stainless Police model - new versus old?

[Jeff/1911]

Folks,



Here is my dilemma. I am going to buy a plain edged, stainless Police model soon. This will happen as soon as I complete a deal on a couple of fixed blade knives I’ve got going with another forumite.



So, when I make the trip to my local dealer to select my plain edged stainless C07, should I pick a current specimen; “new-in-box” ATS-55 bladed model w/ David Boye dent in it’s locking lever or instead the slightly-used-looking demonstrator model from the showcase. That knife is the older, discontinued version w/ GIN-1 steel and no David Boye dent. Truth is, I think I may like the knife better w/o the DB dent and this is the only way I know to get one; at least locally. Besides, I think I may be able to swing a better deal on the display model.



I currently own a new style serrated stainless Police and it’s become my most-of-the-time EDC due in part to it's visual appeal and slimness. I love this knife. However, I think I’ll probably get even more use out of a plain edged variant and it seems like it might be good to have a slightly different model than my other one. Hmmmmmm.



Your thoughts, my esteemed knife-toting brethren?



Jeff/1911.





Edited by - Jeff/1911 on 8/22/2001 10:01:58 PM

[J Smith]

Not that it is that big of a deal but I prefer no dent.

J Smith

Edited by - J Smith on 8/23/2001 8:12:18 AM

[Jeff/1911]

J Smith,

Interestingly, I am looking forward to owning the bigger version of the knife (Rookie II) you just bought. This way, my friend at work and I compare them. If they are to be as similar as possible, then the "no dent" rule will have to stand.

Below is a picture of the stainless Rookie and Police together, these are of the serrated variety, but you get the idea.

Jeff.



Edited by - Jeff/1911 on 8/23/2001 1:32:33 AM

[Dav]

I don't have a police without a dent. But I do have a calypso. I <do> have a police with a dent. I <much> prefer the dent. I think it's unbelievably finger-friendly and much much easier to find the notch and close.

My $0.02. In any case - good luck and congats on the knife when you get it.

Dav

[scolby]

Although I do not have a Police model knife, I have a other Spyderco's with a dent - notably the SS Rescue Jr. and Native. I much prefer "dented" to non-dented.

Instant lock release find is the best advantage, feels good to the fingers or thumb and I happen to like the way it looks. Good luck deciding.

By the way, the Rookie is smaller than the Police.

"Chance favors the prepared mind" - Louis Pasteur

[Ashram]

I have the "old" police model with the G-2 stainless steel(awesome blade). When i saw that the new ones have the dent, i neatly put one in my lock with my dremel tool. Now its perfect,...well the metal handle could use a little more grip when wet...maybe we could see about some checkering.

[James Y]

I have an ATS-55 plain-edge Police model that does not have the Boye dent. Truth to tell, I may prefer it without the dent, but it is a nice feature to have. Like my fully serrated, my plain-edge(which I had a year before my serrated) is an awesome cutting machine.

I have seen some very old Police models that look like the blade had a thick saber grind instead of the hollow grind. I much prefer the hollow. One thing I do like about the older models is that Gin-1 is more stain-resistant.
Jim

[Jeff/1911]

Ashram, James Y,

Thanks for your response. You've helped a lot. I wondered whether I would be giving up much to choose GIN-1 over ATS-55, as I know that the production change to ATS-55 from GIN-1 was presumably an upgrade... I think I'd find the better stain resistance of GIN-1 a real bonus, perhaps more important than increased edge retention, assuming there is any difference in this area. It's useful to me to hear your favorable opinions of GIN-1.

The idea of getting one of the models that is no longer being produced appeals to me.

Decisions, decisions.

Jeff/1911.

Edited by - Jeff/1911 on 8/27/2001 10:36:22 PM

[J Smith]

When I was looking for info and pics of rookie ll I did not know it was the smaller version of the police. If I had known I would have bought one a long time ago.

J Smith

[knifenerd]

I wonder whether the SS Police models will be continued when the new catalog comes out. There seemed to be a large number of "negative" votes against it in the recent poll.

[Jeff/1911]

Knifenerd,

I don't know of course, but I suspect they'll continue on as I've seen Sal write about how they continue to be a strong seller. Apparently, they sell better than the G-10 versions.

Jeff/1911.

[James Y]

I suspect the SS Police will be around a long time. I have seen many clipped on pockets...it's very easy to recognize. The negative votes on the forums reflect the opinions of only a limited number of potential customers in the overall scheme of things. Plus, it's a proven classic.
Jim

[Jurphaas]

Hello to all of you . My name is Jurphaas and I am a first time guest in this forum. I follow the forum on a regular basis but have not responded before. I must compliment many of you with the patience and courtesy that you've paid my countryman 'Hanibal'. I had a hard time with his posts.
In concern of the Police model, I own a '92 C07TI , a Police Model with ATS-34 blade and titanium handles that I use for my EDC. This is my all time favourite tactical folder.
This specific model was the very first production knife with an ATS-34 blade ever. ATS-34 was the steel of choice with many custom makers in the late 80's and early 90's. Also Titanium had just became more readily available on the open market since the military restrictions on its sale were lifted. This knife was an exclusive from the Cutlery Shoppe and very few were made (1000 pieces -Sal?) . Already Spyderco proofed to be a leader in the industry and has not lost any momentum yet. I happen to know Sal personally and I know that he is always on the look out for the best materials for his knives. Sal is always two to three years ahead in thinking. This makes him an extemely interesting guy.
I believe also that in the view of a collector the old and discontingued models are to be favoured over the new and current models. This might not be true to the user and the EDC knives that will take the road day in, day out. Older models tend to gain in value over the years and will enhance a collection because of their rarety. The Police has been and still is a high volume knife and only the 'specials' as the Ti model and the Gary Blanchard model and the Black-Ti model will gain in value over the years. So far, so good.

[Jeff/1911]

Jurphaas,

Welcome to the forum. Sal sure treats us well, that's sure.

I am envious of your Titanium ATS-34 Police model. That sounds like one great knife. I have kind of decided that the older model is the one I will want too. I have become somewhat of a collector myself, and if I decide after buying the older GIN-1 model that I "need" one in ATS-55 I should be able to obtain one easily enough. The reverse would likely not be true, at least not locally. After playing around with my large Calypso lately (no DB dent) and my serrated S/S Police (DB dent) I think I truly do prefer the model w/o the dent...so that's another reason to opt for the older version.

I appreciate your response, and the benefit of your experience.

Cheers, Jeff/1911.

[knifenerd]

Good to hear that the SS police may be around for a while at least. I am in the market for a PE Police SS.

Since the Police is , for me, primarily an IWB carry, the smooth SS is a pleasure to carry. I sure hope to see it in the "line-up" for the foreseeable future.

[Jeff/1911]

It sounds to me like those of you with GIN-1 equipped Police models are quite happy with the blade performance. This is mostly what I had hoped to determine through this thread.

Any further comments about GIN-1 useability?

Jeff/1911.

[Jeff/1911]

Perhaps I should be more specific with my last question. For those of you who have experience with both ATS-55 and GIN-1; how would you compare them for edge retention, ease of resharpening, and perceived sharpness once you're done.

Does GIN-1 perhaps behave more like AUS-8 than ATS-55? How would you compare their grain structure in terms of "fineness"? I've heard it said that AUS-8 has a very fine grain structure, and this gives it it's reputation for sharpness. I'm using this steel as an example. I love the way AUS-8 gets so insanely sharp with relatively little effort.

Thanks for any help you can offer. Jeff/1911.

[xcentrix]

Hi, I once cut through a car tire , complete with steel belting with a Gin 1 version , didn't do the blade much good but after some sharpening , and polishing with metal polish
the blade was (and still is) almost as good as new .I definitely don't have a problem with Gin 1 .As i don't make a habit out of cutting car tires off their rims I cannot comment on the suitability of ATS 55 for this task !

[Jeff/1911]

xcentrix,

Your story certainly speaks well for the toughness of the GIN-1 blade. How sharp does this knife seem to get, when well sharpened? Is it possible to obtain a shaving edge alright?

Thanks, Jeff.

[J Smith]

I just ran across an ss police new model ATS-55 ser. for 74.99. Is this as good of a deal as I think it is?

J Smith

[xcentrix]

Hi Jeff ,
I've never tried shaving with a spydie -too scared I'll decapitate myself! but it does a pretty neat job of slicing through the photostat paper without any sign of tearing (even after its ordeal!)

[xcentrix]

Edited by - xcentrix on 9/3/2001 1:13:40 PM

[Jeff/1911]

J Smith,

Sounds like a good price to me!

Excentrix,

I was referring to shaving one's arm hair. I understand this to be a common practice for testing knife blade sharpness. Sounds like the GIN-1 blade is just fine. I'll probably have another look at this knife soon. Thanks for the added information.

Jeff/1911.

[haji]

If you want the knife to stay sharp, which is part of it's job, don't go with G2/GIN 1. ATS-55 simply holds an edge much better, and doesn't take much more time to put an edge on. I was sharpening my G2 (yeah, I've owned Spydercos a long time) blade about every four days. My ATS-34/titanium Police about every 10 days to 2 weeks, and the S60V Starmate I carry now has been sharpened three times since about the beginning of March when I got it. BD Detent or not detent really doesn't matter to me. I have knives in hand 40 plus hours a week, and ya just get used to whatever is there. However, my true preference would be for a titanium handled, S60V Police model. Nah, that wouldn't be THAT expensive! <img src="wink.gif" width=15 height=15 align=middle>

Its all fun and games til somebody loses an eye, then its fun annd games you can't see.

[Jeff/1911]

Haji,

That's good to know. Thanks for your response. I guess that's why the change to ATS-55.

How much would you have used your G2-bladed Spyderco to require it to be sharpened every four days? Is it kind of a constant use scenario? I don't use mine a whole lot, most days. Carry much, use little. What would you normally be cutting?

Thanks, Jeff/1911.

Edited by - Jeff/1911 on 9/4/2001 2:52:35 PM

[ftkinney]

i have a ss harpy and think that david boye is a genius. i would try to only get lock backs with the dent, if possible.

FTK

[Jeff/1911]

FTK,

Strangely; I seem to like the David Boye dent on some knives, and not others. On my FRN Native it seems subtle and effective, but on the stainless Police it feels different somehow. Perhaps it is that when I first received this knife, the edges of the DB dent on the locking bar were quite sharp and uncomfortable. I have since smoothened them up and it's much better, but I still think I might enjoy using this knife w/o the dent.

Jeff/1911.

[xcentrix]

Hi Jeff ,
Only after I sent my reply re shaving did I realise what you meant , sorry , not my best while working nightshift ! IF ATS 55 is better than G2 must REALLY BE GOOD !

[Jeff/1911]

Well, I had my mind made up for me today regarding selection of a Police model variant.

My good friend and fellow Spydie collector agreed to trade me his stainless, plain edged Police model in ATS-55 (w/o DB dent) for a pair of fixed blade knives I owned that he wanted and I was comfortable to part with. This was great, as my latest expected knife money has been slow in arriving.

This Police model knife had a reasonably good edge when I got it from him, and now after very little time on the Sharpmaker 204 it is shaving sharp. I had pretty much decided to buy the model in GIN-1 but now I sure am pleased with this one.

The plain edged blade along with the smooth- line appearance of it's spine (a' la' no David Boye dent) is a gorgeous combination. As I mentioned; I own a serrated Police S/S w/ DB dent. It's been fun comparing them so far.

Jeff/1911.

[haji]

Jeff-all day, every day. I work at a large cutlery store, so my knives see a lot of use on harsh stuff like cardboard, packing tape, etc. Edge holding ability shows real fast on that stuff!

Its all fun and games til somebody loses an eye, then its fun annd games you can't see.

[Jeff/1911]

Haji,

I see what you mean. Differences such as these would show up pretty fast during your workday. Thanks for the insight. I'm really glad now that I got the one in ATS-55.

Jeff/1911.

[Sword and Shield]

Welcome to Spydieland, Haji and Jurphaas! <img src="smile.gif" width=15 height=15 align=middle> I believe you will find this one of the overall forums on the Internet, and definitely the most open with information. It's a great forum Sal and co. have maintained for us here, and you will not go away disappointed.

Keepin' it real...real sharp, that is.