see why they just couldn't procure the ZDP-189 bar stock and make them here at the Golden CO plant.

I still think a ZDP-189 Yojimbo would be stellar. I am still not giving up on the idea of bringing back the C-10 Worker in ZDP-189 in PE. I love the Worker and have always wanted one in PE. But I want it with premium steel. I think that ZDP-189 would make it a totally different knife. I think the Yojimbo sales would explode if they would do it. BRING IT ON!!!!!!!!!! :cool:

[ruxton]

Scott, I'm not so sure it would. Take the ocelot for example. The scales are made here and shipped to Japan for assembly, and of course returned for sale. According to Sal, the extra cost is only in the manufacture of the scales not in the shipping of the scales overseas for assembly. So using reverse logic, shipping the blades over here for assembly shouldn't inflate costs much. Come on Deacon prove me wrong! :p

source: http://spyderco.com/forums/showthread.php?p=195928#post195928
My thoughts exactly, and it would be a first for the company I believe, blade made in Japan, everything else + assembly in the US.
Look at the PE spydercos that have a reputation for being crazy sharp from the box... calypso jr (done), bob lum chinese and yojimbo. Seriously I'd buy 2 of them even if they were $50 more.


I like it fine with the CPMS30V. I also rather like the Made in USA thing.
It would still be made in the USA. Just not the blade :cool:

[TurnerIII]

Come on Spyderco! You know that most of us would buy two (at least) One to play with and one to put away!! :D :D :D

This would make for a great Sprint Run knife - if only to test the waters ;) :spyder: :)

[JD Spydo]

OH Did I mention that a PURPLE handle would be appropriate for this knife? Well it would :cool: :spyder: Also a black boron carbide coated blade would look >> OH SO COOL!!>>

Also maybe even consider a special run of the Ronin with ZDP-189 being it is already made in Japan anyway. This is do-able ;) :spyder:

[smcfalls13]

Scott, I'm not so sure it would. Take the ocelot for example. The scales are made here and shipped to Japan for assembly, and of course returned for sale. According to Sal, the extra cost is only in the manufacture of the scales not in the shipping of the scales overseas for assembly. So using reverse logic, shipping the blades over here for assembly shouldn't inflate costs much. Come on Deacon prove me wrong! :p

source: http://spyderco.com/forums/showthread.php?p=195928#post195928

Good point. I retract my previous post.

BRING ON THE ZDP-189 YOJIMBO!

[TurnerIII]

Yojimbo ZDP! Yojimbo ZDP!! Yojimbo ZDP!!!

Lets get this rolling! It would be a great line extension for this model. The engineering/machinery is there - it would be additional sales for existing technology/investment.

Incremental revenue flow - much of which would go directly to the bottom line!

And above all else .......... It would ~~ delight the customer ~~ :D :spyder: :D

[Hapkidoin]

Oh Gawd! a Yojimbo ZDP! That would be a must have for the Old Hapkidoin. A laser blade on steroids, for sure!!!

Chuck

[catamount]

If they make it, I'll buy one.

Tom

[ruxton]

Yojimbo ZDP! Yojimbo ZDP!! Yojimbo ZDP!!!

Lets get this rolling! It would be a great line extension for this model. The engineering/machinery is there - it would be additional sales for existing technology/investment.

Incremental revenue flow - much of which would go directly to the bottom line!

And above all else .......... It would ~~ delight the customer ~~ :D :spyder: :D
Yojimbo ZPD!!! Yojimbo ZPD!!! Yojimbo ZPD!!! now someones bound to make it... :D

[zenheretic]

OH Did I mention that a PURPLE handle would be appropriate for this knife? Well it would :cool: :spyder: Also a black boron carbide coated blade would look >> OH SO COOL!!>>

Also maybe even consider a special run of the Ronin with ZDP-189 being it is already made in Japan anyway. This is do-able ;) :spyder:
Stop JD! The great possibility of such a yummy beast is making it hurt worse than a 10 year old waiting for Christmas! :p

[JD Spydo]

NO I am getting even with you for wanting to kill the Hawkbill thread :D :rolleyes: :D :spyder: . Actually I would crave a couple of them myself ;) :spyder:

[BlackNinja]

This would be such a great knife to come in ZDP!!! How to improve on greatness.....Add ZDP-189!!!

[zenheretic]

NO I am getting even with you for wanting to kill the Hawkbill thread :D :rolleyes: :D :spyder: . Actually I would crave a couple of them myself ;) :spyder:
Oh that little thing? ;)

[ruxton]

Not that I'm bumping this thread or anything but... bump

[Rainy County]

Now that wold be a scary knife,I wouldn't want to stand next to a guy with that in his hand.I would be up for one of those(and for that matter a couple of those).

[Hannibal Lecter]

Dear Friends,

I too would welcome a Yojimbo in ZDP-189. After recently trying a Burgundy Caly Jr. for the first time I am very much a believer in this steel for some applications, and I believe this to be one of them it is well-suited to. The Yo has become an EDC for me of late.

Colored G-10 scales would make it even more sheeple-friendly/box-cutter-like. I love the idea!

--------
Hannibal

[ruxton]

But what colour G-10 I suggested dark green and JD suggested purple. In fact how about... textured CF like the military :p Also would it be laminated zpd or solid (my vote... laminated). Black blade? I'd certainly like a black clip with a gold bug a la calypso.

[VultureParade]

I don't mean to rain on anyone's parade here, but I'm having trouble with the idea of this project. Especially now.

The Yojimbo isn't selling well, hence the lack of a trainer.

The Yojimbo also comes in two G10 colors. So you guys are talking about a third variation of a knife that isn't selling well.

Spyderco also has the Lum Chinese and Delica ZDP projects in the works. Also, given what little we know about ZDP and how difficult it seems to be to get any information. Maybe we should relax with ZDP for now.

Spyderco makes the Yojimbo in the USA. Even if the blade was just made in Japan that's still work hours taken away from American workers. Not to mention money taken away from Crucible steel

Is the Yojimbo really a utility knife? I've carried one and used it as a utility knife, but there are better knives for that in mind. Does it really benefit that much from more edge retention?

Why the ZDP steel? If this is a self defense knife, what's wrong with S30V. ZDP isn't really going to make the knife any sharper.

I'm also concerned about what the price on something like this is going to look like.


I think that if you guys want to push for something, push for a Yojimbo trainer.

Or push for more information on the BG42 Lil Temp sprint.

Or the tanker hawkbill

-Bryan

[Hannibal Lecter]

My Dear Bryan,


The Yojimbo isn't selling well, hence the lack of a trainer.

On what do you base this assumption? I have the 2006 catalog in-hand and there will definitely be Yojimbo trainers forthcoming.


The Yojimbo also comes in two G10 colors. So you guys are talking about a third variation of a knife that isn't selling well.

Please see above... :D


Spyderco also has the Lum Chinese and Delica ZDP projects in the works. Also, given what little we know about ZDP and how difficult it seems to be to get any information. Maybe we should relax with ZDP for now.

I understand your concerns, but please consider that part of what this forum is for is use as a barometer of sorts of what the knife-buying community wants. Such knives may never happen, but I hardly think it hurts to ask.


Spyderco makes the Yojimbo in the USA. Even if the blade was just made in Japan that's still work hours taken away from American workers. Not to mention money taken away from Crucible steel.

I again see your concerns as I also prefer to buy American when possible. As the ZDP version would doubtless be only a Sprint Run, I do not see any long-term damage to Crucible Steel as a result.


Is the Yojimbo really a utility knife? I've carried one and used it as a utility knife, but there are better knives for that in mind.

Yes, though I prefer not to use EDC knives for SD purposes lest the blade be dull when I REALLY need it the most, and I agree that the Yojimbo might not be THE best choice as a utility knife. Still, if the demand is there...


Does it really benefit that much from more edge retention?

In short, yes.

Please understand - I am not a steel junkie at all. I prefer VG-10 to most steels, and 440C is much better than most want to admit. However, after trying ZDP-189 for a while now I do genuinely see the attraction.


Why the ZDP steel? If this is a self defense knife, what's wrong with S30V? ZDP isn't really going to make the knife any sharper.

Nothing is wrong wth S30V, or VG-10, or 440C for that matter. I suppose it all comes down to personal preferences: what characteristics you personally want from the steel in your knives.


I'm also concerned about what the price on something like this is going to look like.

You have me there. :D


I think that if you guys want to push for something, push for a Yojimbo trainer.

Done. Next knife to push for?


Or the tanker hawkbill.

Now we're on the same page, my friend. :D

Seriously, I don't see the harm in asking for a ZDP-189 Sprint Run of Yojimbos. I think the positive characteristics of the steel outweight the increased costs involved, at least in some instances.

I'd still rather see the new Super-Tanker Hawkbill...

--------
Hannibal

[ruxton]

Well put. I realise the likelyhood of it happening is very slim, but I'm allowed to dream :D I though the other day that I should design a spyderco knife (just for fun) then after a while of thinking what features I would/wouldn't like to see I came to the realisation that I simply couldn't come up with anything better than the yojimbo. It's a real shame it isn't selling spectacularly well because to be brutally honest it deserves to. A ZPD version just might drum up a little more interest, just like a trainer. By this I mean it would stop being just another odd-looking spyderco and become a classic like the gunting. If people see there are 4 versions of it floating about they will think it must have something special and go out on a limb and buy it regardless of its looks. Then when they get it in their hand they will realise it is something special and they will tell their friends and buy a trainer :D This knife deserves to sell by the million.

[butch]

if a super steel would be used i would put $ on cpm S125V yo is a golden knife and golden uses mostly cpm stuff
butch

[TurnerIII]

"Originally Posted by VultureParade
Spyderco makes the Yojimbo in the USA. Even if the blade was just made in Japan that's still work hours taken away from American workers. Not to mention money taken away from Crucible steel."


And green monkeys can jump on cars while washing machines sing.

Same difference. :)


If it was made here I would buy it. But its not - so it comes from Japan and I buy it. I am consumer - here me growl. Make it better or I will go elsewhere because I can -- Better learn this one labor or join the 405 buggy wip local :D

Simple - plane - real - Economics

[smcfalls13]

If the ZDP-189 Yojimbo makes it to production, and receives a different color of G-10, I would suggest dark green as opposed to dark purple.

The dark purple is reserved for the Super Tanker Hawkbill:p

[Xlr8td]

What about a LARGER version of the Yojimbo, with a g-10 handle in the same GREEN COLOUR as the Lil' T.
My EDC is a Yojimbo, and even with the rather wedge like profile of the handle, I sometimes have to check and see if it is still in my pocket. It is just that comfortable to carry.

[VultureParade]

Hey Hannibal,

First of all, thanks for addressing my concerns :)

Maybe I'm wrong about the trainer and sales, but I read a post from Sal a little while ago that said the following.


Hi Guys, The Yojimbo trainer is not on the schedule, sorry.

Actually there was some question about going ahead and making one. Sales
on the Yojimbo have softened and there is concern about excess inventory.

The thread is here. Sal's post is number 55
http://spyderco.com/forums/showthread.php?t=12359&page=4&highlight=yojimbo+trainer

I'm just concerned about the Yojimbo trainer project. It seems like the energy here would be better focused over there.

Don't get my wrong, I don't see any harm in asking. I'm just giving my take on the issue :) Ask, ask, and ask some more. But I don't think I would be doing anyone a service if I didn't give my honest opinion on the idea ;)

That's what we are here for, discourse.

Thanks for participating in some with me. :)

And Turner,

There's nothing wrong with making the knife somewhere else. I would just rather see it made here. I'd buy it if it was made over there and I'd buy it if it was made here. I would just rather see it made here.

If you were given the choice between two identical products at identical prices and one was made on US soil by US workers and one was made in another country. Which one would you choose?

My point was that since I don't see a ZDP Yojimbo as much of an improvement over the existing Yojimbo, why out source work and material to make it?


-Bryan

[VultureParade]

Oh yeah. I'd kill for something in dark purple G10


-Bryan

[zenheretic]

Yep it never hurts to ask...some of us have been begging for something in Damascus for some time, then Sal said he was looking into Damasteel. Nothing concrete but at least he heard us.

Aren't all the new steels more expensive at first? With more use we should expect cost to come down...maybe not this month but maybe later. Sprint run sprint run sprint run!

[TurnerIII]

Hey Bryan,

I am with you on this one. Same item, same QA, same price - I am all over the US version. I just do not like the idea of blindly "buy usa" - ONLY because it is made here. Innovation is not just driven by the knidness of someones heart - the profit/loss motovation is what [should] really gets people up in the morning. :) And it helps to bring better products to us for better prices.

But I have nothing against a well made us product. In fact I do have several Golden CO made items. :D :D :D

But if the ZDP is not - can not- be made here, why not outsource it and make it into a variety of knives that - the consumer is asking for? I do not work very hard all day long so that I can help underwrite Crucible Steels' market share or workers - if they are unwilling or unable to give me what I want...

And I really want a Yojimbo in ZDP! ;)

Peace out - :)

[Hannibal Lecter]

My Dear VultureParade,


I'm just concerned about the Yojimbo trainer project. It seems like the energy here would be better focused over there.

As stated, since I saw it in the print catalog I assumed it to be true and in process. Maybe a bad choice on my part? :D

I too see the trainer as being the better focus of energy, but I figured if the trainer was already a done deal... :D


Don't get me wrong, I don't see any harm in asking. I'm just giving my take on the issue :) Ask, ask, and ask some more. But I don't think I would be doing anyone a service if I didn't give my honest opinion on the idea ;)

Too true. I am glad you did, as you did make some very valid points, especially concerning increased costs, etc.


That's what we are here for, discourse.

And I love it! :D


Thanks for participating in some with me. :)

Any time, my friend! I enjoy a bit of back and forth kicking things around! This is how new ideas come to light.


My point was that since I don't see a ZDP Yojimbo as much of an improvement over the existing Yojimbo, why out source work and material to make it?

Actually, this seems to be the main difference in opinion - some of us do see the change in blade steel as enough of an improvement to warrant the time, trouble, energy and expenditure.

Truthfully, had you asked me a month ago if I supported pursuing this project I would have said no. After handling a Burgundy Caly Jr. my perspective has changed a bit. :D

--------
Hannibal

[Plowboy]

Lum Chinese would be sweet too, or a big calypso but if I had to pick one for them to make a sprint run of it would definately be the Yojimbo, it's already got the blade shape for serious cutting, it just needs the steel for it too. Dark green G-10, black clip, ZPD-189. I'd buy 2. :cool:
EDIT: As for whether it's profitable, they could charge whatever they like for it and we all know they'd be gone before they hit the dealers. Even if they did a large run of them (like 2000+) they would still all go.

Only a few minutes ago I stated that I perfer black g-10, but I could go for dark green with a black clip. I even like drab green.

[spydersam]

After carrying a yojimbo in my right front pocket and using it on a daily basis I realize just how difficult it is to judge a book by its cover.

Many classics or soon to be classics were not super popular at the time of their original production/sales run. If they were then of course they would be carried forward to another year etc..... with the resultant lack of rarity or the discoverability that drives the psychology of so many collectors.

With that said. The ZDP 189 is the new high tech steel. ANY knife with this steel with average or above average previous acceptance will sell like hotcakes. The question is how quickly or slow is our "thirst" for this technology satiated.

To this end I think we need to look to the car industry for a "flagship" concept and a line extension strategy. Spyderco pros know their stuff. A collaboration between Janich and Spyderco of further refinement of the Yojimbo platform (with ZDP-189) could be a huge flagship product. When you come out with a better idea/design, there is such a huge inertia to overcome in the limited imagination of the knife public. I remember when the glock came out and was trashed and abused to no end. That was a tough gun and it took all the abuse and won the market over. If the yojimbo endures with the latest and greatest steel, I predict it will do the same. Even without huge sales, the PR and the aura the company derives would be phenomenal. Especially useful in a market glutted with gimmicks and poor quality coated with marketing hype.

I have no idea which way the market is going, what is hot or not but right now it looks like the chinese folder will get the ZDP steel. While that is fantastic, there is just no comparsion in functionality, cutting ability,utility range, and handle design between a lum chinese folder and a yojimbo. The very creation of the ZDP lum clearly shows that the spyderco pros are listening very carefully to what people THINK they want.

If I was going to trust a knife to help me with daily cutting dutys and serve as a back up weapon to help protect my life, the yojimbo has almost no comparsion.

Spyderco is a fantastic company for so many reasons but the best one I can think of is that the principals of this company actually read the forum and respond to the end line users. Anyone with this philosophy understands the true meaning of a business.

Sam

[ruxton]

Thanks for resurrecting my thread :p
If the spydergods are listening I still want a ZPD yojimbo! Here's a mockup of a green SE yojimbo... Tell me you wouldn't want one...
http://img530.imageshack.us/img530/8237/c85gbllgrn8ow.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

[smcfalls13]

Tell me you wouldn't want one...
http://img530.imageshack.us/img530/8237/c85gbllgrn8ow.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

I want one. :cool:

[Michael Cook]

:spyder: doubt you'll see that. Michael Janich doesn't prefer serrations due to clothing snags so a serrated Michael Janich model isn't likely. :spyder:

[spydersam]

look at a basic porsche 911 and see how many different ways that platform has been modified. the same can be done with ANY knife model. i have another thought on serrations I will save for another thread.


sam

[zenheretic]

I really like that color of green, hope to see it on some G-10 model in the future!

Have to agree with Michael Cook, I'd be surprised if Mr. Janich would want a SE when his method supports the PE as superior.

[spydersam]

Perhaps Mr. Janich would be less offended by serrations if the serrations were ground on both sides of the blade?

I wonder if any blade maker does that?

Sam

[smcfalls13]

Perhaps Mr. Janich would be less offended by serrations if the serrations were ground on both sides of the blade?


In the Sharpmaker video, I believe Sal mentions that chisel grinds(in this case, serrations, which are chisel ground) can be sharpened on both sides of the blade if it need be.

It sacrifices a little bit of cutting ability, but strengthens the edge(it's not as thin)

[jaislandboy]

Yes, a ZDP Yojimbo would be Incredible! :cool:

[ruxton]

:spyder: doubt you'll see that. Michael Janich doesn't prefer serrations due to clothing snags so a serrated Michael Janich model isn't likely. :spyder:
I know, pity :( Although I'm sure if the demand is there he might be convinced to agree to a sprint run with serrations (not ZPD) maybe in purple G-10 :p . The more yojimbo variations the better!
Anyway now that we are getting the superhawk and the yojimbo trainers are still in the works (as far as I know) and the ZPD lum chinese is on the way...
ZPD YOJIMBO! ZPD YOJIMBO!! ZPD YOJIMBO!!! :D