axis? or rumour, help,?

[steeltiger]

this qeustion was prompted from another forum, where I heard that due to the big bm issue, that spyderco traded rights to the hole for rights to the axis lock, I havent found anything by doing a quick search here.
so have I missed anything, or is this just a rumour floating around, I dont see any advantage in the axis over ball bearing, at least not enuogh to warrant a ''trade''


yes, i will boycot bm untill things ghange.

[yablanowitz]

Well, if you missed it, don't feel bad, because I did too. ;)

I have yet to see anything positive for Spyderco come about from that situation. Of course, with the number of project Sal keeps in the pipeline, BM could have given him the rights to their entire product line, and it would be three years before we saw any of it. That is the difference between an innovator and an imitator :D

[smcfalls13]

I doubt it. Spyderco has no need for the Axis lock anyway. They have a myriad of locks they can choose from, and all equal to, if not better, than the Axis.

[Th232]

Highly doubt it, and even if there was, I don't think anyone outside of Spyderco R&D would be talking about it.

Oh, and one more thing... P'Kal BB lock.

[TazKristi]

I doubt it. Spyderco has no need for the Axis lock anyway. They have a myriad of locks they can choose from, and all equal to, if not better, than the Axis.

Correct.

Kristi

[JD Spydo]

I doubt it. Spyderco has no need for the Axis lock anyway. They have a myriad of locks they can choose from, and all equal to, if not better, than the Axis.

I agree with Scott>> I think that Axis Lock is overrated anyway. Now it's not a bad locking system but I would personally even take Spyderco's ball bearing lock over the axis lock. Just my preference.

I even like the Compression lock better than I do the axis lock. Spyderco doesn't need anything from any other company except the materials to make the knife of course.

[Franco G]

Correct.

Kristi

I am not sure it were correct.
It is almost a concensus that, presently, Axis is the best lock in the world.
I think Spydercos are, presently, in general, the best knives in the world.
Potentially, Spyderco locks (compression lock, BB lock, ...) could be even better then Axis. Presently, however, they are still in the development.
There are a nonnegligible number of cases where compression lock has a vertical blade play (mostly problems with ParaMillie), or develops it soon after use. It does not happen with Axis.
The main weakness of Axis lock is a possible break of omega springs. If BM succeeds to solve this, Axis would be almost a perfect lock.
If Spyderco succeeds to stabilize a compression lock so that it does not develop a blade play, it would be even better than Axis.
Sorry Kristi.

Franco

[JBE]

To me the axis lock - for lack of a better word - seems "dainty" when compared to the compression and BB locks. I don't trust those springs (and there have been failures of the springs posted in other forums) and it seems there were complaints of the lock failing to engage if it happened to get a little dirt in it from usage. My biggest complaint with the BB lock was that I had a little difficulty disengaging the lock but not once did I ever have that lock fail to engage. Biggest problem with the compression lock, IMO, was the learning curve that came with using it for those of us who were used to traditional liner locks. I cannot remember anyone posting a failure of the compression lock, but then I may be wrong. I'm not saying the axis lock is a bad lock, but I have only limited trust in it until some improvement is made.

[flipe8]

I don't know if the Axis is considered the best lock in the world. I mean, who says it? BM fans? Hell, BM themselves don't even use it on all their products. If it were the best, why wouldn't they? Why don't we see large numbers of companies paying to use it? I can only think of one(could be wrong, but I really can't think of any others). BM could be making a lot of money allowing others to use it. I think the spring is a huge issue and found the lock far too easy to disnegage unintentionally.

[dedguy]

All locks have their pros and cons. I haven't come across any lock that if done right isn't a great locking system.

[flipe8]

All locks have their pros and cons. I haven't come across any lock that if done right isn't a great locking system.
A lot of truth there.

[gunmike1]

I am not sure it were correct.
It is almost a concensus that, presently, Axis is the best lock in the world.
I think Spydercos are, presently, in general, the best knives in the world.
Potentially, Spyderco locks (compression lock, BB lock, ...) could be even better then Axis. Presently, however, they are still in the development.
There are a nonnegligible number of cases where compression lock has a vertical blade play (mostly problems with ParaMillie), or develops it soon after use. It does not happen with Axis.
The main weakness of Axis lock is a possible break of omega springs. If BM succeeds to solve this, Axis would be almost a perfect lock.
If Spyderco succeeds to stabilize a compression lock so that it does not develop a blade play, it would be even better than Axis.
Sorry Kristi.

Franco

Both Axis locks I tried had a small amount of vertical play (Rukus and Mini Rukus). To say that no Axis locks have vertical play is not true. There may be a lesser rate of complaints of vertical play with tha Axis, but there are definately some out there.

Mike

[Joshua J.]

In my opinion, under ideal conditions the Axis lock is the best lock you can have on a folding knife, it’s easy to use and very secure. The weakness of the Axis lock is in its complexity, there’s a lot of room for dirt to collect in the mechanism, and it’s hard to clean. I don’t think getting it dirty will make it fail; it’s just annoying. Unless you are in a situation where the air is moist and there isn’t any way to properly clean the lock out, in that case there is a chance that the omega springs will rust apart.
That’s where the Compression lock shines. The advantage of the Compression lock is that it’s as easy to clean as a frame lock, but as secure as the Axis lock. The downside is accessibility, a lot of people complain about the Compression lock being awkward to use.
I don’t mind using the Compression lock, the Axis lock is just a little nicer.

[smcfalls13]

I am not sure it were correct.
It is almost a concensus that, presently, Axis is the best lock in the world.

Define best. The Axis lock is not stronger, or more reliable, than the Ball Bearing lock. Both have their issues. The one thing that Axis locks are touted for most often is that they are more "flickable" than any other locks. If that makes them the best, that's fine, but how flickable a knife is isn't even on my checklist when buying a knife.


I think Spydercos are, presently, in general, the best knives in the world. Potentially, Spyderco locks (compression lock, BB lock, ...) could be even better then Axis. Presently, however, they are still in the development.

I think with the introduction of the modified Ball lock on the Pikal, the Axis lock will have some stiff competition.


There are a nonnegligible number of cases where compression lock has a vertical blade play (mostly problems with ParaMillie), or develops it soon after use. It does not happen with Axis.

I've heard those same cases, and you're right, it is predominantly the Paramilitary, but you don't hear those complaints about the ATR, Lil' Temp, Gunting, Yojimbo and other comp locks. It's not a problem with the Comp lock, it's a problem with the manufacturing of the Para.


The main weakness of Axis lock is a possible break of omega springs. If BM succeeds to solve this, Axis would be almost a perfect lock.

I wouldn't say it would be perfect for everyone. Not every one wants their blade free swinging when the lock is disengaged. Given BMs track record of innovation, I don't see them even trying to fix the weakness of the omega springs.


If Spyderco succeeds to stabilize a compression lock so that it does not develop a blade play, it would be even better than Axis.

See above about the ATR, Lil' Temp, etc etc. I've owned 15 Guntings, 4 Lil' Temps, 2 Yojimbos, and I still have an ATR. All are vault like lock up. I think the Axis lock is good, but far too overrated. It has godlike status as a lock, and doesn't deserve it, there are other locks that are better.

[Chucula]

In my experience, people like the axis lock because it has a very smooth opening. In truth, most people don't need a lock that can withstand 200lbs (I wonder who does...), so axis is fine for them. The same with reliability--most users dont need super reliability. Those that do would be served better by a fixed blade anyway.

I know I have never brought any of my knives near their limits in terms of lock strength or reliability because I use them like knives, not axes or spine whacking devices or prybars or other nonsense. I look for good steel, which is why I like Spyderco.

I think its silly for people to buy a folding knife expecting it to be the equivalent of a fixed blade. As with anything that moves, it will have wear and it will become less stable with use.

And I still cant figure out where all these ladybugs are coming from. All over my room! I dont get it :confused:

[smcfalls13]

And I still cant figure out where all these ladybugs are coming from. All over my room! I dont get it :confused:

If you're talking about the insect, not the Spyderco, Springtime is when they swarm. If you're fortunate enough to be in an area populated with them, they'll be EVERYWHERE:D

I'd rather have Ladybugs than Hornets...had a nest of those inside my walls once...that was less than pleasant.

[Franco G]

1. Define best. The Axis lock is not stronger, or more reliable, than the Ball Bearing lock. Both have their issues. The one thing that Axis locks are touted for most often is that they are more "flickable" than any other locks. If that makes them the best, that's fine, but how flickable a knife is isn't even on my checklist when buying a knife.



2. I think with the introduction of the modified Ball lock on the Pikal, the Axis lock will have some stiff competition.



3. I've heard those same cases, and you're right, it is predominantly the Paramilitary, but you don't hear those complaints about the ATR, Lil' Temp, Gunting, Yojimbo and other comp locks. It's not a problem with the Comp lock, it's a problem with the manufacturing of the Para.



4. I wouldn't say it would be perfect for everyone. Not every one wants their blade free swinging when the lock is disengaged. Given BMs track record of innovation, I don't see them even trying to fix the weakness of the omega springs.



5. See above about the ATR, Lil' Temp, etc etc. I've owned 15 Guntings, 4 Lil' Temps, 2 Yojimbos, and I still have an ATR. All are vault like lock up. I think the Axis lock is good, but far too overrated. It has godlike status as a lock, and doesn't deserve it, there are other locks that are better.

smcfalls13,

what you say does not contradict my comments:

Ad 1.
My personal experience with Axis is BM 710 M2, the only one BM folder I own. It is a perfect lock, no blade play. If you notice blade play it is because of the lint - just clean it and everything is OK.
I do not say the BB lock is weaker. It should be, by construction (it is just physics!), similar in strength to Axis. However, as I said, it is still in development - some problems reported show that it still should (and shall) be refined.

Ad 2.

I hope so, too. But, let's wait and see.

Ad 3.

I thought the same about ATR and Lil'T until STR reported that they also develop a certain v-play. I own Lil'T, the best Spyderco ever produced IMO, but never used it. It is very encouraging if you say that 15 Guntings, 4 Lil'T, and 2 Yojimbos stay with no blade play. I hope, my Lil'T would stay too (now, I am somewhat afraid to use it).

Ad 4.
A number of omega spring breaking is today much smaller then in the beginnings.

Ad 5.
I almost agree with what you say. Except that I am not sure that there are better locks PRESENTLY.

To be clear, I am a great admirer of compression lock (I believe, from the physical point of view it should be the best), and I wrote personally about Lil'T as a best survival/SD folder. The question on the Wilderness & Survival Skills Forum ( one folder for survival?) I answered:


Spyderco's Lil' Temperance, S30V, leaf blade.
Why?
Although there are many good folders, BM 710HS, 806D2, ...,
Spyderco Manix, Chinook, ATR, ..., Strider, Sebenza, etc., I prefer the Lil'T because
1. One of the strongest compression locks - liners are nested inside the G-10 handles, MBC rated.
2. A flat 4mm thick blade - a perfect cutter.
3. an excellent S30V steel.
4. open handles - very easy to clean!
5. a lock is very simple - just a liner that gets compressed.
6. the highest fit and finish - works smoothly.
7. handle ergonomics

Now, there are choices i mentioned, certainly good, but I would take it cum grano salis. Axis lock is perfect, but in survival situation, how would you clean the lock, or exchange a broken omega spring? Sebenza has a heavy duty lock, I would prefer a MBC rated one. Chinook and Manix - lockbacks, more difficult to clean. Etc.

Franco

Franco

[dedguy]

And I still cant figure out where all these ladybugs are coming from. All over my room! I dont get it :confused:
I'm hoping your talking about the insect and not the knife. Mostly because you can tell people you have an infestation of cuteness.

[markg]

Knives are like NASCAR... Ford-Chevy-Dodge (heck now even Toyota). We all have brand loyalty, however I prefer to keep such things as good natured ribbing. We have all seen, where our rights as knife owners are being attacked, I don't thinking knife owners and collectors have any thing to gain from needless animosity within the ranks. Also, we have all see knife companies sell out, wholesale, to cheap knives made off shore. There is plenty of room for both Benchmade and Spyderco. Two American companies that employ local workers to make world class cutlery. No one here gains anything by running a company in the ground, except putting your friends and neighbors our of work. I have owned nearly 200 knives from both companies, and they have lived peacefully together for many years...

As for the Axis lock, consider the "Internet Effect" one person (or heck even 10 people) have an Axis lock omega spring break, post it on a forum, and heck it looks like the thing stinks. I have had over 50 knives with Axis locks and none has broken in use. It is a great lock, deploys well, and has never let me down. It adapts well to use with automatics also. It also makes a truly ambidextrous knife. As has been mentioned, it is also one of the smoothest knife locks around. Fear of "stuff" in the lock is over rated, and frankly would also be a concern for the Spyderco ball lock, if that is the case.

As for why Benchmade does not use it on all knives, the designer of the knife has some input. Some don't want to ruin the looks or lines of their design. There was also some rumor that McHenry and Williams (designers of the Axis Lock) have some input as to who can use the lock, regarding Benchmade collaborations (reliable source, but not substantiated, however).

Spyderco has a bunch of locks to choose from, however of all, my favorite is the compression lock. I love the compression lock. Aside from an early Dodo, I have not had a Spyderco lock fail me yet. Lock failure from both companies, has been about equal (one each).

Now, I can dream... A Spyderco Military with an Axis lock... Oh that would be nice... :D

[smcfalls13]

Hey Franco

Touche:cool:

[Capt. Carl]

I am going to say that axis lock is my favorite.

[dedguy]

I am going to say that a variety of locks are my favorite. I don't like too much of one thing no matter how good.

[krazichinaman]

The Axis lock works just fine when there is dirt in it.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IgRTTz-lt6c
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[Chucula]

The Axis lock works just fine when there is dirt in it.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IgRTTz-lt6c


Doesnt count, he used clean dirt. :D

For those wondering, I was talking about ladybug bugs, not knives. I had a bunch of them last winter and now I see one every now and then wandering around my wall or window. I cant figure out where they are getting in.

[Darkfin]

I like button locks. Axis and moreso--ball bearing, are hard (for me) to close with one hand.

[DRod]

I for one was LESS than impressed with the Axis lock. It had play, rattled and just straight felt cheep to use. It even had blade play. Much like most BM knives Ive handled.
The BB is so much nicer, stronger, quieter, smoother, just out right better IMHO. Best of all, my D'Allara as absolutely ZERO blade play in any direction. I feel that the lock back would be totally obsolete, if there was just a way to make it more moisture friendly. It does tend to get slippery sometimes, but even still I can open and close it easily with one hand.

[steve andrews]

I understand that the membership here are dedicated and loyal Spyderco fans, but you can't knock the Axis lock. It's a truly ingenious design.

I have lots of Axis locks knives. I love the fact that you can tune the knife to the exact opening characteristics that you desire. I tighten them up so that the blade won't quite move by gravity alone when the Axis studs are operated. The blade is held shut by a little resistance when closed, but when thumbed open the blade glides smoothly to the open position, where it is held with a zero play rock-solid lock up.
I have found the mechanism to be easy to maintain. I wash them in soapy water and then dry them out with the air compressor at work.. 200 Bar gets that lock dry and clean! Then a drop of Militec1. Oh..and I've never had a spring break.

http://img84.imageshack.us/img84/9991/20070404007oh8.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

[dedguy]

For those wondering, I was talking about ladybug bugs, not knives. I had a bunch of them last winter and now I see one every now and then wandering around my wall or window. I cant figure out where they are getting in.

In a way that is really great. If it was pretty much any other insect it would be terrible. But ladybugs? they're just so damn adorable. You can't get mad at a ladybug. Count youself lucky, I constantly have earwigs and silverfish in my bathroom and there's nothing cute about them.

[dalefuller]

Nice pic, Steve. Mine coexist peacefully, even cooperatively, also. One of my fav carry combos is a D2 mini-Grip in LFP and a Para-Millie IWB. In fact, I do that more than any other combo. And I have zero blade play in my Axis or compression lock (or any other lock style) knives when they are open and properly locked.

Any lock can fail when it's improperly used or maintained, but it seems to me that a well executed Axis or compression or ball bearing or liner lock should be easy to examine, clean, & restore to a safe working condition just by rinsing, drying, and lubricating them. And in my experience (limited to about 36 folders almost evenly split between Spyderco & Benchmade), both companies do a good job of producing their locks and knives.

[Franco G]

I for one was LESS than impressed with the Axis lock. It had play, rattled and just straight felt cheep to use. It even had blade play. Much like most BM knives Ive handled.

Incredible,

you are really THE_INCREDIBLE_ (no offense). Sal himself, ipse dixit (the Latin version of what the Aristotle students were saying), said in some thread that Axis lock is very strong and reliable. This is something you would expect from Sal - the integrity and correctness.
Many people praised the Axis, including the Spyderco fans.
Both Axis and compression lock are very strong and reliable.
Sorry, Kristi.

Franco

[D-DAY]

By virtue of the Axis mechanism, I fail to see how you could even get vertical blade play. I have several BM's and have no problems with this. Horizontal play is possible, but should be an easy fix with an allan wrench.

Personally I like the more manly frame lock of the BM Skirmish, or CR's Sebenza.

[cobrajoe]

By virtue of the Axis mechanism, I fail to see how you could even get vertical blade play. I have several BM's and have no problems with this. Horizontal play is possible, but should be an easy fix with an allan wrench.

Personally I like the more manly frame lock of the BM Skirmish, or CR's Sebenza.
I think it's all in the angle of the "ramp" in the lock. Too steep of an angle, and the blade will actually be able to push the lock in the direction to unlock it.

By the same virtue, there should be absolutely no play in ball, comp, and liner locks, but my dodo and my salsas both have slight amounts of vertical play (not so much that I'm afraid of them disengaging though).

[cobrajoe]

...

Ad 1.
My personal experience with Axis is BM 710 M2, the only one BM folder I own. It is a perfect lock, no blade play. If you notice blade play it is because of the lint - just clean it and everything is OK.
I do not say the BB lock is weaker. It should be, by construction (it is just physics!), similar in strength to Axis. However, as I said, it is still in development - some problems reported show that it still should (and shall) be refined.

...

Franco
Actually, I'd belive the ball lock to be much stronger (as long as there is no slipping for either the axis or the ball lock). A piece of metal in shear will fail much sooner than the same piece in tension or compression, not to mention that the BB looks much more substantial than a small diameter pin.

Not to say that I don't think the axis lock is a brilliant design, in fact, that's the very reason I've actually looked at purchasing a BM product (I never have, I just don't like their designs).

[yablanowitz]

For me, the Axis and BB locks share a pair of traits that I find most annoying.

1) Access to the lock release effectively precludes mounting a clip for reasonably low ride tip down carry. I feel this limits carry options, and I exersize a LOT of carry options.

2) In my opinion, neither provides sufficient closing bias to be safely carried tip up. If one must rely on the position of the knife in the pocket to render it safe (must keep the spine of the blade against the seam of the pocket), it is not safe to carry. If I had a job where I never had to move enough to cause a knife to shift position in my pocket, I might feel differently. I don't have such a job, and probably couldn't stand it if I did. I have lost enough clothing and blood to tip up knives that I just don't trust them.

As I have stated before, I don't consider locks to be vital anyway, and I certainly don't see any reason for Spyderco to adopt the Axis. Especially since Sal has said that he has locks designed that we haven't even seen yet.

[David Lowry]

Knives are like NASCAR... Ford-Chevy-Dodge (heck now even Toyota). We all have brand loyalty, however I prefer to keep such things as good natured ribbing. We have all seen, where our rights as knife owners are being attacked, I don't thinking knife owners and collectors have any thing to gain from needless animosity within the ranks. Also, we have all see knife companies sell out, wholesale, to cheap knives made off shore. There is plenty of room for both Benchmade and Spyderco. Two American companies that employ local workers to make world class cutlery. No one here gains anything by running a company in the ground, except putting your friends and neighbors our of work. I have owned nearly 200 knives from both companies, and they have lived peacefully together for many years...

As for the Axis lock, consider the "Internet Effect" one person (or heck even 10 people) have an Axis lock omega spring break, post it on a forum, and heck it looks like the thing stinks. I have had over 50 knives with Axis locks and none has broken in use. It is a great lock, deploys well, and has never let me down. It adapts well to use with automatics also. It also makes a truly ambidextrous knife. As has been mentioned, it is also one of the smoothest knife locks around. Fear of "stuff" in the lock is over rated, and frankly would also be a concern for the Spyderco ball lock, if that is the case.

As for why Benchmade does not use it on all knives, the designer of the knife has some input. Some don't want to ruin the looks or lines of their design. There was also some rumor that McHenry and Williams (designers of the Axis Lock) have some input as to who can use the lock, regarding Benchmade collaborations (reliable source, but not substantiated, however).

Spyderco has a bunch of locks to choose from, however of all, my favorite is the compression lock. I love the compression lock. Aside from an early Dodo, I have not had a Spyderco lock fail me yet. Lock failure from both companies, has been about equal (one each).

Now, I can dream... A Spyderco Military with an Axis lock... Oh that would be nice... :D

Mark,

As always, you say things with such grace. It's always good to see you over here and "over there".

I don't really have much to add, just that I agree with you.



For me, the Axis and BB locks share a pair of traits that I find most annoying.

1) Access to the lock release effectively precludes mounting a clip for reasonably low ride tip down carry. I feel this limits carry options, and I exersize a LOT of carry options.

2) In my opinion, neither provides sufficient closing bias to be safely carried tip up. If one must rely on the position of the knife in the pocket to render it safe (must keep the spine of the blade against the seam of the pocket), it is not safe to carry. If I had a job where I never had to move enough to cause a knife to shift position in my pocket, I might feel differently. I don't have such a job, and probably couldn't stand it if I did. I have lost enough clothing and blood to tip up knives that I just don't trust them.

As I have stated before, I don't consider locks to be vital anyway, and I certainly don't see any reason for Spyderco to adopt the Axis. Especially since Sal has said that he has locks designed that we haven't even seen yet.

My Axis lock knives snap shut within the last inch or so. They all do. Not as good as a lock back but almost as good. Now on the other hand the D'Allara Drop Point I had wanted to come open at the slightest movement. It was easily fixed however by tightening the pivot a little bit. :)

[TEB]

I like the Axis lock. Would I like to see one on a Spyderco? No, not really. I am looking forward to a Spyderco BB lock with a cage for the D'Allara DP.

[DRod]

Incredible,

you are really THE_INCREDIBLE_ (no offense). Sal himself, ipse dixit (the Latin version of what the Aristotle students were saying), said in some thread that Axis lock is very strong and reliable. This is something you would expect from Sal - the integrity and correctness.
Many people praised the Axis, including the Spyderco fans.
Both Axis and compression lock are very strong and reliable.
Sorry, Kristi.

Franco
That may be, but in my experience they have been less than favorable over the BB. I tried them while in Kansas a few months ago since no one around here carries them. I figured it was just the display model so I asked to see a few out of the box. Sure they locked up better than the display but still had rattles and had blade play. Its just been MY experience that they haven't impressed me out of the box. Who knows, I might find one out there that is as rock solid as my D'Allara. But fact is, I don't respect the company enough to give them a chance. Sad but true. In my eyes, they are not as reputable, and they make (IN MY EXPERIENCE) a lesser quality product than Sal.

[yablanowitz]

My Axis lock knives snap shut within the last inch or so. They all do. Not as good as a lock back but almost as good. Now on the other hand the D'Allara Drop Point I had wanted to come open at the slightest movement. It was easily fixed however by tightening the pivot a little bit. :)

Of the seven Axis lock knives I have, zero of them are even close to the snap of a good lockback. YMMV.

I carry my Dodo in the left leg pocket of my carpenter jeans along with a Native, which wedges it tightly enough that it can't shift or open, which it has done when carried in that pocket alone. Like I said, I've lost enough clothing and blood. Make mine tip down, and give me something with enough snap to remove unwary fingertips. I can handle it. :D

[al888]

Axis is the best lock in the world.
I think Spydercos are, presently, in general, the best knives in the world.
Franco
like this?

[DRod]

First word that came to mind when I saw that started with a bas and ended with a terd. But I do have to admit, it dosen't look bad. It'd just look better with a ball. :) To me anyway. Whats the story with it? Can't post something like that without a history. C'omon.

[Vincent]

Axis Locks are Bad news,


Dont you guys remember


http://www.eng.buffalo.edu/~vhp/lists/re710.wmv

[Vincent]

[QUOTE=Vincent]Axis Locks are Bad news,


Dont you guys remember


http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=8554907011337941497

[zenheretic]

Is there an echo in here? :D

[J.B]

I didn´t want to mention this clip and I didn´t want to mention the other Axis Lock failures I´ve heard of because I´ve decided to be more kind on this. By the way, if a Spydie would fail you practically all of the times would end up with the choil or the kick on your finger. If the Axis Lock fails, you could end up with a deep wound or a finger less. Perhaps that´s because BM is eager to press the last bit of sharp edge out of a blade. That shall not mean they are in general eager to press out anything else up to the last bit. :rolleyes:

Best wishes,
JB

[cheez]

I like Spydercos better, for a lot of reasons (for instance their approach to the customer, being innovative, taking risks, and their general attitude....and many more). I dont like Benchmade *anymore* since they started "using" the spyderhole.

But, credit where credit is due. I have seen few, very few Spydercos that have a fit and finish as good as a Benchmade.

Since you likely want examples - gaps between liners and G10, vertical play in pretty much every lockback, laser marks in holes and lockbars (seems to be a standard; I understand it wouldnt be cost effective to polish them)

I know these are cosmetic issues, but isnt that what we call a "finish"?

Keno

[DRod]

[QUOTE=Vincent]Axis Locks are Bad news,
Dont you guys remember
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=8554907011337941497

Sounds like a movie gun. Perp pulls out a gun and it rattles, you know, cause they do in movies. Id try that with my D'Allara right about now, but Im sure my neighbors might not like that 4:15 in the morning and all.

[Vincent]

[QUOTE=Vincent]

Sounds like a movie gun. Perp pulls out a gun and it rattles, you know, cause they do in movies. Id try that with my D'Allara right about now, but Im sure my neighbors might not like that 4:15 in the morning and all.

the D'allara wont fail, a BM 710 will.

[Franco G]

If the Axis Lock fails, you could end up with a deep wound or a finger less. Perhaps that´s because BM is eager to press the last bit of sharp edge out of a blade. That shall not mean they are in general eager to press out anything else up to the last bit. :rolleyes:

Best wishes,
JB

What would happen if Lil' T fails?

Actually, I like ricasso (or choil) because of safety - although I am not quite sure that it really helps much.
The best thing would be to prolong slightly a tang down and have a sort of half-guard.

Franco

[J.B]

What would happen if Lil' T fails?

Actually, I like ricasso (or choil) because of safety - although I am not quite sure that it really helps much.
The best thing would be to prolong slightly a tang down and have a sort of half-guard.

Franco

The Lil´T has like the Gunting a small kick that prevents the index or small finger from being cut. The named safety feature is at least a good chance more to get out safely. It´s one of Spyderco´s great design elements.

Best wishes,
JB

[Franco G]

The Lil´T has like the Gunting a small kick that prevents the index or small finger from being cut. The named safety feature is at least a good chance more to get out safely. It´s one of Spyderco´s great design elements.

Best wishes,
JB

Agree. But this kick could be, without any problems, slightly longer, i.e., follow the lower handle guard. No problem when closed, but big plus in security. Even esthetically better. Sal, please your comment.

Franco

[sal]

Hi Franco,

The Lil Temp was a very design specific model. The blade length limit of 3" was fully utilized, for cutting edge and strength. A longer "kick" on this model meant less edge.

sal

[al888]

First word that came to mind when I saw that started with a bas and ended with a terd. But I do have to admit, it dosen't look bad. It'd just look better with a ball. :) To me anyway. Whats the story with it? Can't post something like that without a history. C'omon.

Custom made. In the country, where US patents do not apply.
Made for a local lefty, who wanted "fat" handle. Blade - analog of D-2.
Only one was made.

[scout]

I've always been a fan of edges that come right to the handle. In jurisdictions that limit blade length, I don't want any wasted space ie. cent3 or lil t.

[Franco G]

Hi Franco,

The Lil Temp was a very design specific model. The blade length limit of 3" was fully utilized, for cutting edge and strength. A longer "kick" on this model meant less edge.

sal

No Sal, perhaps my English was not precise enough. I'll try to explain in another way:
There is a small semi-guard on the down part of the handle. Inside the G-10 semi-guard - empty space. Fill that with a blade, so that blade itself has this semi-guard. So, it does not mean less edge - the edge would have the same length as before.

It would work - no problem in closing the knife.

Franco

[Vincent]

The only way a Lil Temp is Failing is if you put enough torque on it that the handle snaps, the pivot breaks or you put so much force the steel melts.

The compression lock is about as perfect of a lock as you can get, the axis lock as a similar idea in mind, though the axis locks weakness is in the roundness, which they round everything to make it smoother.

[cobrajoe]

No Sal, perhaps my English was not precise enough. I'll try to explain in another way:
There is a small semi-guard on the down part of the handle. Inside the G-10 semi-guard - empty space. Fill that with a blade, so that blade itself has this semi-guard. So, it does not mean less edge - the edge would have the same length as before.

It would work - no problem in closing the knife.

Franco
I think I understand what you're saying, but this might interfere when the blade is closed.

Part of the genious of the comp lock is the pin that stops the blade when it's opening also stops the blade when it's closing. This adds to the simplicity of the design, but it requires a blade tang designed a certain way. The semi-gaurd that you speak of might stop the blade from closing completely.

[sal]

Thanx Franco.

There is not a lot of room for much of an extension there. the cutout for the lock release limits the length in the closed postion on the current model, but I think your suggestion is possible.

However, one day :rolleyes: I will refine the model and will keep you suggestion in mind.

sal

[steeltiger]

Wow thanks for the input, youve given me alot of information and opinions.
personaly I don't think spyderco really needs the axis, they have plenty enough well engeneered locks as is, and to have the BB and axis, seems unecessary. so the end result, we don't have the rights to it? or can it be said if wo do or not, thanks for the input,thanks.:)