Interesting promotional hype

[zenheretic]

I read the paragraph explaining this knife and my "Spydie Sense" was tingling...anyone else? :rolleyes:
http://cgi.ebay.com/PTR-Police-Rescue-Special-Ops-Knife-Benchmade-Spyderco_W0QQitemZ6617452050QQcategoryZ43335QQrdZ1 QQcmdZViewItem

[smcfalls13]

What the heck is 420F? :confused: And why is the RC so d*** low. I've got paper clips that would make a better knife.

Spydie sense tingling? No, my Spydie sense was laughing it's metaphorical posterior off. :D

That's just too funny ;)

[foggy]

It is all crud and lies every bit of it. :mad:

[zenheretic]

Ok so my BS meter was blurting,"whoop! whooop! whooooooop!"

[JaM]

"buy it now" for 40$ !!?? LOL !!!

"The quality of this knife is as good or better than Benchmade or Spyderco (the two leading competitors in this category). We took the best features of the best knives on the market and improved on them to produce what we think is the best folding blade knife around."

:D thanks for the laugh !!

[spd9075]

Ok so my BS meter was blurting,"whoop! whooop! whooooooop!"
Must have caused a chain reaction....mine did, too! ;) :D

[HoB]

"...solid safty lock..." looks like a liner lock to me.

Well, surprise, surprise, it wasn't picked up by the "US military"! :rolleyes:

What a bunch of BS. :mad:

[CopilotATS-55]

The thumb stud looks like pipe to me

[SoCal Operator]

Wow, what a piece of crap. I liked the part about combining Spyderco and Benchmade. By the way, did anyone see any Spyderco influences? The knife just looks like someone beat a BM Stryker with an ugly stick. "Number 420F", Ha! I have harder butter in my kitchen!

[Zwaplat]

Wow, what a piece of crap. I liked the part about combining Spyderco and Benchmade. By the way, did anyone see any Spyderco influences? The knife just looks like someone beat a BM Stryker with an ugly stick. "Number 420F", Ha! I have harder butter in my kitchen!

The clip ?
I hope you have sharper butter too. Because that would be necessary if you bought this garbage.

[Axlis]

The clip ?
I hope you have sharper butter too. Because that would be necessary if you bought this garbage.
Yeah, the butter is what you use to sharpen this piece of trash! :p

[joready]

Not sure how we put together such a group of "experts" on something nobody here claims to actually own.

Everyone is entitled to their opinion, but not wanting take anyone’s "opinion" as a fact I decided to see what all the hype is about. I've bought stuff off this seller on eBay before, they sell a lot of fishing gear. Concerned about all the negative hype this item was getting, but knowing the sellers are good folks I did what a smart eBayer is supposed to do, check the feedback. Anyone here do that? Here are a few I found:
"nice knife 4 the $$; good solid daily work knife I won't worry about"
"Fast!!! Nice knife, I collect high end knives and this thing is very nice!"
"awesome knife ! rapid delivery, great seller -- thanks"

I needed a good work knife (the cheap plastic clip on my Spyderco broke off when I dropped it) so I said what the heck and got one. As I figured and read, this is d**n good knife! Heavier blade and grip than my Spyderco, has a heavy duty spring clip, real machined aluminum body. The pictures don’t really show the grip off well. “Crap steel” I think someone said? 440F is a common industrial stainless used in medical instruments and cutting machines according to a few manufactures web sites and my Machinists Guide.

Looks are one thing, how did it work? I used it at work for a few days, cutting up some cardboard, stripped the romex insulation to install about 60 outlets, cut off about 15 pieces of washing machine hose and it still has plenty of edge on it. I'll be bringing this thing with me to work from now on.

Don't get me wrong, I still like my Spyderco (the one that isn't broken) but this a good knife too and I didn't need to pay $80 for it. So thanks for the link, I might not have found it otherwise.

Apologies to the moderator for the rant. I normally wouldn't even bother jumping into a thread like this, but people shooting their mouths off about something they haven't even used really gets me.

[smcfalls13]

First of all. Welcome to the forum. :cool:


Not sure how we put together such a group of "experts" on something nobody here claims to actually own.

I fail to see anywhere in this thread a post that proclaims that we are experts.


“Crap steel” I think someone said? 440F is a common industrial stainless used in medical instruments and cutting machines according to a few manufactures web sites and my Machinists Guide.

Yes, 440F is a decent steel. For those who don't know, it's composition is as follows:

Carbon: 0.95 - 1.2
Chromium: 16 - 18
Iron: Balance
Manganese: 1.25 max
Molybdenum: 0.4 - 0.6
Nickel: 0.75 max
Phosphorus: 0.04 max
Silicon: 1 max
Sulphur: 0.1 - 0.35

Definitely nothing wrong with this steel. With this kind of composition, 440F should have excellent edge retention, and excellent corrosion resistance(hence it's use in surgical instruments)

But...if you take a look at the description of the knife, you'll see that it's NOT 440F that is advertised, but 420F.

The composition of 420F is as follows:

Carbon: 0.15 min
Chromium: 12 - 14
Iron: Balance
Manganese: 1.25 max
Molybdenum: 0.6 max
Phosphorus: 0.06 max
Silicon: 1 max
Sulphur: 0.15 min

Not exactly the best steel based on it's composition alone. Edge geometry and heat treat would play a MASSIVE role in a blade made of this steel. I'm not saying it couldn't be a good knife, just that based on numbers alone, it's statistically unlikely.

My only issue with your knife is the advertising for it. Included in it's title were the names Spyderco and Benchmade. Did that knife have anything in common with any knife by either of those two manfucturers? Not at all. It has a blade. That's about it. If the knife were advertised without those brand names, I doubt any of us would have had a problem with it.

Yes, the seller has 100% feedback, but I disagree with the practice of using another companies name to boost the level of attention for a knife. If the knife is as good as you say, the seller shouldn't need to use the lure of Spyderco and Benchmade to make the sale.

Obviously we differ in opinions on how a sale should be advertised.


So thanks for the link, I might not have found it otherwise.

Glad you found it useful.


I normally wouldn't even bother jumping into a thread like this, but people shooting their mouths off about something they haven't even used really gets me.

A 420 series steel at 52 RC is funny to me(perhaps I have an unusual sense of humor). In my (albeit limited) experience, and with a few exceptions, 420 is an inferior blade steel, so pardon my ignorance if I assumed the same of your knife. One definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results. When 420 fails to perform for me, I see no reason to try another knife of 420, "just in case." It just doesn't make sense to me, so I didn't bother trying this knife.

In the end, we have differing opinions, it happens, no need to get all fired up about it. Enjoy your knife.

[zenheretic]

I needed a good work knife (the cheap plastic clip on my Spyderco broke off when I dropped it) so I said what the heck and got one. Looks are one thing, how did it work? I used it at work for a few days, cutting up some cardboard, stripped the romex insulation to install about 60 outlets, cut off about 15 pieces of washing machine hose and it still has plenty of edge on it. I'll be bringing this thing with me to work from now on.

So thanks for the link, I might not have found it otherwise.


WHOOP WHOOP WHOOP. BS meter on full alert. Let me see, you wouldn't have found the knife had it not been for my link, you also allude to you bought the knife after seeing this thread, and to "prove us wrong" (so to speak), you bought the knife. Well let me see: the thread started on 3/26 and you posted on 3/31 that makes a five day window of when you purchased the knife, paid for the knife, the seller shipped the knife, you received the knife, tested the knife for a few days, joined this forum (3/29) and posted your rebuttal. That isn't impossible but rather unlikely.

Like any good eBayer, I checked the sellers feedback, I didn't see any of this "as good or better than Spyderco blade" sold in that time period. Well I guess you forgot to do the seller a favor of giving him his feedback for a great item shipped so fast. Let us know, when you post your feedback so we can admire yet another satisfied customer. ;)

You write good copy first in eBay and now here.

[joready]

To smcfalls13, thanks for the welcome and info. My bad on the steel type, I meant 420F not 440. I was looking at a catalog with a knife that had 440 on it, must have spaced it. From my brief research how hard 420F gets is all in the tempering. 420F surely is not M2, but very good for general use and fairly easy to work with according to a machinist I work with.

zenheretic, I've been browsing these forums for quite some time only felt a need to get involved in this post. Nice conspiracy therory you have there though, still looking for that second gunman on the grassy knoll too ? LOL

[smcfalls13]

From my brief research how hard 420F gets is all in the tempering. 420F surely is not M2, but very good for general use and fairly easy to work with according to a machinist I work with.

How thick is the blade on that knife you have, and what is the grind on it? With a blade at only 52RC, that's gotta be some phenomenal edge geometry for the blade to hold it's edge after what you've described it doing. The blade looks very thick from the pictures, and looks to be either a flat saber grind, or very low hollow grind. I just can't for the life of me figure out how that knife could be a good slicer, it just boggles my mind :eek: It's definitely an example how important the edge geometry is to cutting power of a knife. It's a triad between steel, heat treat, and geometry. I always thought you needed at least two of those to have a decent knife, but I guess I was wrong.

Then again, I've got a 420J2(no idea of RC) knife that has done the same thing(astounding for a blade of this steel, I swore it was a better steel) but it's because the blade is extremely thin(1/16") and flat ground.

There are some diamonds among the coal, just gotta find them, glad you found one :cool:

[zenheretic]

zenheretic, I've been browsing these forums for quite some time only felt a need to get involved in this post. Nice conspiracy therory you have there though, still looking for that second gunman on the grassy knoll too ? LOL
Hehe. Let me know when you log your ebay good seller report.

[The Deacon]

(the cheap plastic clip on my Spyderco broke off when I dropped it)Only way I could see an FRN clip breaking from a fall would be if you dunked the knife in LOx for a while first. Perhaps that's why your entire post sounds a bit fishy. :p


a common industrial stainless used in medical instrumentsHmm, sounds like rostfrei surgical stainless to me. :rolleyes:

[HoB]

I would like to applaud smcfalls13 for his excellent and even keeled post.

I fear I have trouble rising to the same. I simply find the wording in this ebaymercial offensive, regardless of what ever the quality of this knife maybe. It starts with the shameless attention seeking title, continues with the reference of the supposed spec ops contract and finishes with the description that I have copied and annotated below.


Tempered Stainless Steel No.420F drop point combo blade (HRC 52).
I fail to see how you are going to achieve performance through tempering in a steel that contains only about 0.15 C. HRc of 52 is probably about the max that you can squeeze out of this steel. It is similar in makeup to 420J. May I invite you to do a search on bladeforums to get an idea of how "highly regarded" 420J is?

Anodized aluminum handle with non-slip machining and lanyard hole
Safety lock with a natural position knurled activator
knurled activator??? Translation: you have jimping on the lockbar of the liner lock....yeah that is really something...not to mention that they forgot to credit the inventor of the superduper uberlock...oh well, unfortunately that is par for the course.
Double blade stud for ambidextrous use
Wow, that's special....unfortunately, they forgot the 2-way mounting (not to mention 4-way mounting like many Spydies have) for the clip. So much for true ambidextrous...
Stainless steel pocket clip
Very novel indeed. Correct me if I am wrong, but I believe there is not a single folder in Spyderco's line up that doesn't have a steel clip...well the salts have a Ti clip. Not to mention the numerous knives from other companies.
Conforms to AISI/ASTM standardsOverall Length: 4.5"(11.5 cm) closed / 7.7"(19.5 cm) open. Blade Length: 3.5"
There is an AISI/ASTM standard for Blade and OA length of a folder????? I would like to see that in writing.
Weight: 4.9oz(139 grams)

$80 (retail, obviously not street) for a folder with a steel that can be stamped, and is hardened to 52 Rc from an unknown company? Who are you kidding? If you don't like Spyderco (the Delica/Endura 4 would be an excellent choice) fine, how about you take a look a the SMBF by Buck which also retails for $80, which you don't have to pay (street price is about $50). You are likely to get a much better knife with a better steel for sure. And LOOK it has a "natural position knurled activator", too :rolleyes: !

The problem with the feedback on ebay is that unfortunately many customers do not even realize how badly they have been duped. If your post is truely genuine (and I have my doubts as Zen's "conspiracy theory" seems rather probable to me), then you, joready, are the perfect example of this sad truth.

[BlackNinja]

Here is the email I got when I asked about the knife:
Joe,
Thanks for browsing our listing. I'm not sure how best to answer your question but here goes. Your asking what the steel is, and stating it is soft ? With a Rockwell of around HRC 51, it is far from soft.
There is so much misinformation floating around the internet forums from people claiming to be experts, we get this question a lot. The 420F we use in this knife is a tempered stainless steel alloy used in high quality knives, surgical instruments, and machine tools. We have these knives in use by our people (cutting wires, ropes, opening packages, cutting seatbelts, etc.) for over 6 months before we sold them to anyone else. I've yet to get one report of this knife not holding an edge or breaking. Every stainless grade has a purpose and trade-off. We specified a knife blade with that would hold an edge, not easily chip or brake if stuck through light metal, and good corrosion resistance. Our engineers and a consulting metallurgist came back with 420F as the best steel for the job. So far everyone has been pleased. Let me know if you have further questions.
Thanks,
Very well put, Scott!