Al Zarqawi Dead!

[WORKER#9]

that is all!

[David Lowry]

While I'm glad they got him, I am really not sure the difference it will make.

I wish it were different but I really don't know.

I'm not at all suggesting that we shouldn't have got him, as I think we should and I'm glad we did. I just don't think it will stop anything.

;)

[brainus]

When do military air strikes become political assassination?

[psimonl]

The morning of September 11, 2001, we entered a new area. And historically, an area lasts at least a couple of decades, if not century...

There are only officers among terrorists, but no leader that, once killed, will leave the others no other choice but run away and hide.

It is easier to hate than understand. This apply to both camps...

Simon

[CopilotATS-55]

Hell Yes :D

[spydermdz]

Praise the Lord. the real Lord, Jesus Christ.



Edited***

[HoB]

As much as this satisfies some of my personal hunger for revenge I would have to agree with psimonl: In the big picture only an insignificant triumph.



Edited***

And shouts like this make me very sure that there will never be peace in my lifetime. Makes me very sad. Not to mention that I think it shows imaturity on several levels: to wish someone dead requires first the acceptance that he/it exsists. Also, I am sure that the terrorists flying into the WTC were dying with a similar call on their lips. Is it really necessary to stoop to the same level?

[smcfalls13]

Edited***

Please don't make the mistake of condemning all Muslims because of the actions of a few misguided individuals. It's not fair to make comments like this, there are plenty of upstanding Muslim people, both in this country and abroad.

I understand you're trying to be patriotic, but the problem with patriotism is that there is a point where it becomes fanatacism. Be careful with such comments, because I see little difference between fanatic patriotism and terrorism. To them, we're the terrorist, and they're the patriots.

It all depends on your perspective.

[StuntDouble]

Don't believe for a second that his death is going to make a difference. The thing about tyrants, and "terrorists", is that there is always someone to take their place.

[TazKristi]

Edited posts as needed...I'm hoping this thread will go somewhere good. Please keep it civil... and it will stay open...

This is a heated discussion, but there is no need to add fuel to the fire here.

Thanks!

Kristi

[smcfalls13]

Edited posts as needed...I'm hoping this thread will go somewhere good. Please keep it civil... and it will stay open...

This is a heated discussion, but there is no need to add fuel to the fire here.

Thanks!

Kristi

Thank you Kristi.

[Jimd]

Will it make a huge difference? Maybe not.

Then again, what's a better suggestion? Should we not kill these vermin? Should we hope that they'll suddenly or eventually grow weary of killing us? That is not going to happen.

I do not consider animals like Zarqawi to be human, and believe they should be exterminated, and that we're on the right track by doing so. If they stayed "over there", it would be another matter entirely. However, I'm sure that if the 3,000 or so people that were barbequed in the World Trade Centers could testify, they'd agree that the enemy is bringing the fight to us, and reciprocating is the only way to pre-emptively and positively react.

[Vincent]

show me a body then il belive it.

[spydermdz]

i am sorry that my angst for people that hate you and want your wives and husbands dead and would slit the throats of your kids.. i am sorry i apologize. are you kidding me. this is not civil. zarqawi was NOT a human. he is scum. he deserves to burn in hell. and if that is editted, man, this forum isnt an advocate of the 1st amendment, thats for sure.. how can you take up for someone who saws off the heads of innocent americans! how! and to say that all muslims arent the same... they all believe in the koran. the koran preaches DEATH TO THE INFIDEL. if you dont know, the infidel is YOU and i. anyone who isnt Muslim. how can someone that believes that be considered civil or respected? i am not going to post anymore in this thread because it is obvious that people cannot speak what they feel. i guarantee it that if a muslim or arab came in here and said things like, zarqawi is a martyr, and similiar bull****, no one would edit his post. because **** like that is called "free speech." i just think that editting things that people post that dont threaten others (threatening as in personal safety) shouldnt be editted. i made no threats to anyone. i just stated my opinion and i should have the right to do that. if this offends any of the mods, i am sorry but this is a topic that really pisses me off.

[Cameron23]

I think it is interesting (and telling) that there are/were people demonstrating on both sides in the Mid-East because of this. Some in Jordan marking him as a Martyr and others (Bagdad for example) celebrating that he is no longer around.

I've been doing quite a bit a research on this lately (as I do) and for all intents and purposes everyone agrees that there will never be "peace" in the Middle East. Only periods where people are too afraid to retaliate for whatever misdeeds have been done to them (and over there...everyone has had misdeeds done to them), usually when there is a powerful (and ruthless) dictator figure in control. This is not to say that Saddam H. should not have been removed from power, etc., etc. But figures like Saddam will always look for and achieve power in this part of the world... unfortunately it's just the way the world works over there.

I won't go into the whole "we did it for oil" vs. "we did it because it was the right thing to do and no one else would" debate, as there really is no nice and neat answer to these debates.

I will say that I thank God (capital "G" in whatever book you read...if you read one) that I live in a country where I do not have to worry on a day-to-day basis whether or not a bomb will blow up on my block, or if a group of men from a different part of my same religion will decide that I am somehow a threat to their way of life. And that I worry for those that do. I worry for both their safety and the fact that the environment in which they were born into and live often propigates itself.

Here's to hoping....

C :spyder:

[David Lowry]

Will it make a huge difference? Maybe not.

Then again, what's a better suggestion? Should we not kill these vermin? Should we hope that they'll suddenly or eventually grow weary of killing us? That is not going to happen.

I do not consider animals like Zarqawi to be human, and believe they should be exterminated, and that we're on the right track by doing so. If they stayed "over there", it would be another matter entirely. However, I'm sure that if the 3,000 or so people that were barbequed in the World Trade Centers could testify, they'd agree that the enemy is bringing the fight to us, and reciprocating is the only way to pre-emptively and positively react.

Very well said. I have to agree with that.

[Jimd]

show me a body then il belive it.

Photos are posted on AOL news and other news. I'm not sure it would be practical to ship the stinking carcass for you to inspect. :D

I wish they'd stuff him with pig innards and hang him from a pole in the desert for the other sub-humans to see until his carcass rots and is no more.

Want to fight us? Want to murder our families? Want to barbeque our countrymen? Want to slowly cut innocent, peaceful americans' heads off on video? Then face the wrath.

I believe in the "Live and Let Live" policy, until someone makes war with us. And then I believe the gloves should come off.

There is no civilized way to fight a war. Trying to be nice while fighting a war is insanity and denial at it's finest. Fight to win, fight to get it over with as quickly as possible, so hopefully peace can be resumed.

[Vincent]

This guy was Nobody, not a big deal if ya ask me
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/04/09/AR2006040900890_pf.html

[BlackNinja]

This guy was Nobody, not a big deal if ya ask me
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/04/09/AR2006040900890_pf.html
I'm with you, Vincent! How many times have we captured or killed the "number 2 or 3 guy" now? :rolleyes:

[smcfalls13]

how can you take up for someone who saws off the heads of innocent americans! how! and to say that all muslims arent the same... they all believe in the koran. the koran preaches DEATH TO THE INFIDEL.

No. It doesn't. The Koran actually preaches tolerance for other religions, much like other monotheistic religions. ALL religions claim theirs is the true one, and often have passages in their holy scriptures which basically take pot shots against other religions. It's engineered into the religion to gather followers with either benefits or threats, depending on the religion.


i guarantee it that if a muslim or arab came in here and said things like, zarqawi is a martyr, and similiar bull****, no one would edit his post. because **** like that is called "free speech." i just think that editting things that people post that dont threaten others (threatening as in personal safety) shouldnt be editted.

First of all, Zarqawi IS a Martyr, he died for a cause he believes in, and his death will breed more terrorism. That is a martyr in my book. I don't like the fact that he is, but I can't change it.

Your comment wasn't threatening, but it was extremely offensive. Put it in perspective and insert whatever deity you worship, how would you feel?


i made no threats to anyone. i just stated my opinion and i should have the right to do that. if this offends any of the mods, i am sorry but this is a topic that really pisses me off.

No, you didn't make any threats to anyone, you just made a blanket statement that affected all members of the Muslim faith.

You have the right to state your opinion, and I agree with the spirit of your post, but I disagree with how you expressed it.

I understand this topic pisses you off, it pisses all of us off. I bet not a single one of us here doesn't want everyone of those b******s dead, but if we start attacking every member of that faith, we are no different than they are.

Terrorists kill anyone who serves their purpose, even non violent by-standers. If we start making blanket statements like yours, what's to stop us from saying "Oh it's just a Muslim, he must be a terrorist, let's kill him anyway"

Than we become the terrorists.

Basically, what I'm saying is kill those who would kill us, but leave the others be.

[Hannibal Lecter]

My Dear Friend,


i am not going to post anymore in this thread because it is obvious that people cannot speak what they feel.

Please pause for a moment in your ire and reconsider your hostility.

This is public forum operated by the good graces of Sal Glesser and Spyderco. I liken it to the living room at Sal's private residence. I will post nothing here that I would not say to your face personally with all other forum members and Sal present.

We are all guests here and should conduct ourselves as such. You are free to participate in polite discussion. You are equally free to leave if you are incapable of doing so for whatever reason.

The First Amendment should not apply in the private residence of another person in the same way it does publicly. Please treat the forum with the respect it deserves. My knifebrothers and knifesisters may be Christian, Muslim, Hindu, Wiccan or otherwise; it matters not. I will be polite and considerate of them while I am in Sal's house regardless of my personal feelings concerning their beliefs.

I might suggest your attempting to do the same. :D

------------------
Dr. Hannibal Lecter

[*Cho*]

they all believe in the koran. the koran preaches DEATH TO THE INFIDEL. if you dont know, the infidel is YOU and i.

The Koran allows for Jihad, but to a true Muslim and not a fanatic/terrorist, Jihad can only be waged against people who are actually attacking you. In a Jihad you do not kill innocent people, you do not kill women, you do not kill children. Life is the most precious thing to anyone of the Muslim faith which is why a true Jihad has such strict rules. Also suicide is forbidden in the Koran so suicide bombers are not doing themselves any favors.

The terrorists who are using jihad as an excuse to kill are betraying their faith and its beliefs. To make matters worse they are preying on the young and angry. And when people make stupid and ignorant pharses which incorperate the good with the bad it just makes their job easier.

When is the last time you saw someone who preeches about suicide attacks actually carry it out themselves, or their kids carried it out for that matter? NEVER because the use the weak minded / expandable ones.

It is good that he is dead. Good for everyone, for Americans, for Canadians and for Muslims.

[Chucula]

my 2 cents: terrorism is an idea, not a person or an organization. I think killing people who act through terrorism is not a long term solution, although it is important in the process. After the adult terrorists are killed, there needs to be education. I think with education comes progress. and i will probably edit this a few times :D

[spydermdz]

first things first. i apologize for offending anyone.

and i want to commend you all on your responses to my responses. i will say with the calm sentiment you delivered your retorts in, it calmed me and leveled my head. i have never come across people in a forum that accept your opinion and then are nice when disagreeing with you. you guys got me utmost respect. and to the guy who said this is sal's living room, i agree. that is a GREAT point and i am sorry for lashing out. i just hate people who kill my fellow americans, REGARDLESS of your religion. i just have a tendency to stigmatize muslims because they are the religion that those people cling to, my fault. once again, my attidue has changed (thoughts remain) but i am very impressed with the caliber of people in this forum, minus a few. (the one guy who called me an asshole) aside from him, you fellas are good folk. God Bless America.

[HoB]

I don't think they shouldn't be sought out and even be killed if necessary (and I have my doubts that such people would allow to be taken alive), but to make out of his death a huge sucess story I don't think is justified. That his death is a huge blow to Al Quaeda as President Bush said, I don't believe one moment. The worst is, that I am pretty sure he (or at least his more intelligent advisors) is believing this neither. So in a way this is misleading the public. It reminds me of the day he stood on board an aircraft carrier about 2 years ago and decleared that the war is over.... But, I might be proven wrong, we just have to wait and see and hope for the best. It's one of those times I wouldn't mind being wrong.

And the real critic in me has the same doubts as Vincent. Is he really dead? Well, actually I do think he is probably dead, whether I trust those pictures is a diffent story. Pictures can easily be doctored...there is nothing that lies more convincingly than a photo. The reason I have my doubts is how well he appears to be preserved in those photos. They dropped 2 (!) 500 kg bombs on a single house...a HOUSE, not a bunker! What are the chances that Zarqawi (or any other human being in that house) remains conveniently recognizable and identifiable. I would have expected that they would have to make an identification by some teeth they dug out of the rubble.

Oh well, just some musing...

A BIG thank you, Taz, for keeping us in line!!!

[smcfalls13]

i just hate people who kill my fellow americans, REGARDLESS of your religion. i just have a tendency to stigmatize muslims because they are the religion that those people cling to

It's not good to stigmatize, but let's face it, it's going to happen, we're only human. If I were attacked by a different guy wearing a red shirt every day on your way to work, eventually I'd start being afraid of people wearing red shirts. Same principle applies to the terrorists.

If we keep getting attacked by members of a certain faith, eventually we associate that faith with the attack(and not the person). It works across the boards with any faith. It is common stereotype that members of the Jewish faith have money, which stems from a large proportion of the Jewish population controlling money historically. I could provide even more examples of this kinda of logic, but I think you get the point.

Heck, works the same way with gun violence. Blaming the gun for the death is akin to blaming Islam for the terrorists. Blame the person who's responsible.

Your apology is accepted spydermdz, and let me apologize as well if anything I said came off as harsh. It wasn't intended as such.

[Michael Cook]

:spyder: Perhaps now we can quit messing around with bush's pet project and redirect some of those wonderful brave troops currently mired in Iraq to Afghanistan where they could actually fight a war on terrorism and maybe even go after Osama bin Ladin, you know, the murdering terorist who destroyed our buildings and citizens? Bush doesn't seem to like talking about him any more but I for one will not forget what he did despite bush and cheney's distractions. :spyder:

[Jim Malone]

Although the killing of a human beeing is IMHO always wrong, i can not help myself get rid of the feeling that the killing of Mr zarqawi in the long run is a positive thing. I hope that now the senseless slaying of any human life in Iraq will cease.

The fact that a woman and a child were also killed in the neutralisation of Mr zarqawi is and stays a sad event. Collateral damage to innocent people, even "calculated" stays regretable.

I know this post might sound weird at first, but "killing" should always be the last resort. I believe due to the person and location of Mr Zarqawi this was a valid operation, but try to be compassionate towards the innocent victims killed as collateral damage.

just my 2 cents

[Michael Cook]

The fact that a woman and a child were also killed in the neutralisation of Mr zarqawi is and stays a sad event. Collateral damage to innocent people, even "calculated" stays regretable.

I know this post might sound weird at first, but "killing" should always be the last resort. I believe due to the person and location of Mr Zarqawi this was a valid operation, but try to be compassionate towards the innocent victims killed as collateral damage.

just my 2 cents

:spyder: In a region where children are used in the intafada it can be pretty hard to find one of these "innocents" of which you speak. :spyder:

[dialex]

There is no civilized way to fight a war. Trying to be nice while fighting a war is insanity and denial at it's finest.
Unfortunately, this is true. They say in love and war everything is allowed (with a few reasonable doubts when it comes to love).


my 2 cents: terrorism is an idea, not a person or an organization. I think killing people who act through terrorism is not a long term solution, although it is important in the process. After the adult terrorists are killed, there needs to be education. I think with education comes progress. and i will probably edit this a few times
Actually, terrorism is a technique. It belongs to the 4th generation warfare. More on this subject here (http://www.d-n-i.net/lind/lind_archive.htm) it's pretty instructive.

[spydermdz]

:spyder: Perhaps now we can quit messing around with bush's pet project and redirect some of those wonderful brave troops currently mired in Iraq to Afghanistan where they could actually fight a war on terrorism and maybe even go after Osama bin Ladin, you know, the murdering terorist who destroyed our buildings and citizens? Bush doesn't seem to like talking about him any more but I for one will not forget what he did despite bush and cheney's distractions. :spyder:



cook, your post is so true that it hurts to read... i agree wholeheartedly man. bush and the white house have lost sight of why is responsible for 9.11. i will be voting DEMOCRAT in 2008 without a doubt. go ahead brand me as a liberal.... i just hope its Gore instead of Clinton....

[StuntDouble]

Michael Cook,

Perhaps it would be even better for us to redirect all our troops home until someone capable actually comes up with a real plan for ending this war. Maybe I've bought into the media machine, but it seems to me all our troops are doing right now is sitting around waiting to be attacked, because there is no longer any real plan?

[flipe8]

My own thoughts on the war aren't important, but now that it has been started, I feel the coallition troops must stay until some form of stability has been established. I understand this may take many years more, but to abandon Iraq in its current state would almost certainly lead to civil war with other Middle Eastern countires getting involved further destabilizing the region. Once that happened, Isreal would most definately become a target(more so than now). To pull out would be a loss of face internationally for the States and would encourage more attacks against Western nations as it would be seen as a victory for the extemists and an abandonment of the Iraqis making it impossible to be trusted at all by that region(if that hasn't already taken place).
As far as publicly displaying Al Zarqawi for all to see, that's just to show us the troops are "getting it done". I truly feel a better tactic would be to hunt these enemies down and eliminate them without making much of it as those whom really need to know, the terrorists, would find out very quicky through their own channels. Not only would they find out, but it would most likely be demoralizing to not be made into celebrities for their cause. We don't make a big deal about killing rats in our house, we just get rid of them all. The message would become pretty clear; you're being hunted for as long as it takes. You better keep moving, eventhough that only prolongs the inevitable-your death. Once you're gone, no martyrdom, no publicity, just leave your body where you were killed and on to the next "leader". And not just that person, everyone whom would be associated with him, be it his four year old daughter on his eighty six year old great aunt. Make it like he never existed. Gone. All of a sudden, maybe the sympathisers wouldn't be as inclined to aid and hide these criminals once they understood their heads and their families' heads were on the chopping block as well. It's just my opinion and I know it's harsh, but we're in this now and I don't see any peaceful resolution.

[bowarrow2000]

Maybe we needa Gen. Sherman, War between the States General Sherman.
Burn it all.

[Chucula]

Actually, terrorism is a technique. It belongs to the 4th generation warfare. More on this subject here (http://www.d-n-i.net/lind/lind_archive.htm) it's pretty instructive.

hmm. semantics. ;)

[WORKER#9]

cook, your post is so true that it hurts to read... i agree wholeheartedly man. bush and the white house have lost sight of why is responsible for 9.11. i will be voting DEMOCRAT in 2008 without a doubt. go ahead brand me as a liberal.... i just hope its Gore instead of Clinton....

Totally untrue, There is no one Bush and Cheney would rather get then Osama. I am sure Bush wants him "handled" before he leaves office.

You will be voting for the party not the person and you don't even know who it is yet? WOW!!

I would not vote for Billary Clinton if my life depended on it!

[AllenETreat]

The way I look at it, Al Zarqawi was an important part of the terrorist
infrastructure of the Iraqi insurgency. While it may not stop the insurgency
with Zarqawi being a "martyr" ( as his own hail him ) it may slow it down
a bit. What I'm realing wondering is that, with all this technology, why
hasn't OBL ( Osama Bin Laden ) been caught or killed?

Personally I wish this war was over, but I don't see that happening soon.
Even the democrats ( Sen. Lieberman is one ) support this quagmire.


AET :D

[Vincent]

eww a Liberal!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[The Deacon]

I am happy that he is dead, even if it accomplishes nothing else but to rid the planet of one particularly offensive person.

I agree that we should be careful to only target those in the Muslim community who have already taken innocent life, or are training/preparing to do so. I also think that, once identified, we should attempt to eliminate them with as little collateral damage as reasonably possible without compromising the success of the excision.

That said, I would suggest that the past and current actions of fanatical Muslim groups and individuals have placed the shadow of suspicion on all members of their faith. Put simply, determining which members of the Muslim community will become treats next week, next month or next year, and which ones will not, is impossible. Even determining which ones pose a more imminent threat can be extremely difficult without taking measures that some may perceive as violations of human rights. As an example, the apologists and bleeding hearts have already begun to cry foul over aspects of the surveilance that lead to the recent arrests in Canada of 17 Muslim terrorists, many of whom had not shown any overt hostility towards their non-Muslim neighbors.

Like it or not, the safest course of action is watchful suspicion. I love dogs, and it would pain me deeply to have to kill one, but I would not hestiate to kill one if it attacked. Beyond that, there are breeds that I will never let my guard down for, because I do not trust them based on either personal or collective experience. I love horses, but am not foolish enough to turn my back on one, again the difference between love and trust. To suggest, as some have, that I am somehow wrong to maintain a higher degree of situational awareness in the presence of identifiable members of a group towards which I harbor neither love or hate, and which includes members who have displayed violent behavior towards members of groups I belong to and other groups I do feel an affinity toward, is absurd. It's like saying I should pay no more attention to a group of teenagers walking toward me than to a group of senior citizens. Or pay no more attention to the anti-abortion protesters who frequently demonstrate in front of the building where I work than toward the mailman.

[spydermdz]

go ahead brand me a liberal. only a moron can actually stand byt he bush admin after all that has gone down on his watch. he has let this nation go to hell. this is my opinion and that is that. however, according to you, if bush and cheney wanted bin laden so much, why are we not looking for him and focusing more of our efforts there? huh? why. i have yet to get an answer there. it seems that the focus of the war on terror is in iraq and NOT after bin laden.

[WORKER#9]

go ahead brand me a liberal. only a moron can actually stand byt he bush admin after all that has gone down on his watch. he has let this nation go to hell. this is my opinion and that is that. however, according to you, if bush and cheney wanted bin laden so much, why are we not looking for him and focusing more of our efforts there? huh? why. i have yet to get an answer there. it seems that the focus of the war on terror is in iraq and NOT after bin laden.

Maybe I am a Moron, If Osama is so easy to catch why don't you go get him? :rolleyes:

[Vincent]

I guess I am also.

[Jimd]

Re. Bin Laden....we have some of our very best special ops personnel (I'd personally say the best on the planet) hunting Bin Laden. These folks aren't out there lounging around; they're bad-to-the-bone dudes who are good at what they do.

Consider that Bin Laden has a support network, and hundreds of thousands of square miles in which to hide out, and it's no stretch of the imagination to see how he's not been found. I believe he will be eventually, if our people are permitted to continue.

As for Zarqawi being "insignificant", I strongly disagree. He was in a leadership position, and as such, he was a planner and a rallying presence for the tangos. He helped them focus, and likely kept their morale up and offered reassurance, be it verbal or his mere presence.

In his being killed, many of his followers have one less leader, and less reassurance. They've lost that planner and thinker.

What's the best way to kill a serpent? Lop off it's head!

This 'serpent', ie., Al Qaeda, has many heads, yes. But we just lopped off one. We'll lop more off in the future. Eventually, the cumulative effect will hurt, and hopefully, cripple the serpent to the point that it's non-functional.

Just as a building is not built all at once, but one brick at a time, that's how we need to take down this terrorist 'building'; one 'brick' at a time. Every now and then we get lucky and knock down a load of those bricks. But it's mostly one at a time.

I believe our troops over there are keeping the enemy off-balance enough that they find it difficult, or nearly impossible, to launch further attacks 'over here'.

[smcfalls13]

What's the best way to kill a serpent? Lop off it's head!

This 'serpent', ie., Al Qaeda, has many heads, yes. But we just lopped off one. We'll lop more off in the future. Eventually, the cumulative effect will hurt, and hopefully, cripple the serpent to the point that it's non-functional.


That's a really good analogy, but I'll take it one step further. It's a serpent for sure, but it's more like a Hydra than anything else. Take out of it's heads, and three replace it. Taking out Zarqawi will just make him a martyr and others will step in to take his place. Taking out Bin Laden will be the same.

It's not realistic to expect, but the best course of action is to remove all the "heads" at the same time. At that point all the terrorist cells will be disjointed, with no central organization, so they'll begin to work indepedently.

It's tough to kill cockroaches when you don't know where the nest is. They just keep coming back. But once you burn the nest, you can squash the remaining cockroaches at your leisure.

[The Deacon]

The problem Scott, is that with groups like Al-Quaida, there is no single, definable "nest". That is both their single greatest strength, and their single biggest weakess. On the one hand, as you pointed out, killing one cell leader does not kill the organization, and killing all the leaders in one fell swoop is not possible. On the other, unlike the hydra, removing the leader of one cell can cripple that cell for a period of time and, if enough heads are killed, the beast eventually weakens.

It takes a combination of skills to lead, whether it be a business, a sports team, a regular army, or a band of terrorists. Not every soldier is cut out to be a general, or even an effective second lieutenant. So killing leaders, no matter what the organizational model of the group, is always effective to some degree. Especially in "hate propelled" organizations composed of religious fanatics, it is usually far easier to find persons of low intelligence willing to die for your cause, than persons of high intelligence capable of directing them to die with maximal effect.

One thing for certain, as with cockroaches, simply ignoring them, or trying to peacefully co-exist with them will be even less effective than stomping one whenever it is spotted.

[flipe8]

That was part of my point of making a big deal about taking out any of the leaders to a point. If we just keep on these enemies without the hooplah and high-fives, it has to be affecting them. If all the leaders can do is move from cave to cave, safehouse to safehouse , day after day, confusion is bound to set in for these groups. And when we do get one, communication is breaking down among them as even when they do find out a leader is gone, they might be unsure of both the validity of it and what to do next. In some ways it's like hockey where you have one team that is really good at forechecking and keeping their opponent from setting up for a play(no intention of compairing war to a game). Use the fact that these cells are loosely banded against them by keeping them even more separate from each other.

[spydermdz]

worker 9, dont be foolish. i never stated that osama was EASY to catch. that is just exageration on your end... i DID state that osama and other al queda associates would be easier to catch if the sole effort was dedicated to finding him and NOT fighting in iraq. do you know how we found abu musab al zarqawi? do you know? well if you dont, here it is... a jordanian informant told our military and recon patrols were done to make sure he was there. then his safe house was levelled as we all know.. so basically what does that tell you? working in diplomatic ways with other countries and can help find someone that we want better than going in and fighting in Iraq. people think the war is going to be won or is already won because we killed zarqawi... thats foolish. its far from over. terrorism is hydra. you cut the head off, it continues to grow back harder and harder and harder. also, anothe reason why jordan increased its "positive" relationship with the USA was because zarqawi was a moron. he orchestrated an attack on his own people at that hotel and the jordanian govt. was livid about it. livid to the point where when his family requested his body to be sent to jordan for burial, the jordanian govt. said this verbatim, "the blood of zarqawi would stain jordanian soil." so, in many ways terrorism in and of itself can sometimes cause the demise of a terrorist regime... (zarqawi attacking his nation in jordan) because the ideology is so far fetched that it starts encompassing death and the justification of it on so many levels that people of the same faith sometimes differ with as we saw in the jordan hotel bombing.

[WORKER#9]

worker 9, dont be foolish. i never stated that osama was EASY to catch. that is just exageration on your end... i DID state that osama and other al queda associates would be easier to catch if the sole effort was dedicated to finding him and NOT fighting in iraq. do you know how we found abu musab al zarqawi? do you know? well if you dont, here it is... a jordanian informant told our military and recon patrols were done to make sure he was there. then his safe house was levelled as we all know.. so basically what does that tell you? working in diplomatic ways with other countries and can help find someone that we want better than going in and fighting in Iraq. people think the war is going to be won or is already won because we killed zarqawi... thats foolish. its far from over. terrorism is hydra. you cut the head off, it continues to grow back harder and harder and harder. also, anothe reason why jordan increased its "positive" relationship with the USA was because zarqawi was a moron. he orchestrated an attack on his own people at that hotel and the jordanian govt. was livid about it. livid to the point where when his family requested his body to be sent to jordan for burial, the jordanian govt. said this verbatim, "the blood of zarqawi would stain jordanian soil." so, in many ways terrorism in and of itself can sometimes cause the demise of a terrorist regime... (zarqawi attacking his nation in jordan) because the ideology is so far fetched that it starts encompassing death and the justification of it on so many levels that people of the same faith sometimes differ with as we saw in the jordan hotel bombing.

Sounds like you don't know how we found him either.... nice story though! :D

[peacefuljeffrey]

When do military air strikes become political assassination?


LMAO!! Are you worried that this was a state-sanctioned political assassination? The guy was not the leader of a country, not a politician or representative of any legitimate political group or entity. He was leader of a terrorist organization. He was a legitimate target for military forces to seek and kill.

Ohhh, I'm so sorry he might have suffered before he died.

I wonder if his personal hell is having his neck sawed through by his innocent victims for all eternity. :p

Let's hope so.

-Jeffrey

[spydermdz]

worker9, how did we find zarqawi then? please inform us all.

[smcfalls13]

Sounds like you don't know how we found him either.... nice story though! :D


worker9, how did we find zarqawi then? please inform us all.

Calm down gentlemen, there's nothing wrong with speculation. Short of the soldiers who took part in the operation, none of us are ever going to know what actually happened. No need to fight about it.

[spydermdz]

good point SMC. but i was pretty sure that according to fox news, the station i watch, that a jordanian informant told our military as to his whereabouts and we followed the lead and it turned out to be to his demise and our advantage. oh well. he is dead, i dont guess how it ocurred really means anything now, its in retrospect.

[BlackNinja]

Fox news, is about the worst place on Earth to get reliable news from!

[Vincent]

Everybody is entitled to there own opinion guys, so lets not fight. Thats what makes America so great and is what makes us the most powerfull contry in the world.

[smcfalls13]

Fox news, is about the worst place on Earth to get reliable news from!

Is there any reliable news? Seriously, even the newspapers are all biased(at least around here)

It all get's spun in the end. Whatever happened to reporting the facts?

[BlackNinja]

Is there any reliable news? Seriously, even the newspapers are all biased(at least around here)

It all get's spun in the end. Whatever happened to reporting the facts?
Oh, I agree!
I just think that Fox news is one of the worst.

[Jimd]

That's a really good analogy, but I'll take it one step further. It's a serpent for sure, but it's more like a Hydra than anything else. Take out of it's heads, and three replace it. Taking out Zarqawi will just make him a martyr and others will step in to take his place. Taking out Bin Laden will be the same.

It's not realistic to expect, but the best course of action is to remove all the "heads" at the same time.

Scott,
Since it's not realistic to expect to take out all the heads at the same time (we're in agreement on that), we have to take what we can get, when we can get it. Often, that means one at a time.

If we worry about making command figures martyrs, then we wouldn't be able to kill any of them, which would be worse than martyrdom. Look at it this way: they're zealots as it is. Making one of their idols a martyr really isn't going to accomplish all that much anyway. A zealot is a zealot, no matter which way you slice it. Throw in a few martyrs, and you still have....zealots.

[StuntDouble]

Fox news, CNN, NBC, etc. aren't interested in reporting the facts, as much as they're interested in getting ratings. I've always said, if you have to keep telling people that you're "fair and balanced", then you're only trying to reassure yourself..

[WORKER#9]

Calm down gentlemen, there's nothing wrong with speculation. Short of the soldiers who took part in the operation, none of us are ever going to know what actually happened. No need to fight about it.

Thanks bro! I am calm. :cool:

[WORKER#9]

worker9, how did we find zarqawi then? please inform us all.

No hard feelings, I was just Giving you a little ribbing, after the Moron comments! Hey I watch Fox news, CNN, and MSNBC and my local NBC affiliate!

I must say I support the war and the soldiers who are fighting it. The reality is it is not going away soon so we can stand behind are soldiers or we can whine and snivel and behave like a divided country and let the terrorists win. I am Happy the the Subhuman is dead. I truly hope a Jordanian ratted him out, but I feel it is just disinformation to create distrust among his followers.

[spydermdz]

no hard feelings man. i just heard that on fox news and i watch it regularly.. i enjoy their programs.. dont agree with everything they say but i enjoy the programs by in large.

[spyderknut]

May he burn in hell.

[spydermdz]

May he burn in hell.



hope thats not to me or any of the others and to the asshole zarqawi :( :mad: :spyder:

[peacefuljeffrey]

Fox news, is about the worst place on Earth to get reliable news from!


Yep, they're horrible.


And tied with every other news source there is.

You think CNN, CBS (See-B.S.), NBC and others are not corporate whores, or politically agenda-driven?



-Jeffrey

[zenheretic]

Disregarding the debate of whether we should have started the war in Iraq (or finished it depending on how long your memory happens to be), one thing we must not do is leave now with the job undone. Prematurely pulling out would leave a giant vacuum to be filled by the strongest...and the strongest happens to be extremely anti-American. A similar vacuum was filled in Afghanistan after the Soviets pulled out. The US supported Afghans expected help but we just left them unsupported...and look what came out of that but the birth of Al-Qaeda. Another reason to not stop is that every American soldiers death would be for naught if we just up and quit..and I find that extremely offensive food for thought.

[Ray.Hood]

YES!!!!!! It's about time too!!!!!!!!!