What would you have done?

[Kaizen]

Hey people,

I'm fortunate enough to be within driving distance of a few stores that sell quality knives. One store in a nearby mall, I stepped in and asked to see the only Spydie they had- a ZDP Caly Jr (they also had some Byrd knives). So the guy hands me the knife and picks up a piece of paper and begins to read it aloud as I fondle the oh-so-cool knife. I'll do my best to remember exactly what he read to me:

"This is the Endura 4 ZDP. It had a rockwell hardness of between 90-95. ZDP is the newest and greatest steel on the market today. It hasn't been 100% proven yet, but I'm pretty sure that it's the sharpest knife on the planet."

Wow. I was just waiting for him to tell me that it NEVER gets dull at this point. I didn't know what to say, so I pretty much didn't say anything. I said something like "Oh, okay." And that was the end of it. I thought the situation was hilarious. Then my second thought was "how much of a knife geek do I need to be in order to KNOW that this is hilarious?". ANyway, I'm curious to know how you guys would've handled the situation. Would you laughed? Corrected him? Nothing (like me)?

In either case, I thought I'd share the experience. On an interesting sidenote, the store that I visited just before this mall store had the Street Beat. Holy C--P!!! I had know idea that it was as small as it is (in a cool way). That almost immediately bumped it up to the "gotta-get-it-next" Spydie. I'm just having a difficult time justifying the purchase, because I know that I'll almost never carry it due to state laws (It has to show because it's fixed). I'll generally wear a larger shirt or a sweater or coat that will make it difficult to carry it comfortably while showing it.

[rcbalt2]

I would have corrected him. I don't see a reason to let stupidity to continue to exist. I've ran into similar stuff last time I went to a local knife store. The exception was onestopknifeshop. Very knowledgeable owner.

[krazichinaman]

I would have corrected the person with the correct information. I did it before at a local store before.
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[Piet.S]

It depends on the person.
If I sense an interest in knives or at least in the products they sell, I might tell em.
If not, no need to lecture, just embarresing for both.

[Bolster]

I'm not so sure I would have corrected him.

I had an incident very similar to this years ago, but the item was a camera lens, not a knife. The owner of the store (Inland Cameras of Colton, California) was trying to sell me a broken lens, of a particular kind I collect, and when I pointed out the broken part (the diaphram would not stop down), he decided to "up the ante" and told me that this particular lens was designed on purpose this way. I said, "That's interesting, because I already own this lens, and mine stops all the way down like any other lens."

He was stuck, and had to save face, so his response was, "You calling me a liar?" Well, I was stuck, too, and also had to save face, so I said, "That's exactly what I'm calling you." To which he responded, "You get the (string of explatives deleted) outta my store and if you ever come in here again I will (more explatives) you until you're (explatives)." I told him, sans explatives, that there was no need to kick me out of the store because I was going anyway; I wouldn't buy anything from him under any conditions, and left.

Outcome was, (1) I crossed that store off the list for lens hunting, although it had furnished a few treasures in the past; and (2) I did not change the owner in any way; the argument was a complete waste of effort. What is it they say about wrestling with a pig? You both get dirty and the pig actually enjoys it.

I'm cynical about the prospects of actually educating someone in a confrontive way. Yes it can be done, but it's the hard way to do it. The most efficient way to educate is in a nonconfrontational manner, and why would you want to waste your time on a salesperson this ignorant or deceptive? Your time and knowledge is valuable, why squander it on a fool?

So I think you did the right thing -- enjoy a good laugh to yourself and marvel at the ignorance and deceptiveness of the human race; it's a good story to tell your pals, that's all.

[JBE]

I would have let it pass...I mean the guy had to actually read this off a piece of paper. Not so much ignorance as a lack of product knowledge and probably no desire to learn such. Any attempts at correction would have probably fell on deaf ears.

[moeman]

I would have said something, but they probably wouldn't listen...

[jaislandboy]

Funny story Ignoramus....
You could've called his bluff and waste precious breath and minutes from your life .... :rolleyes: but why bother.... I would've done what u did......but i'd probably laugh then walk off... ;)

[Agent Starling]

I would have let it go...it's not like it's a personal affront, so what would it accomplish...but OTOH if the salesperson was blatantly talking $*** to me I'd certainly let him/her know! Ha! just kidding...:p

Can't tell you how many times I've gone to a knife store and the salesperson knows NOTHING about Spyders, not even the less exotic ones:eek: (are there any???:D )

Starling

[peacefuljeffrey]

My desire is generally to correct errors and misconceptions wherever I find them. Of course, the optimal way to do so is gently, politely, so that you don't actually alienate, humiliate, or anger the person to whom you're trying to impart knowledge. If you put them off by being too forceful, arrogant or condescending, you won't teach them: they'll build a wall to keep out anything you say, and they'll actively retreat to the opposite of what you tell them is truth.

Each instance has to be evaluated on its own merits, to see whether there's a point to doing the correction. Just like capitulating to a mugger sends him off to make a victim out of others, while fighting him protects untold future victims, so informing a misinformed person protects future customers who might be pursuaded to buy something that is not suited to them because of errors reported as fact.

As for that camera guy, he seems to have been outright hostile. I think that in his case, he knew he was lying -- or at the very least embellishing beyond his actual knowledge, which is also wrong, and people know when they're doing it so there's no excuse. He wanted to unload a broken piece on you, to profit by it. He is, essentially, a corrupt person. A non-corrupt person would defer to superior knowledge of the item and accept learning.

He had nowhere to turn once he found out you knew he was full of it. His reaction of "verbal violence" equates him with a violent criminal: once he is found out, he has to go on the attack. And he puts on this false front of taking umbrage at being called a liar.

I don't suppose that there's any changing that sort of person. Best to just learn he's that way, and then stay far away.

-PJ

[Kaizen]

I think the main reason I didn't say anything was that I wasn't so sure if any good would've come from it. By that I mean that the guy might've went on the defensive. In either case, great points from all of you.

As for the camera situation, the guy was on par with intentional dishonesty, even if he wasn't sure IMHO. He immediately got "offended" and attacked you so I'm not so sure any form of correction would've been much different. I think you did the right thing.

[EarthDog]

"People only see what they are prepared to see"

And people only hear what they are prepared to hear. I suspect you sensed what the clerk was prepared to hear and that you were wise to hold your counsel.

[DRod]

90 to 95.. WOW, isn't that like... diamond? lol.

When I was in Kansas I stopped at a shop with my brother and looked at some SS Enduras. The clerk kept pushing BMs (really). He wouldn't leave it alone. So I asked to see one of the colored handled ones with the AXIS lock that he was trying to sell us and shook it like I always do with Axis locks, cause im yeah, biased. lol . Picked up the Endura and shook it too. As I was expecting the BM's lock rattled a little, predictably the Endura was silent. Then he said, well its got better steel anyway, its has 440 and thats the best. It was D2.. Half right, no sale. I kinda giggled and handed it back to him. It was a great knife, a red 960, but they had it tagged at 180 and thats just too much. I do think that it along with it seems most of the BMs rattled because of him though. He had a griptillan and would flick them open and closed so Im almost positive he had been wearing them loose. It seemed like the pivots were loose on most the BMs that we looked at. Thinking back though, I have to admit, the mini rukus was really interesting me. It was really really nice, and I about bought it, but... it just didn't feel like it was worth it. THAT one was tagged 210. :( I asked him why they were so high priced and he didn't have an answer. Even the four or five Stainless Enduras we looked at were up in the 90s.

[tonydahose]

well first off i think the guy should have your screen name on his name tag:p . if he was that ignorant of what kind of knife it was i would have offered him $25 for it. he might be stupid enough to have taken it.;)

[jujigatame]

Another option would be to say...

"I heard the same thing about a knife for sale on QVC or HSN the other night. Wait a minute, was that you on TV? Can I have your autograph?"

:D

[Episteme]

I've been to some outdoor/mountain/ems-type places, and most sales associates really are no where near as educated about the cutlery they sell as anyone of us forumites. However, whenever stupidity is pontificated about a particular product, I ussually mention something like, "I might be wrong, but I thought that....(insert correction here)". Always be polite and respectful, and sometimes I've even had the two sales associates at a store in Pennsylvania jokingly ask me if I could come in some day and give a presentation about the products that they sell (mostly SOG's, some Spyderco's). Some salespersons are even interested to learn more. When dealing with any interpersonal interaction, one of my maxims is to be respectful and professional--doing so ussually goes a long way. Plus, it's just the proper way to treat people.
-Mike

[The Deacon]

I might have chuckled, I might have rolled my eyes, but I'd be so damn happy to have even ONE B&M with a decent selection of Spydercos within a half hour drive that I'd probably just have ignored it.

[DRod]

I might have chuckled, I might have rolled my eyes, but I'd be so damn happy to have even ONE B&M with a decent selection of Spydercos within a half hour drive that I'd probably just have ignored it.

Good point. The only place within fifty miles of me that carries spyerco is Gander Mtn. And even then, they only carry older Enduras and Delicas in platic blister packs. Thats where I got my CE E3.

[moeman]

I ended up pretty lucky, GPknives is about 25 miles form my house and Mike Seems to know his stuff...

[SoCal Operator]

Perhaps a little off topic, but was that "mall store" Plaza Cutlery by any chance? If so, then I handled that same Street Beat, and I agree with everything you have to say. As for the story, I'd like to say I would have been polite, but I probably would have blurted out some correction and made myself look silly.

[Mr Blonde]

I would have wanted to know the source of the piece of paper he read it from. A lot of it depends on the situation, but whenever I come across a salesperson who doesn't have all his or her facts straight I tend to strike up a little chat and correct the worst of the misinformation. Always positive, because I'm generally too happy to be in a decent B&M store.

Wouter

[Kaizen]

Perhaps a little off topic, but was that "mall store" Plaza Cutlery by any chance? If so, then I handled that same Street Beat, and I agree with everything you have to say. As for the story, I'd like to say I would have been polite, but I probably would have blurted out some correction and made myself look silly.

I'm here in the SF Bay Area. The stores close to me are:
Tad Gear:D
We Be Knives (in Pier 39):D
And I believe the other place in the mall is called John Q's

The guys at Tad Gear are the only ones so far who I've met that know more than I do (not surprisingly).

[Kaizen]

I would have wanted to know the source of the piece of paper he read it from. A lot of it depends on the situation, but whenever I come across a salesperson who doesn't have all his or her facts straight I tend to strike up a little chat and correct the worst of the misinformation. Always positive, because I'm generally too happy to be in a decent B&M store.

Wouter

That might have actually happened, but someone asked me about the UFC shirt I was wearing and all of a sudden everyone was talking about MMA. I train in Muay Thai and Jujitsu. I really am glad that I'm so close to these stores though.