Help me out

[Pete1977]

I might have a new job. it might entail moving to a rural area and short notice transfers, as well as up to ten days at sea at a time. I don't plan on bringing a lot of my things, including knives. I'm looking for a serrated knife that can take some hard abuse. it will be my work knife as well as my EDC. I need a compromise of ease of field sharpening, sturdiness, rust resistance, strength, and light weight. The serrations on the pacific salt are too toothy for me. I like the serrations on S30V but the military blade might be too long. any suggestions?

Edited to add: money's pretty tight now that tax time is nearing. I'd like to keep it around 100 bucks. thanks

[Pete1977]

I'm comfortable using a folder, so I'll clarify that, the temperance might be too big and drawing from a kydex sheath when the only point of attatchment is the elastic suspender on a pair of oilskins is difficult to say the least.

this is probably going to be one of three knives I'll bring and it's going to get a LOT of use I predict. (if I get the job ;)) a fixed blade would probably not be feasable to carry off the boats.

I posted here and not on bladeforums because I wanted to weed out the non spyderco suggestions. I like a lot of different companies and from time to time carry other knives, but I take my life seriously and the only knife I'll trust when the poop hits the fan is a spyderco. I could have the best sebenza or toughest strider in my pocket or the biggest busse sheathed on my belt and I'd still feel naked without a spyderco clipped to the bib of my oilskins.

thanks in advance for any helpful suggestions.

pete

[catamount]

I think the regular SE Endura 4 would work really well for you. You could get 2, and have a backup, for $100.

VG-10 and serrations is a popular combination for many here.

[Pete1977]

my biggest problem is the serrations. I find if the points are too long and the serrations are too deep, the knife tends to rip and tear and hangs up more in fibrous material than the shallower, more rounded points of the serrations that seem to be on the S30V knives. I have thought about bringing my SE pacific salt if I could round off the points of the serrations considerably. I have an old abused endura 3 SE that I'm working diligently on bringing back up to a useable sharpness. the original owner seems to have ground the inside of the scallops to a wider angle than the original factory edge, and while I can get the knife sharp for a day or so, it dulls fast, esp. disheartening as it is vg-10. plus there seems to be a lot more play in the blade than i remember.

funny story though, this knife caused me a black eye. We have an approximately fifty lb block hanging by a shackle from a davit at the hauling station on the boat. the line comes over the block (pulley for you land lubbers) and through the hauler and is coiled on the deck. there is a heavy flap of truck tire to keep the slime and seaweed and water from spraying off the line onto the person hauling it. well one day the wind was screaming and the line was tangled with someone else's and the boat swung around so the line was running forward towards the bow of the boat and it was bar tight. I leaned overboard with this particular endura and it was dull dull dull at the time. I just touched it to that tight line and the line parted. I mean one stroke, and it sawed through the line with only half the blade. that's the last thing I remember before waking up on my ass on deck. I never took into account the hanging block, since it was being pulled forward as the boat was blowing backwards, when i cut the line it swung and caught me on the left side of my face. I happened to be lucky enough to be hit by the heavy rubber guard and get a black eye, instead of being hit by the block itself and suffering a caved in skull. :) the cutting ability of even a horribly abused serrated edge is amazing on rope, especially when the rope is under heavy strain. sorry to digress :o

[Axlis]

Howdy Pete, congrats on the new Job oppurtunity:)

Maybe the SE Para will work for you. since you said that the Military blade is too long.

The Para is light weight, has a strong lock, and has the shallower serrations you get from S30v. The rust resistence won't be as good, but I guess that's the swap for a shallow SE.

[cobrajoe]

How about a ZDP delica or endura? The serrations are definately shallower and less pointy than some of the other SE blades. There is also some benefit of harness and edge retention with this steel, I believe ;)

It almost sounds like a fully SE G-10 (or FRN) Cara cara or pelican would be perfect for you. The full SE robin has nice rounded spikes and great rust resistance.

[Pete1977]

cobrajoe I found the byrd's opening holes difficult to operate with thick rubber gloves on. the excess length on the thumb would get cought in the "comet" tail and I'd fumble the knife, not good when you're hanging over the rail.

I might reconsider the military, check out the zdp endura, and the paramilitary. I might be able to get up to kittery when the snow stops, IIRC they have a SE para up there and they might have a SE military. I'd really like to handle the zdp endura, the military or the para to check out the serrations before I buy the knife. I've found a lot of variation in the depth and "pointiness" of the serrations with different knife models, blade styles and shapes, and steel types. I might just bring the SE pacific and save the money :D

Axlis- I haven't got it yet bro ;) but I'm leaning towards taking it if they offer it. I like the opportunity for adventure that would come with it. and all the cutting with :spyder:.

[tonydahose]

if you like the s30v metal how about the native? one downside is that it has a smaller opening hole and i am guessing you will be wearing gloves. if that is true maybe a wave...rescue perhaps since that is the only serrated wave as of yet but it has vg10 steel. i guess it is a toss up.

[Pete1977]

tonydahose- I'll have my PE atlantic salt so I'm looking for a knife with a point and a serrated blade. I'm going to go through what SE knives I have to see if any fit the bill. I don't think I have that many fully serrated spyders.

my one concern with the military and the para is the finger choil. when cutting rope with the atlantic salt, the finger choil proves more of a hinderance than an aid. the rope, especially thinner diameters, hangs up in the choil when you're trying to cut something fast. I've had the knife almost pulled from my hands several times because of this. cold hands and heavy rubber gloves with stretch mitties beneath them make a secure grip difficult, and when everything is wet and slimy it is even more so.

[Dr. Snubnose]

Pete I know You said you didn't want a fixed blade and you wanted to stay loyal to Spyderco so to say...If you will indulge me just for a minute...As far as Spyderco goes I think the Endura would serve you well for your needs...might I suggest something that isn't Spyderco that might just be something you could really use and they are not expensive at all, they can be had for around $27.00... The knife I am thinking about is a fixed blade from Timberline, a Lightfoot design called the Mini-Pit Bull, check it out...the serrations are just what you are looking for...the knife comes in a combo edge, small compact with an interesting sheath that can be clipped right side up or even udside down and keep the knife very secure,(the way I use mine, clipped upside down in the underarm of a vest, or use it as a neck knife, this way there is no chance of it going overboard...(this knife though small is designed to be held on to... Lightfoot is an incredible designer of knives) just something to think about as a back up that won't hurt the wallet in any way...Doc:D

[catamount]

Here's a pic of the ZDP E4 to show you what the serrations look like.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v260/TomBerry/Teeth.jpg

[Pete1977]

thanks guys for all the suggestions. Doc- I checked out the mini pitbull. that might work actually as a small fixed blade. I know that all of the equipment except for boots are issued, including a knife, but I forsee a small red handled victorinox paring knife with a kydex sheath on that regard.

Catamount- the zdp endura looks like it might fit the bill

so might the para, and perhaps the military. I like the open construction, since easy cleaning is going to be important.

I was also thinking a fully serrated ATR might just do the trick! I completely forgot about this knife. it looks to be HEAVY DUTY, a solid, well built tool, the serrations don't look too agressive from the pics I've seen, it is open construction, and seems to have a very secure lock. (I've accidentally disengaged the mid-handle lockbacks from time to time when cutting with the edge up. my middle finger sits right in the boye dent and a white knuckle grip depresses the locking bar just enough to unlock the blade.

[tonydahose]

i dont think the byrd line has a full SE but the serrations are definitely less pointy. maybe a cara with G10 scales combo edge?

[spydutch]

It will be a shame maybe to put this one under real hard use on a boat I suppose, but I guess this will be the serrations best suited for you:D

http://i89.photobucket.com/albums/k235/spydutch/ATRopen-1.jpg

[Pete1977]

that's a tough looking knife

does the d'allara drop point come in fully serrated?

[cobrajoe]

You know pete, that ATR maybe what you're looking for. That cobra hood should definately help when wearing gloves. There are two on ebay right now with a Buy It Now price of $70. I'm sure it will be heavier than any FRN handled knife though.

As for the D'allara, I don't believe that a fully SE DP has been made, but the Rescues usually go for a decent price. The ball lock might be a little tricky with gloves though.

[Pete1977]

I'm picky about the serration pattern. the ATR in Arend's pic are exactly the style of serrations I'm looking for, but IIRC his is titanium/S30V isn't it?

the stainless one I'm looking at is VG-10/SS and the serrations look a little more toothier. It looks like one hell of a knife though.

I'm probably going to end up going with it.

my reasoning behind looking for a specific number of traits in the knife is because this is probably going to be only one of 3 or 4 knives I'll have at my disposal, regardless of whether I get this job or not, as I'll be moving and packing very lightly.

but, since the ATR is a knife I've never given much thought to in the past, I think I am going to settle on that, and see what it can do for me. thanks for all the input guys and when it gets here I'll let you all know what my thoughts are on it.

thanks
pete

[flipe8]

Why not just file down the tips on the Salt? I did it with an older Rescue some years ago and it worked fine for me. I sawed a piece of sharpening stone until it took the fine tips off, while the scallops were untouched. Just a thought.

[Pete1977]

Well, I managed to pick up a CE military S30V in trade, and bought a SS ATR on ebay yesterday. I know what to expect with the military, as I've had 3 440V versions, however, I'm completely in the dark with the ATR. I have a rough idea of it's size and I understand that it is a tough knife. I'll play aroun with it when it gets here and see if it will meet the multiple functions I need it to. otherwise, I'm quite sure the military definately will.

thanks for your help guys

pete

[Axlis]

... I'm completely in the dark with the ATR. I have a rough idea of it's size and I understand that it is a tough knife.




Here are some pics to help you get an idea of the size to expect, it's a bigger knife than most people think!

<img src=http://im1.shutterfly.com/procserv/47b6db20b3127cce889821555cc400000026108AYt27Jy0Ztw>

<img src=http://im1.shutterfly.com/procserv/47b6db20b3127cce889821cadd6b00000016108AYt27Jy0Ztw>


Here is the width compared to a Para and Native, I think the Para is the same width as a Millie

<img src=http://im1.shutterfly.com/procserv/47b6db20b3127cce88996bf27c0a00000016108AYt27Jy0Ztw>

<img src=http://im1.shutterfly.com/procserv/47b6db20b3127cce889969357ccc00000016108AYt27Jy0Ztw>

[jaislandboy]

yeah the ATR is quite thin in profile for its "big size"...If memory serves correct, its noticably thinner than the Military....congrats on the :spyder: treats Pete....:cool:

[cobrajoe]

That top view almost makes it look like a salsa, I never knew it was that thin!

Wow.

[jaislandboy]

yeah CJ, thin, strong, pretty light for a big knife too....
I don't know which opens smoother ...the ATR or my Impala...:confused:

[Pete1977]

Thanks Axlis, for those pics! they helped.

like I said, the one I got is fully serrated and from what I've read here and at bladeforums, it is a tank of a knife. when I get it, since I didn't see TOO much on it, is take it onto the boat (we aren't working much, the capt. is ill and they can't find a cause:( , so I might be out of work:( , hence the new job opportunity;) . we're bringing in all the traps so there is a LOT of cutting going on, and I get to do it ;)) and put it to work. I also have a bunch of rope and other "cuttables" in my truck that need to be gotten rid of, and a bunch of cardboard around the apartment. I'll give the ATR a good workout and post a little review here.

if it doesn't grow on me, I've always got the CE military to replace it. ;)

and thanks to all of you guys for your input and suggestions. I appreciate it. it's hard looking for just one spyderco to meet the needs I anticipate, especially when travelling light means taking only two or three :(. thanks for bearing with me on this one. :D

[cobrajoe]

Cool, I'm going to look forward to a review on a "hard use" ATR. That just sounds like good reading :D

[Pete1977]

The combo edged military arrived yesterday and today the serrated ATR arrived. Some thoughts:

The Military- CE, S30V, G-10
I like this military a LOT more than the 440V militaries I owned. The serrated portion of the blade is short but extremely effective cutting rope, and the flat ground blade slices thin strips of cardboard like butter with no noticable affect on the edge retention of the knife. It is kind of tight opening the knife right now, but I am sure that the G-10 that contacts the blade will smooth with time and make for a much slicker opening. The handle is grippy. Very grippy. It makes it somewhat difficult to draw from the pocket, but it should wear over time. If it becomes a problem, I might pull the clip off and sand it down a little, see if that helps. I'm impressed with this knife, never a favorite of mine due to it's size, and the use of 440V for the blade. The three I've owned, 2 plain edged and 1 Spyderedge were all in 440V and would up sold or traded off. This one will probably be my primary knife in the new job.

The ATR- SE, VG-10, SS
What can I say? I've never had any interest in this knife. I've never even considered this knife, actually. I thought it was a lot bigger, a lot thicker, and a lot more robust knife. I chose to get it as a heavy duty user over the Manix for a couple reasons. One, the Manix was not offered in full spyderedge. Two, the tip of the ATR (although I've never handled a manix) seems to be a lot thicker, stronger tip. It is a similar blade shape to the impala, and as slick to open. I like the integral compression lock as well. The picture of the ATR in this post showed shallow, round pointed serrations, which is what I was originally looking for when I first posted this. Let me say, that the serrations on the Stainless ATR are SHARP. I've only cut two pieces of rope with this knife and the serrations cut through them like butter. I like the cobra hood and I think that it will make opening the knife one handed with gloves (no mean feat even with the large opening hole) much easier. I also like that it is removeable, and if I want it off, off it comes. The handle of the knife is slender, police-like, and even with the holes, it is somewhat slick. This knife will be easy to clean however due to it's fully open construction. I like the style of clip on the ATR, and find it clips to and draws from the pocket very easily, yet I have a feeling that this knife won't be going anywhere while it is clipped. The shape and size of the handle will accomodate large or gloved hands easily and look and feel like they would provide a comfortable, positive grip, as much so as the military.

One thing, there seems to be a flathead screw threaded into the inside of the compression lock, and it is not flush with the lock bar. What is it's purpose, and should it be flush with the inside of the bar?

I'll update this review after I use the knives a little, but my first impression is a good one. So far I'm impressed with both models.

pete

[jaislandboy]

pete, i had the same question about that screw.....it prevents the lock from being opened (laterally) too much....prevents "hyperextension" of the comp lock ....like a more discrete version of the "Hinderer stabilizer" thing on Strider folders....;)

[bluemist]

Pete,

That screw keeps the compression lock thing from getting pushed too far out. See what I mean? Otherwise it would vulnerable to breakage (I would think). This is no official answer it is just what I thought when I first noticed that screw.

Man I love the ATR, I have the SS SE. Last time I showed it to a regular joe (not nkp but not afi either) he said "That's an evil looking knife". And I agree. Fun to play with too. I like to flip it in the air from regular grip into p'kal with a couple of twists. I got the scars to prove it. I don't really like the PE ATR but I am in love with the Black SE ATR. I paid $120 for mine w/ a slight mark up due to its CC# which is ridiculous if you ask me but what the hell, it is a cool number but detracts from the aesthetics just a bit. My dream ATR would be Ti handle w/ VG-10 and a couple of more teeth. Talking about the Stretch or ATR always gets me a ramblin' on and on so I'll stop now.

[Pete1977]

I haven't used the ATR yet, but I did get some use out of the military yesterday on the boat. I am too lazy to repeat myself but it can be found here:
http://spyderco.com/forums/showthread.php?t=27350

Today I was down at my folks' house helping them move furniture. They gave me a black trash bag with drapes in it and asked if I could bring it to their summer place, near where I live. It was in back of my truck, and I worried that if I didn't do it today, the drapes would be in the dumpster with next week's trash. So I went by the house, was hurrying for no particular reason, and as I was coming from the back hall into the living room the clip on the military caught on the door jamb and bent. It was more than a 1/4 inch above the handle scale. I was quite p****d but it was my own fault:mad: . what are you going to do? :(

anyhow, I've tried changing an old endura SS from tip down to tip up, and ended up stripping the heads of all of the screws. I did manage to complete the mod with a pair of pliers though :o so I was not too thrilled about fixing this clip. I had no problem with the screws on my 806D2 or bending the clip straight on an old presidio I picked up in kittery this fall so when I got home, I went to work. ten minutes and no pliers, and the job was done. the clip, which was a little tight to begin with, now is much more user friendly when before. when life gives you lemons, make lemonade :D .

by the way, with the S30V replacing 440V, the military is growing on me, and is fast on it's way to being the knife I take to virginia. :)

Pete

[JD Spydo]

Pete I have 2 possibilities I would like you to consider. There were 2 Rescue models that were made by Spyderco for only about a year or so. And it blows my mind as to why these models didn't go gangbusters on the sales charts. I am speaking of the C-14 & C-45 stainless handled Rescue models. I even liked this model better than I did my old Mariner that I used to just swear by.

Now I do have a second pick. If you can find an older 440V, SE model MILITARY I think you will be pleasantly surprised at it's performance level. But again those stainless Rescues are so solidly constructed that I think you could literally drop one of them out of an airplane and it would survive. It is a tank of a serrated knife. Keep us posted and let us know what you ultimately select. I would be interested in knowing. JD:spyder: O

[Pete1977]

JD- I've pretty much settled on the S30V CE military. I have never been a fan of 440V because of its difficulty in sharpening. I managed to get one I used to own pretty sharp, but when I made one cut on a piece of rope, that was it. I couldn't get it to cut anything else. I got home and it took forever on the sharpmaker to get that edge back. I promptly sold the knife. the performance and convenience of S30V in my opinion far surpasses 440V for hard use. S30V takes a razor edge, holds it for multiple cuts on heavy duty synthetic lines, and with a quick couple passes on the fine sharpmaker stones, is restored to a razor edge. I could never achieve that with 440V and with the minimal effort I wanted to put into restoring the blade to the level of sharpness I had, it just wasn't a feasable knife to have.

For a stainless serrated tank of a knife, I have the SS ATR SE. I have never looked for a stainless rescue, or a mariner, but I think for my needs, I'll be set with the military, and the ATR (although I haven't used it yet)

pete