what about a spydie friction folder ???

[arzh]

HI

is there in the past a poject about a friction folder with this kind of system?

fred Perrin

http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2006-4/1168766/Piemont6.JPG

this one pierre henry monnet
http://img222.imageshack.us/img222/4555/phmpiemontaismipliefondbois2xm.jpg

http://img155.imageshack.us/img155/9128/phmpiemontaisreplifondbois9vk.jpg

this one by filip De Leeuw

http://media.weapons.be/deviant11/tutorial/friction34.jpg

http://media.weapons.be/deviant11/tutorial/friction35.jpg

i imagine for the design
the manix
or the Uk pen knife

tell what are you thinking about it
cheers
arzh

[BlackNinja]

That would negate the :spyder: hole, no! :confused:

The UKPK is a friction folder.

[dedguy]

i was under the impression that the UKPK was a friction folder. there's also the rare earth magnet folder coming soon.

[smcfalls13]

Anyone want to explain a friction folder to me?

I'm of the mindset that if it doesn't have a lock, it's a slipjoint. Could someone enlighten me as to the difference between a slipjoint and a friction folder? :confused:

[arzh]

That would negate the :spyder: hole, no! :confused:

The UKPK is a friction folder.


yes you are right need no hole
this system is calling in french "pièmontais" it's one kind of friction folder
the uk pen knife is callin in french "cran forcé"

if senate ou twann can explain the difference in english
it will be cool
thanks arzh

[inzane]

i feel stupid but what exactly is a friction folder?

[The Deacon]

I beleive that a slip-joint always relys on a spring, pressing against the edge of the tang to hold the knife both open and closed. Whereas a friction folder relies, in effect, on a very tight pivot to "squeeze" the sides of the frame against the sides of the blade tang to keep the knife closed. That pressure is often augmented by some other means of keeping the knife open, so it will not close unexpectedly. The split ring on an Opinel, or in the case of the knives above, the "finger" coming off the back of the tang.

[smcfalls13]

Doesn't seem like a very good idea. I would think a friction folder would loosen up MUCH faster than a slipjoint.

I must be missing the appeal... :confused:

[Senate]

I'm not sure but I think Deacon's pretty much covered it, tight pivot pin and the long piece of steel prolonging the tang of the blade which is supposed to go in the spine the knife and will be blocked by the hand. this kind of "lock" is made for a cutting only in a normal grip position.

[Nemo3000]

Hi,

during Eurosatory, three weeks ago, I have given a friction folder to Olive for her to give it to Sal !
It's a Xavier Conil piemontais knife called "Couteau Des Sorgues", designed 10 years ago. The blade looks like the Chinese folder and cuts like a devil.
I love that knife so much, I took my chances and proposed it to Spyderco R&D to have a closer look at a modern Piemontais Design (handmade in the Vaucluse) :cool: .
Perharps it will turn into another collaboration. I don't know.
But for your information I made my homework for that ! Friction folders rules ! :D

cheers

Nemo

[thombrogan]

Scott,

The friction of one's hand keeps a friction folder open. Think of the Spyderfly as sort of a friction folder. A slipjoint requires one to slip the blade out of joint from the backspring to open or close the blade.

Nemo3000 and Arzh,

I wish you great success in convincing Spyderco to make a friction folder.

[smcfalls13]

Scott,

The friction of one's hand keeps a friction folder open. Think of the Spyderfly as sort of a friction folder.

So basically the knife utilizes your hand as a locking system? I thought it was just the friction of the pivot that held the knife, but if most of them have that appendage on the blade for the hand to block, than it sounds like a pretty good idea.

Thanks for the explanation. :cool:

[arzh]

Hi,

during Eurosatory, three weeks ago, I have given a friction folder to Olive for her to give it to Sal !
It's a Xavier Conil piemontais knife called "Couteau Des Sorgues", designed 10 years ago. The blade looks like the Chinese folder and cuts like a devil.
I love that knife so much, I took my chances and proposed it to Spyderco R&D to have a closer look at a modern Piemontais Design (handmade in the Vaucluse) :cool: .
Perharps it will turn into another collaboration. I don't know.
But for your information I made my homework for that ! Friction folders rules ! :D

cheers

Nemo


hey Nemo
very great choice

this is the "lame des sorgues" here in pics



http://img170.imageshack.us/img170/3240/couteaudessorgues12ao.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

http://img317.imageshack.us/img317/3526/couteaudessorgues23qg.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

http://img317.imageshack.us/img317/4016/couteaudessorgues39pb.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

here my personnal
a pimped version by xavier Conil
http://img154.imageshack.us/img154/2177/cdscustom17sl.jpg

[The Deacon]

My first question would be, how are these normally carried? I would think the projection (by the way, what is that called?) that serves as both an opening device and lock would make normal pocket carry impractical. It would also rule out tip down clipped carry, and tip up would seem extremely risky. A sheath / holster of some kind would appear to be the only practical carry method.

Unlike Opinels and Laguioles, which have a certain fluid grace to them, but aside from the wood handled one which has a certain primitive charm, I don't find anything the least bit appealing about these.

[dialex]

Thanks, but no thanks. Not my cup of tea, sorry.

[b-elliott]

I like this idea. I'd buy one if I liked they shape of the knife otherwise. I believe Joe Pardue makes something like this called the toggle folder.

Joe Pardue Toggle Folders (http://www.pentagondefense.com/knives-pardue.html)

[Michael Cook]

:spyder: So a typical straight razor would be considered a friction folder. I must be missing the appeal. :confused: :spyder:

[arzh]

it will be a very cool concept and here in europe it's a legal system in the most of countries
it was an old italian system so it will be cool in the ethnics series
one more :spyder: dream

thanks

arzh

[Richard IV]

The main purpose of this is to be legal in most european countries. That would be nice. We all carry illegal stuff here (even the Ladybug...), and we are subject to lose our Spydies if searched by a suspicious cop...

BTW, don't forget the corkscrew, this time!

R.IV

[arzh]

R.IV you will bring your corkscrew for the sicac
i will bring a good bordeaux or croze hermitage

[Richard IV]

I'll be there and I vote for a Côte-Rotie ^^

R.IV

[arzh]

you have very good taste
hope to see youin sicac :)

[antoine]

Very good idea Arzh! I'm with you. This is the French :spyder: we need. With a good :spyder: design from Sal or Eric (...maybe with a Fred Perrin inspiration). Compact and usefull will be great.

Antoine.

[Chucula]

I dont trust friction locks. Its not really locking; its a position that is held by the user's hand. It seems that the "lock" was designed to get around some law and in the process sacrificed some features (security, asthetics, size, etc)

I'll stick with the manix.

[jerseybounce_42]

Who would want to have a tang protruding from a closed folder (unless you're working in a barber shop) ?

[cobrajoe]

They dont' seem to be that much different than a straight razor or a balisong with a sticky pivot on the bite handle and no pivot on the back handle.

I do like some of the designs, especially the smallest Perrin on the first page, but I think they would be a little bulky and impractical for those of us who can use locks.

On a different note, they do remind me of the case russlock, one knife that I do want to get eventually.

[dialex]

Very good idea Arzh! I'm with you. This is the French :spyder: we need. With a good :spyder: design from Sal or Eric (...maybe with a Fred Perrin inspiration). Compact and usefull will be great.

Antoine.
Salut Antoine.
You already have the Laguiole - IMHO much better than any friction folder :rolleyes:

[antoine]

Hi Dialex,

Yes, you're right, but may be I'm jalous :o : There is a UK and DK penknife... and no French :spyder: ...

[dialex]

If I think well, there is the Spyderco (Ramco) Laguiole - and it's a beauty, believe me. Pretty scarce to find nowadays, but it worth every penny.

[Saint-Just]

If I think well, there is the Spyderco (Ramco) Laguiole - and it's a beauty, believe me. Pretty scarce to find nowadays, but it worth every penny.


Maybe I am wrong but i thought that unlike all other Laguiole the Ramco actually locked. Which would make it an illegal EDC.
Besides, the length of the blade comes into play and if the LEO doesn't like you (or likes the knife) he will seize it.
That is of course a little unfair. In almost half a century I have never been searched in the street, so attitude plays a big part. But the scenario is possible

[dedguy]

I really like these knives, perhaps it's because I've had a fascination with strait razors since first reading A Clockwork Orange. Perhaps it's because I'm half French. In any event I really dig these. I'd like to get one but have no idea how to search for one.

[arzh]

I really like these knives, perhaps it's because I've had a fascination with strait razors since first reading A Clockwork Orange. Perhaps it's because I'm half French. In any event I really dig these. I'd like to get one but have no idea how to search for one.


what kind of knife are you looking for
if i can help you
tell me

[dedguy]

The friction variety with the long handle such as those on a strait razor. Some of Tony Lopes work from the thread you posted in Off Topic caught my eye. I really like the folder in the top middle of this picture: http://img118.imageshack.us/img118/2656/p9160013ya9.jpg

[arzh]

this one ? i PM to you the email of tony lopes
if you are interested
ask him
cheers jerome

http://www.davidmanise.com/img/Bladedogtony7/PICT0001.jpg

http://www.davidmanise.com/img/Bladedogtony7/PICT0011.jpg

http://www.davidmanise.com/img/Bladedogtony7/PICT0019.jpg

[moonlight]

I'm the proud own of the small one :

http://img147.imageshack.us/img147/8500/dsc01631wo8.jpg

http://img87.imageshack.us/img87/8742/dsc01630tw4.jpg

http://img228.imageshack.us/img228/5941/dsc01633xz7.jpg

[sal]

Actually, I have been using Nemo's friction folder daily since the display returned from France.

Thanx much Nemo, and also thanx for your being the guardian angel for my crew. It is much appreciated.

I've also used the Japanese "Higonokami" friction folder, but current production in Japan is more "traditional" than "functional". Nemo's model is very functional.

So let's say we entertain the thought (Nemo's fault :p ) of a friction folder, would we want to collaborate with an existing design or design something "in-house" which would be similar in spirit, but spyderized?

sal

[dedguy]

My favorites are equally spread among both in-house designs and collaboration designs so for my personal tastes I'm on the fence on that front. I would like to see something a little more traditional in terms of materials and look, something less modern in appearance. This isn't because it dislike modern slick designs, because I like them very much. More so just for the sake of variety in the Spyderco line. Something along the lines of Jess Horn I or the Kiwi in terms of look.

[antoine]

"something "in-house" which would be similar in spirit, but spyderized",
mmmh! Maybe the good way! :cool:

Antoine.

[The Mastiff]

I'd have to say an in house design if for no other reason than protection from litigation. I have a few of different varieties ( none as good as the custom ones pictured in the thread).

I'd predict a new record of people being bitten by spyderco designs unless the bar is bigger and longer than the ones I have which are about like straight razors. We all know how sharp Spydercos are.

I like the traditional Italian fishing ones. Simply made, very low tech. Something my great grandfather would have carried Fishing the adriatic.

He would have rather had a modern spyderco though I bet.:) Joe

[224477]

Sal,

an "in-house-design" would be GREAT!
Sub 3inch. blade a good SD + EDC capabilities, so are friends in UK and France can carry it for SD as well.
G10 + S30V would be fine :D

[Th232]

In house, spyderised, but with the same spirit as the old ones. Or, if a collaboration, something like the one here (http://www.rayrogers.com/rayzorii.htm)?

Edit: Of course, the lock might not be possible, but the same style. Why is it that we have Spydies for almost everything except proper shaving (not "shaving the hair off your arms test" shaving)?

[Th232]

Very quick and dirty 2D design, but if a straight-razor type, something like this?

http://img138.imageshack.us/img138/3496/razorkm4.png

Needs a lot of improvement, but hopefully the basic concept is there.

[spydutch]

Well I guess that such a knife will eliminate all the complaints about failing locks in a spine whack test:D

I think I'll pass on this one because I just like my locking Spydies too much.;)

I'm sorry:o

[Th232]

Well I guess that such a knife will eliminate all the complaints about failing locks in a spine whack test:D

I think I'll pass on this one because I just like my locking Spydies too much.;)

I'm sorry:o

Well, if you're holding it right, your palm should hold the tang (and by extension, the rest of the blade) in place. Although you are right, how can you complain about any type of lock if you've done a spine whack test on this? Or complain about the lock on this one?

A little refinement:
http://img171.imageshack.us/img171/8945/razorkw5.png

[dedguy]

I prefer the long narrow lock-bars on this sort of knife. I also wouldn't mind seeing a 50/50 choil so that in addition to you palm compressing the blade in place you'd also, at least partially, be holding the actual blade.

[cdf]

I like F/F's a lot . The William Henry Legcy serries is the best I've seen , it uses a ball bearing detent to keep the handle closed . It's secure as long as you dont change grip under pressure . The concept goes back to Roman times , and uas popular prior to the industrial revolution .

Chris

[arzh]

http://yelims2.free.fr/Forum/Forum18.gif

here my new friction folder the Urbanica by the belgium knifemaker Eric Parmmentier

http://img329.imageshack.us/img329/9019/1000731oh9.jpg


http://images0.hiboox.com/images/2807/ftchnvy5.jpg


http://img244.imageshack.us/img244/9553/1000730bg0.jpg



any news about a spydi friction folder ?:)


hey Sal do still you use your "couteau des sorgues" ?

http://img522.imageshack.us/img522/1226/genvriercustomzu0.jpg

[arzh]

here a version with a clip



http://i40.photobucket.com/albums/e245/fisac/knife%20collection/th_37_urbanica_open_medium.jpg (http://i40.photobucket.com/albums/e245/fisac/knife%20collection/37_urbanica_open_medium.jpg) http://i40.photobucket.com/albums/e245/fisac/knife%20collection/th_37_urbanica_semiopen_medium.jpg (http://i40.photobucket.com/albums/e245/fisac/knife%20collection/37_urbanica_semiopen_medium.jpg) http://i40.photobucket.com/albums/e245/fisac/knife%20collection/th_37_urbanica_closed_medium.jpg (http://i40.photobucket.com/albums/e245/fisac/knife%20collection/37_urbanica_closed_medium.jpg)

[PSU]

Nice pics arzh! How do you usually open a friction folder? One- or two-handed? Do you use the exposed portion of the tang as some sort of lever for opening?

I would probably avoid using a friction folder because I typically carry knives in my waistband. That exposed tang would dig into my side and I would constantly be nervous about inadvertent openings :o

[arzh]

Hi psu

for opening the knife witj one hand i made a little video

http://www.dailymotion.com/skarabito/video/x2lczu_friction-folder-opening_creation


for the inadvertent openings i wear the knife in my jeans pocket or with a seath and i never had a problem, and with a clip i think it's the perfect way to wear a friction folder

cheers
jerome

[griff76]

Not really my cup of tea. I'll stick to the Spyderhole.

[proguide]

I have a nice one from William Henry. ZDP and carbon fiber. It's carried in a stingray leather pouch. Classy and different. It's nice to change it up a bit sometimes.

[arzh]

here a litlle "couteau des sorgues " with a good sausage
http://www.horizon2010.org/images/smilies/542.gif

http://img247.imageshack.us/img247/9746/30072007204ms9.jpg

[arzh]

http://yelims2.free.fr/Forum/Forum18.gifhttp://yelims2.free.fr/Forum/Forum18.gifhttp://yelims2.free.fr/Forum/Forum18.gifhttp://yelims2.free.fr/Forum/Forum18.gif


here a custom friction folder by sacha Thiel
soooooo cool friction it could be very cool in :spyder: version:D

http://img167.imageshack.us/img167/9984/p9090041ii9.jpg

[Michael Cook]

:spyder: No lock, right? I don't see the point except jurisdictional limitations.:spyder:

[arzh]

yes no lock so it's legal in a lot of country :cool:

[224477]

Had a chance to check out the Urbanica which T-Wann had with him during my visit in France and I can tell that it is safe enough to be used as SD tool.
Based on the bladeshape, almost no stabbing is possible, but think more of slashing - like using a secure made razor.. The choil position prevents accidental closure too.

[dedguy]

That Urbanica is sexy. I have two friction folders from Tony Lopes and I have to say due to the bar on the handle it's very hard to close one accidentially if you have any sort of grip on the handle. This isn't like the blade on a SAK (which is very easy to accidentilly close). I just like to have them for variety's sake, and I dig the look of the "locking" bar.

[jaislandboy]

cool friction folders Arzh.... :cool:
thanx for the great pix.... gives me flashbacks of "Reservoir Dogs" and Mr.Blonde... :)
I recall a thread in another forum talking about :spyder: - straight razors ...
the Friction Folder might satisfy both aficionados?
I've never held one before, but i'd definitely get one if a :spyder: - version came out....

[SimpleIsGood229]

This has to do with the draconian Euro knife laws, doesn't it? I think it would be nice for our fellow Spyder Knuts from Europe, but I personally wouldn't buy it. Not my bag of chips.

[arzh]

hey look at the anso friction folder
really cool knife :):D

http://ansoknives.blogspot.com/

[GarageBoy]

I'd rather see a slip joint (BTW: love that shape arzh)
If it becomes a friction folder, how about a simple sliding lock that engages onto a pair of pins (like thumb stubs)?

[Shike]

HI

is there in the past a poject about a friction folder with this kind of system?

this one pierre henry monnet
http://img222.imageshack.us/img222/4555/phmpiemontaismipliefondbois2xm.jpg

http://img155.imageshack.us/img155/9128/phmpiemontaisreplifondbois9vk.jpg


i imagine for the design
the manix
or the Uk pen knife

tell what are you thinking about it
cheers
arzh

That is one sweet looking knife!

[antoine]

Still waiting a good Spyderco friction folder :rolleyes: :D

Antoine.

[Marion David Poff]

http://yelims2.free.fr/Forum/Forum18.gifhttp://yelims2.free.fr/Forum/Forum18.gifhttp://yelims2.free.fr/Forum/Forum18.gifhttp://yelims2.free.fr/Forum/Forum18.gif


here a custom friction folder by sacha Thiel
soooooo cool friction it could be very cool in :spyder: version:D

http://img167.imageshack.us/img167/9984/p9090041ii9.jpg

WOW.

That is beautiful.

arzh - what is the price on something like that?

Though, as I look at that, I immediately wonder what it would look like with a dropped edge, and I think that would fit well with the roots of the pattern, as a knife you might use to enjoy a meal in the Provencal.

As I think about it, I would say collaboration would be the way to go, variety and differentiation are pillars in the success of Spyderco.

And, this ball detent really excites me..... And what if you could manufacture it with the retention method slash lock, which could then be removed by our friends over the pond? Best of both worlds?

I have to say, I am very much enjoying different locks, so this is an exciting idea.

[Marion David Poff]

I know nothing of the ball detent idea, and that may be a great idea, I don't know....

But, I was just trying to imagine a lock that would work with shape of the finger of the friction folder.

And this is what occurs to me, a centrally located Compression Lock (as in, in line with the pivot, much like the current Compression locks, though maybe shifted a bit....), with a release tab not on the spine side, but the other side (terms fail me).

The two versions could share most of the engineering, with the Compression Lock version requiring just a bit more.

Sprint one, then the other....

Just brainstorming....

Middle of the Night, when my mind is at full tilt.....

[arzh]

from my friend ben cardoso


That folder is born from scrap piece.
The blade was a frame lock failed blade... I reworked it a little.
The handle was a piece of burgundy canvas micarta shaped by jjs
The tang pin is a small O2 piece hardened and tempered.

XC75, sharp 6,2 cm, thickness 3,4 mm, O2 blade.
16 cm long, 0,9 cm thick
Burgundy canvas micarta for the scale,
Poids 45g.
http://dremeltingpotes.free.fr/Photos/Pliants/Scrappiecfriction/scf01.jpg

http://dremeltingpotes.free.fr/Photos/Pliants/Scrappiecfriction/scf02.jpg

http://dremeltingpotes.free.fr/Photos/Pliants/Scrappiecfriction/scf03.jpg

http://dremeltingpotes.free.fr/Photos/Pliants/Scrappiecfriction/scf04.jpg

http://dremeltingpotes.free.fr/Photos/Pliants/Scrappiecfriction/scf05.jpg

http://dremeltingpotes.free.fr/Photos/Pliants/Scrappiecfriction/scf06.jpg

[224477]

Thanks Jerome, Ben shows some real talent, love his work :) :cool:

[jezabel]

Here's another, from down my neck of the woods...

[Marion David Poff]

spyderco hole, as forged flats, burgundy scales....

very nice.

[Piet.S]

Here's a custom job from Filip de Leeuw, Deviant11 blades.

http://i113.photobucket.com/albums/n202/Piet-S/ffdeviantafbeelding058.jpg

http://i113.photobucket.com/albums/n202/Piet-S/ffdeviant2afbeelding055.jpg

http://i113.photobucket.com/albums/n202/Piet-S/ffdeviant3afbeelding056.jpg

http://i113.photobucket.com/albums/n202/Piet-S/ffdeviant4afbeelding057.jpg

Blade is RWL-34, handle has one Ti liner and G-10 scales.
And yes, Filip is licenced to use the hole.

[arzh]

Hi sal

my old dream will come true ?:D

[ChaosSpear]

eh, non locking aint my thing. All because I had a small tiny 4 function swiss army when I was a wee little boy out camping. Picked up the knife backwards, and when I tried to use it, it closed right on my finger. Dang that was sharp. Still have a big, whits scar on my finger.

Oh my childhood :). in conclusion, I only carry locking knives. Im much more careful now anyway, I have just grown accustomed to them.

[224477]

I would be happy to see a Ben Cardoso`s "Carderco"... :)

[sal]

We're waiting on a Deviant Friction folder to test the concept to see if it might be effective for production.

sal

[arzh]

good news sal :)
four years after
this





07-06-2006, 09:20 PM

HI

is there in the past a poject about a friction folder with this kind of system?

fred Perrin

http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2006-4/1168766/Piemont6.JPG

this one pierre henry monnet
http://img222.imageshack.us/img222/4555/phmpiemontaismipliefondbois2xm.jpg

http://img155.imageshack.us/img155/9128/phmpiemontaisreplifondbois9vk.jpg

this one by filip De Leeuw

http://media.weapons.be/deviant11/tutorial/friction34.jpg

http://media.weapons.be/deviant11/tutorial/friction35.jpg

i imagine for the design
the manix
or the Uk pen knife

tell what are you thinking about it
cheers
arzh

[jimmytwoguns]

I asked ages ago about a spderco friction folder. Any news?

Also, I asked about a fred perrrin friction foilder as shown in the pics and was told fred wouold get round to it, or something, but so far .....

God bless

JTG'S