Making my own knives?

[smcfalls13]

With school out for the semester, and my girlfriend working at the hospital during the day, I'm going to have a lot of free time on my days off, so I've gotten the brilliant idea in my head that I'm going to try to make some knives.

I know absolutely nothing about making them, so I've bought a few books on the subject, and am currently reading them now. I know a lot of you guys do this as well(I won't be that good, I'll tell you that right now) I've got plenty of raw materials lying around the house from various projects that either never got started, or never got finished. So that's one piece of the puzzle I already have.

I don't trust myself with most power tools, so I'd like to do this all with hand tools if possible(yes I know it will take much longer to do). What tools will I need to get started? I know I'll need files of various sizes, sandpaper, a hacksaw(and lots of replacement blades), a sturdy bench, a vise, a drill(this is the one power tool I know I have to live with.) What else will I need?

For steels, I intend to start with 1095, 440C, and 5160, because they're simple steels to work with.

Aside from what tools I'll need that I'm missing, I'm also wondering about heat treating my own blades. Short of sending them out for heat treating, is there anyway of making/buying something to heat them here. The temperatures etc are all readily available, I'm not worried about that, I'm worried about how I'll actually heat them.

It's kinda obvious this is a fairly recent decision, but any pointers you guys can give me would be appreciated.

[224477]

Just in a short way:

Yeah, Scott, just go for it!!! Worth any second! :cool:

[Dr. Snubnose]

Don't forget the Hammer, Fire and Anvil.... ;) Doc

[smcfalls13]

Don't forget the Hammer, Fire and Anvil.... ;) Doc

I think I'll be sticking with stock removal. Something tells me my neighbors in this townhouse development wouldn't take kindly to me forging in the backyard :p

Though that would be a good way to build my arms up to what Chad thinks they are ;)

[Dr. Snubnose]

I think I'll be sticking with stock removal. Something tells me my neighbors in this townhouse development wouldn't take kindly to me forging in the backyard :p

Though that would be a good way to build my arms up to what Chad thinks they are ;)

LOL....Yeah just wait till they all need horseshoes.... :p Doc :D

[Zwaplat]

Though that would be a good way to build my arms up to what Chad thinks they are ;)


What, by hammering on the anvil or just using the anvil as a lifting weight ? :D

[smcfalls13]

What, by hammering on the anvil or just using the anvil as a lifting weight ? :D

Either would be sufficient to upgrade my "guns" ;)

[uhiforgot]

Scott, enough sharpened steel has been in your hands in your lifetime that you know what you like and what you don't... But most importantly you know what you would CHANGE!!! There is enough steel in the world (in plenty of varieties) that any thoughts can come to fruition. I do suggest, though, that you conquer your fear of power tools... these can be your best friend and keep a great many hairs from being pulled from your head when long and otherwise arduous tasks are involved. No, I don't make knives, but I do know power tools quite well :D

I look forward to seeing your work as I have no doubt you will post it here ;) ...

-Jeff

[The Deacon]

Have fun Scott! For a first project, a blade from Texas Knifemakers Supply (http://www.texasknife.com/), or a complete kit from them or Knifekits.com (http://www.knifekits.com/) might be a good starting point.

[Rob]

Scott, I've made quite a few knives with nothing but hand tools in the past. What you mentioned should be sufficient to start things off. The only thing I would recommend is to get one of these things (no idea how they are called in English :o ) that allow you to handle a regular hand drill like a drill press. This is what I mean:

http://www.heimwerker.de/thema/holz_kreativ/pix/basis/bohren/bohrstaender.jpg

These things are a lot cheaper than a real drill press but they allow you to drill holes more precisely in a 90° angle. Good enough if you don't want to make a folding knife. When I started making knives a couple of years ago, I tried to drill the holes in the tang of my first knife "free hand". That was a bad idea when you consider that you have to get matching holes (i.e. lining up) in three different pieces of material :)

As for the files, I would not only suggest to get different sizes but also different grits. Use the coarse ones to remove material fast, flatten out the surface with the medium grit ones, then treat the surface with the finest files you have. This way you won't have to rub the steel for ages with sanding paper - filing is a lot faster. Backing sanding paper up with something hard (piece of Micarta, hard leather,...) also helps to create an even surface while satinizing and also to prevent all edges from getting rounded.

Although I've made over 20 knives in total, I've never done the heat treatment myself for three reasons. 1) The ovens are very expensive 2) Its not that easy to get it right. 3) I have no possibility to test the hardness.

Therefore I always sent my knife blanks either to a knifemaker who hardened them for me or to a commercial company who did the job. Both were well worth the money but I'd tend to the knifemaker because if the blade gets bent, knifemakers can staigten it out while the commercial companies just will return the blank to you no matter how it looks - even when a banana seems straight compared to your knife.

What else? Ah, yes! Security! Be careful when you are working on the handle material. The dust of some woods can cause allergic reactions instantly (e.g. Cocobolo and other tropical woods) or cancer when inhaled (e.g. Oak and others). G-10, CF and Micarta are also known for causing cancer and other lung diseases so make sure ALWAYS to wear a respirator when you work on such materials. Also do wear gloves resistant to chamicals when you glue the scales on the tang with epoxy. There are toxic substances in this glue that will damage your liver after skincontact. Goggles can't hurt either while drilling.

If you have any questions, need tips and tricks at some stages of the process or whatever, please feel free to send me an email (if you like), as I could go on like that for hours :) I always like to help, so if I can just let me know!

Oh, a last thing. Be more confident about the hand tools! Yes, it will take a little longer. 20 to 30 hours of work will result in a wonderful knife, but it's worth the time! I've posted this knife somewhere on this forum already, but here it is again as a little motivation:

http://www.unet.univie.ac.at/~a0447076/mepics/frioffen.jpg

I made this little friction folder with hand tools too, so everything is possible!

Cheers, Rob

[JaM]

Wow... nice knife ! And nice links, too.
smcfalls13, if you DO make some, please post the pictures !

[Piet.S]

Allright Scott, that's the spirit.
Rob has told you about everything and he's right.
Get good quality files, you will love them.
Use them only on steel, get other ones if you need to work on other materials like brass, bronze or nickelsilver.
Most of all, take your time, don't rush it.
You also may find a lot of information at www.knifelinksportal.com
Select "all sorts of knifelinks" and look for the tutorials section.
Good luck and ENJOY, and yes we all love pictures of your work.

Another example of what can be done with hand tools.
The greatest powertool is your mind, the rest is just interface.

[Rob]

Most of all, take your time, don't rush it.

I'll second that!

Piet, that's one beautiful knife! The blade is Damasteel, right?

Cheers, Rob

[Piet.S]

Yes it is Rob, the pattern is called two sides.
A bit more in detail.

[butch]

if you need anything stop on by or drop me a line
ive been trying my hand at making sharp things for about 3 years not
got a mill
drill
small grinder
buffer
kiln and some other odds and ends
i can help you out on heat treating
also i have some extra cpm10v if you would like to try that out
PM me and we can get things worked out
also there is a blacksmithing days down in westminster this weekend i ll be there for a little tomarow

[smcfalls13]

I do suggest, though, that you conquer your fear of power tools...

It's not so much a fear of power tools as it is knowing that if I make a mistake with a power tool, it's much harder to fix ;)


Have fun Scott! For a first project, a blade from Texas Knifemakers Supply (http://www.texasknife.com/), or a complete kit from them or Knifekits.com (http://www.knifekits.com/) might be a good starting point.

I may do just that. Haven't quite decided yet.

Rob, that "drill press" setup looks pretty darn useful, I'll definitely have to look into that. I'll also be looking into the safety stuff as well. I've already got safety glasses, but will need a respirator(knew that already) and good gloves(didn't know this, good thing I asked).

And I definitely would prefer to use hand tools. There's just something attractive about creating a knive use nothing but simple tools, and my own skill(if I even have any ;) )


Wow... nice knife ! And nice links, too.
smcfalls13, if you DO make some, please post the pictures !

If I didn't post pictures, I think I'd be run off this forum :p


Get good quality files, you will love them.


Any particular brand I should look at?

Thanks for the help and encouragement guys, kinda makes me want to get started today, but I still need some stuff. :cool:

[uhiforgot]

It's not so much a fear of power tools as it is knowing that if I make a mistake with a power tool, it's much harder to fix ;)
True, but I see this more as you not trusting yourself. Powertools you KNOW you've made a mistake instantly.... hand tools you don't realize until later you've made a mistake because you got into a rhythm working a piece. That, and sometimes you will find that a "mistake" can turn into something really cool if you know how to improvise ;)

-Jeff

[Piet.S]

Any particular brand I should look at?

Not really, though I personaly like Dick, from Germany.
Just when it comes to files, go for quality stuff, it lasts longer too.

[Dannyvi]

Go for it, Scott! I just finished one(blade ground by Gene Ingram to my design)with a framelock. First one I did from scratch turned out okay. I did make some cardboard templates first to know where to cut, etc.. I used titanium and carbon fiber.I think basically you should have a drill press, bandsaw(a must)dremel tool and some cutters. I bought mine on clearance from Sears. If you want I can send you pics of my first ever folder. Good luck and persevere. Just be careful with power tools as they are scary!I know, I am everytime I use it!

[ront]

Scott, let me know when you are ready to sell one :).

Ron

[butch]

Go for it, Scott! I just finished one(blade ground by Gene Ingram to my design)with a framelock. First one I did from scratch turned out okay. I did make some cardboard templates first to know where to cut, etc.. I used titanium and carbon fiber.I think basically you should have a drill press, bandsaw(a must)dremel tool and some cutters. I bought mine on clearance from Sears. If you want I can send you pics of my first ever folder. Good luck and persevere. Just be careful with power tools as they are scary!I know, I am everytime I use it!
waht if other ppl want to see your knife :)
post it fro all
butch

[Dannyvi]

I tried to, Butch but it keeps coming back too large and I just don't know how to make it smaller. If somebody can post if for me, I would be glad to show it. I am just computer illiterrate,sorry.Thanks. :o

[smcfalls13]

I tried to, Butch but it keeps coming back too large and I just don't know how to make it smaller. If somebody can post if for me, I would be glad to show it. I am just computer illiterrate,sorry.Thanks. :o

Shoot it my way, I'll put it up for you.

smcfalls@hotmail.com

[Dannyvi]

Shoot it my way, I'll put it up for you.

smcfalls@hotmail.com
Thanks, Scott! You've done a lot of favors to me already. Hope I can do the same for you one day.

[smcfalls13]

DannyVi's first knife.

http://i24.photobucket.com/albums/c43/smcfalls13/DannyV1.jpg

http://i24.photobucket.com/albums/c43/smcfalls13/DannyV2.jpg


And current ZDP Project:

http://i24.photobucket.com/albums/c43/smcfalls13/Caly.jpg

[butch]

nice clean work
keep it up
butch

[smcfalls13]

True, but I see this more as you not trusting yourself.

Bingo ;) That's exactly what it is.

I've got a few weeks before I'll actually be able to get down to work, because I need to gather supplies, and I'd like to read through the books I've gotten. I'd rather not just jump in, but have at least some knowledge ahead of time.

I'll start with something simple. My first will be a fixed blade, 1095 or 440C(still haven't decided).

So while I'm waiting, any design requests? Blade shape, handle, etc? I'm open to suggestions.

[Piet.S]

Go for a simple design and concentrate on the cleanliness of your work.
No one is waiting for the next wild design but nice clean work is allways proof of ones abbillities.
May I suggest a full tang design, not too large, just handle slabs.
You could go for a sabre grind and try to obtain a nice crisp grindline.
Don't forget symmetry.
If you mess it you can save it by moving the grindline up a little bit towards the spine.
Usualy a first knife ends as a flat grind so don't feel frustrated about it.
This way you will learn how to file a good blade in a short time because you are working on what really counts.
Welcome to the brotherhood of knifemakers, there are sisters too btw.
The first and golden rule is this one. (known by all knifemakers)
If you think you might get something finnished if you press on a bit, lay down your tools, get a beer and call it a day.
This will save you from ruining days of work in mere minutes.

[spydutch]

Good luck with it Scott :cool:

I'm very anxious to see the results ;)

[Rob]

You could go for a sabre grind and try to obtain a nice crisp grindline. Don't forget symmetry.

Hmmm... I disagree with Piet. If I was you, I went for a full flat grind on the first knife. It is definitely the easiest sort of grind that can be made with files as you don't have to fear "uneven" grindlines, or lines that are not symmetrical. A grind that goes all the way up to the spine is really the easiest. This way you'll also get a very sharp knife (i.e. the cross section of the blade will have a lower angle on the cutting edge). Just my opinion :) Other than that I agree with everything that Piet said :D

About symmetry: I am not familiar with drill bits in imperial measurements so I can only speak for metrical drill bits but I guess the system could be the same. To get a symmetrical blade I do the following: Let's say I am going to use a steel with a thickness of 3 mm then I'll take a drill bit that is made for a diameter of 1/10 or 2/10 above or below (so 3,2 mm, 3,1 mm, 2,9 mm and 2,8 mm will work). Then I put my knife blank on a flat surface like a thick piece of glass or something similar and scratch a line into the side of by knife blank where the cutting edge is going to be. After that I turn the blank on the other side and do the same again. This will result in two parallel lines on the edge of the blank where the edge will soon be. Exactly in the middle of these two lines is the middle of the material, so all you have to do now is to file everything away until you reach one of te lines, then turn the blank around and do the same. Using this method enables you to make symmetrical blades with 1/10 or 2/10 or a mm material left on the cutting edge so that they survive heattreatment well.

I always went down to 1/10 because I was too lazy to remove more than that from a blade of HRc 61 to create the final cutting edge by hand, but it really depends on the steel you are using and the method of heat treatment (oven vs. fire).

I hope that helps a little ;)

Cheers, Rob

Edited to add:

DannyVi, that is your FIRST knife?!?! :eek: :eek: :eek:
Very impressive, really! I wish my first knife had been looking like that!

[smcfalls13]

I always went down to 1/10 because I was too lazy to remove more than that from a blade of HRc 61 to create the final cutting edge by hand, but it really depends on the steel you are using and the method of heat treatment (oven vs. fire).

I hope that helps a little ;)

Cheers, Rob

Actually it does, that was going to be one of my questions later. Thanks.

I'd read about scratching the line intot he steel to "form" the edge, so it's good to hear that confirmed as a good idea.

Steel is going to be 440C, just because it's the perfect overall steel in my opinion. I don't think I have the capacity to heat it the proper temperature, I'll have to do a little more research to find out proper temperatures.

[Rob]

Scott, data for 440C can easily be found. Take a look at the data sheet (http://www.440c.co.uk/N695DE.pdf) of the steel that Böhler provides. You should be able to find everything that you need in there. The PDF also contains the information in English.

But, as I already said, I wouldn't do the heat treatment myself. Letting it be done is more secure, usually you are provided with the exact hardness and it's really not expensive (at least over here).

Cheers, Rob

Edited to add:
(Where's my brain today :rolleyes: ) Another thing that might turn out useful for your project: Buy Cobalt drill bits if you can get them! The reason is simple. If you try to use HSS drill bits, two things will happen: 1) You'll need a couple of them (actually quite a lot :p ) because they wear out fast on high quality steel and 2) You'll have a hard time to get some holes into your steel :) The Cobalt drill bits are a bit more expensive but believe me, they are worth ervery penny! They'll cut into ste steel much better and they stay sharp longer. I used a 4 mm Co-bit for about 40 holes in N690 until I had to replace it. To use them is simple: Just let the machine run slowly (800 - 900 rpm is enough), don't use much pressure on them (they'll do the work, not you) and lastly: use some cutting oil. If the oil starts to smoke you are drilling too fast with too much pressure, so the drill bit gets too hot. That's it :D Oh, and do ALL the drilling BEFORE hardening the knife :D Don't laugh, it happened to me once that I forgot one hole and had to deal with over 60 HRc. Not funny at all ;)

[smcfalls13]

What would be the appropriate tool to use for shaping bolsters? Files seem overkill, would coarse sandpaper be sufficient?

[Axlis]

Best of luck on this venture Scott, I would love to try a hand at knifemaking myself one day.

Wharnies and Hawkbills ALL day long! :D

[smcfalls13]

Best of luck on this venture Scott, I would love to try a hand at knifemaking myself one day.

Wharnies and Hawkbills ALL day long! :D

That's the goal, a wharnie should be easy to start with, but unless I'm a prodigy and don't know it yet(not likely) a Hawkbill is going to be pretty tough straight out of the gate.

That's not to say I won't try, I just post the horrifying results :p

[Rob]

What would be the appropriate tool to use for shaping bolsters? Files seem overkill, would coarse sandpaper be sufficient?

IMO that depends on the material. Softer metals like brass, nicklesilver, bronze and the like can be shaped with coarse sanding paper. Don't use the paper stuff for this. Get some where the abrasive is on cloth. If yo tear it in stripes it's great for profiling or finishing softer materials.

If you want to give the bolsters an other shape than very slightly rounded, I'd put them in the vise and work on them with files first before sanding them.

I've never made a knife with bolsters myself as I am not the bolster type of guy but if I had to, this would be the way I'd go for it.

Cheers, Rob

[dialex]

Good luck Scott and don't forget to keep us updated.
Thanks everyone for the input and for the pics, always something to learn.

[224477]

Rob, that wharnie is simply awesome :eek: !!!
Looks simillar to the Yojimbo or Ronin style.. Very nice :)

[fret]

You may be able to see this site to help you get started.
http://hossom.com/tutorial/jonesy/
Has some photos too. Hope this helps. By:

Scott "Jonesy" Jones

Knifemaker
That's his website, not mine.

[mr.vu]

Hey Scott,

Im thinking about it too. A friend of mine recently lent me some good reading material. I haven't read them yet, just skimmed through them. They might be very helpful in your endeavor.

The Tactical Folding Knife by Bob Terzuola.

Wayne Goddard's $50 Knife Shop by Wayne Goddard.

http://www.knivesby.com/Anderson1.html

Good luck!!

Vu

[smcfalls13]

You may be able to see this site to help you get started.
http://hossom.com/tutorial/jonesy/


Awesome, I've got it bookmarked now.




Wayne Goddard's $50 Knife Shop by Wayne Goddard.


This one I already have, but the other two I'll have to check out. Thanks. :cool:

[butch]

The Tactical Folding Knife Bob Terzuola
good book i have it if you want to barrow it

i just got to find it or ask duff if he might still have it
butch
also duff and i might fire up the forge this weekend if anyone wants to try pounding hot steel
we re not real good at it but it is fun :)

[smcfalls13]

As with everything I try to plan, the plan has changed. ;)

My original plan was a little inconsistent with my taste, so it's going to be modified slightly. I was originally going to make a fixed blade, because that would be the simplest design given the meager tools I have.

Problem is I rarely use fixed blades, and I wanted to make something I'd actually use, so the game plan changed. :p

I'll try and keep the finished product a surprise, but I'll likely continue to ask very cryptic questions as I need help. Some of you may figure out what I'm making though... :rolleyes:

I know my own weaknesses, and I know my strengths, so this design and it's construction will play to my strengths hopefully. :cool:

[Piet.S]

Well what ever it is, go do it.

[mr.vu]

Any updates Scott?

Vu

[speyederlover]

O1 is a good steel to use if you want to grind the blade by hand. It's easy to heat treat too.

[smcfalls13]

Any updates Scott?

Vu

Not yet. I haven't had the free time I thought I would. In fact, with school out, somehow I find that I now have LESS time than I did before. Haven't figured out how that happened... :confused:

Nothing yet.