P'Kal - Handle Design Limitations?

[Hannibal Lecter]

My Dear Friends,

Does anyone have any thoughts or knowledge about how the P'Kal will feel in the hand in traditional forward grip? Traditional reverse grip? I am not trained in the pikal grip and am currently unwilling to commit to train with it. ;) How will this knife feel when held and used as a traditional knife?

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Hannibal

[224477]

As a good friend told me once, it might be great for "peeling potatoes grip" :D

Seriously, I think it will be less comfy in common edge out grips.

As for the pikal style, I find it interesting, and would like to try it, just need to find some cheaper knife capable of that, or maybe modify something to fit in pikal.

[smcfalls13]

I'll let you know when I get one in hand Doc. I'm a bit wary of it as well, but primarily because a Pikal grip is rather awkward for utility. As soon as they ship, I'll post some in hand pics.

[Hannibal Lecter]

My Dear Scott,


I'll let you know when I get one in hand Doc. I'm a bit wary of it as well, but primarily because a Pikal grip is rather awkward for utility. As soon as they ship, I'll post some in hand pics.

That is a fabulous idea, my friend, but my problem is that I am on the call list to obtain one as soon as they come out, so there is a chance you might not have yours long enough to post a review before I am faced with the order/don't order decision. :D I love the design of the knife itself, but I am getting concerned about the utility for my particular style of knife fighting. I have a hard time justifying the P'Kal if it isn't going to work for me, when I could just pick up another Yojimbo while they are still available and be happy with it. :)

Speaking of which, wouldn't it be great if Spyderco would bring back the Yojimbo and add the removable Wave to it? :cool:

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Hannibal

[224477]

Speaking of which, wouldn't it be great if Spyderco would bring back the Yojimbo and add the removable Wave to it? :cool:


That would be awesome, the idea of a removable wave rod is well thought.:cool:

[The Deacon]

Speaking of which, wouldn't it be great if Spyderco would bring back the Yojimbo and add the removable Wave to it? :cool:

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HannibalHannibal, a possible and probably more feasible solution might be to check with STR and see if he could wave an existing Yojimbo for you. IIRC, he's licensed by Emerson to do that. Would not be removable, but if you have two, one waved, one not, then the net effect is the same.

[Hannibal Lecter]

My Dear Deacon,


Hannibal, a possible and probably more feasible solution might be to check with STR and see if he could wave an existing Yojimbo for you. IIRC, he's licensed by Emerson to do that. Would not be removable, but if you have two, one waved, one not, then the net effect is the same.

I'll drop him a note - that sounds like an excellent idea!

My sincerest thanks to you!

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Hannibal

[Stenny]

I saw a waved Yojimbo recently, looked like a demon. I am afraid it would behave exactly like that :eek: . That's why I would love to get one :D.

[Gerard Breuker]

Having resisted the urge to steal it during the Amsterdam Meet in my thus limited experience not very comfortable in either traditional grip which should come as no surprise ofcourse as it was designed especially for pakal.

[yablanowitz]

The closest I can come is a Kershaw Talon I've had for years. Although I carried it for utility purposes, and used it accordingly, it never was very comfortable to use in edge out grips. The curve of the frame filled the fingers well, but the huge gap between the spine of the handle and the palm of my hand was very annoying. YMMV, but I suspect you will find the same problem with the P'kal.

[smcfalls13]

My Dear Scott,



That is a fabulous idea, my friend, but my problem is that I am on the call list to obtain one as soon as they come out, so there is a chance you might not have yours long enough to post a review before I am faced with the order/don't order decision. :D

If you've got yours on order from the same Pharmacy mine come from, just postpone your decision two days, that's all it takes to get from there to here.

[Dr. Snubnose]

If you use the knife in Pikal grip edge in...it looks like it will be very comfy...This style of Filipino knife fighting technique that the knife was designed around is based on the principle that one is going to be doing a lot of thrusting and stabbing movements, that is till an opponent puts up a block, the interesting thing with the edge facing in is that you can then sear the opponents arm down to the bone very effectively and he will probably retract his block quickly allowing you to resume thrusting and stabbing motions...it ain't pretty...but it is most effective...nothing real fancy about the whole idea....just a basic approach that will work when SHTF...the method is very aggressive...though I like and train with Pikal Grip blade facing out and in... the blade facing in position has it's advantages if you used the method I described...are you going to use the Pikal Knife for utility...I doubt it very much....It really has one purpose...and that is in it's role as a self-defense knife. Would I rather have the design in a fixed blade? You bet I would! That being said I think the folding version will work out just fine...Doc:D

[Puyallupknifegu]

I saw a waved Yojimbo recently, looked like a demon. I am afraid it would behave exactly like that :eek: . That's why I would love to get one :D.


Link to waved Yojimbo!!!


http://cgi.ebay.com/
Spyderco-Yojimbo-Wave-Waved-and-bead-blasted
_W0QQitemZ200098033284QQihZ010QQcategoryZ63800QQss PageName
ZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

If that doesn't work, then just search for yojimbo...you'll find it...;)


T

[Th232]

One question, how would the P'kal work if it was used in a forward grip? I was looking at the point, and it seems to me that it's optimised for a more "circular" thrust, if you compare a stabbing motion in a reverse grip with stabbing in a forward grip, the former pivots around the elbow (hence a more circular motion), while the latter is more linear.

I think it'll work well for slashing in a forward grip, but for thrusting, I'm not too sure.

[Tonie Nichols]

I handled the P'kal model at the OKCA show and it felt just fine in the standard grip to me. In the standard grip the blade shape struck me as being pretty similar to the Superhawk (I think that was the name) also on the table.

I've been practicing the p'kal style on my own for a while now for two reasons. The first is based on knives that I carry, the manner in which I carry my knives and the way I access them. The second is that I'm working on the assumption that in a life and death struggle, the only kind that justifies the use of deadly force, I'm going to be scared s**tless and that all the really neat trapping skills and other such fine movements could easily be lost to the adrenaline dump. The circular stabbing and ripping motions seem to be instinctive and ideal for the close in body to body contact I would expect. And it lends itself to the higher skills as well.

I've been practicing with both fixed blades and folders (a Spyderco Goddard and a Cold Steel 4" Voyager Tanto) and I found that the only way to draw a folder and attain the pikal grip was to draw the folder in standard grip pinch it between my thumb and finger and let it rotate into the point down position. When I handled the P'kal I found that this was the manner in which it worked as well. This is a knife I do want to buy.

Unfortunately, it seems to me, based upon what I've experienced so far, having to abandon one perfectly serviceable grip to assume another, combined with the opening motion, which is absolutely enhanced by the wave rod, is probably not the most effecient way to respond to a combat situation. However, that being said, given a second or two to respond, a person could with practice probably perform the access quite successfully.

[smcfalls13]

Doc, I find it more comfortable in forward grip and reverse grip, than in Pikal.

A review will be forthcoming...from a utility standpoint of course.:cool:

[KaliGman]

Hannibal,

As per my PM to you the other day, I have been playing around with the P'Kal. Knowing me, you have to know that it has seen a lot of Kali practice in the last few days:D.

I am very pleased with the lock, and somewhat pleased by the ergonomics. It is, to me, most comfortable in the edge in reverse grip for which it was designed. Since I am not a big fan of this grip (I use it occasionally, but find many other grips, in general, to be better solutions to most combat related problems), I was glad that the knife is pretty comfortable in the hammer forward, French foil forward, standard reverse, ice-pick reverse (edge out) and other grips. I have always found that you fight the way that you train, and that there are no real "natural" techniques that will arise when you get attacked (at least in my experience). SouthNarc's techniques are not instinctive, but are reasoned, trained responses to real world problems. The knife should work wonderfully in his particular system.

The knife can thrust effectively in hammer grip, especially in the rounded, off-the-normal-attack-line, totsada techniques. A straight thrust is still effective. The blade works well in French foil grip.

All-in-all, I like the knife. I am carrying the knife as I type this. I don't think it will ever be my favorite self-defense oriented folder, but it is a good, solid, knife. The "cool factor" is definitely there, due to the typical Spyderco fit and finish and the unusual shape and handling dynamics of the piece.

I know there are many out there lusting after this knife, due to the fact that it is the "latest and greatest" from Spyderco and is currently so hard to get that it seems to be made of "unobtainium." I like the knife, but, if I had to make a choice between this knife and say a Gunting or a Yojimbo, I would pick either of the later. Please do not take this as a slam to the knife or to SouthNarc's design or fighting techniques, as I have respect for all of the aforementioned.

[Hannibal Lecter]

My Dear Friend,


I like the knife, but, if I had to make a choice between this knife and say a Gunting or a Yojimbo, I would pick either of the latter.

Good to know, my friend. I do not have a Gunting, but am reviewing a Lapu Lapu Corto in the near future in sort of a compare/contrast with the Gunting. The Yojimbo is a favorite SD carry piece, though of late the Waved Endura has replaced it for EDC - extra blade length and all of that. :D

My sincerest thanks for your thoughts and your candor!

Respectfully yours...

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Hannibal