H1 Vs.420 Hc

[MANIXWORLD]

I would like to know how H1 bladesteel in plainedge compares to 420HC bladesteel in plainedge specific?
The HC does stand for High Carbon i recall.
i know that H1 steel in plain is about equal to AUS6,but i'm not realy familiar with AUS6 bladesteel.
Would 420HC have a notch better edgeholding over H1,because 420HC is heattreated for example BUCK knives's 420HC?
MW.

[Zozo*HC*]

FOR me, anything what starts with 420 is absolutely forbidden. IMO H1 is outperform 420HC.

[MANIXWORLD]

I dont have a liking towards 420 myself,i just need to know with regards to heattreatment of this steel as suppose to H1 that is cold hardened.
MW.

[Kaizen]

I dont have a liking towards 420 myself,i just need to know with regards to heattreatment of this steel as suppose to H1 that is cold hardened.
MW.

I think it's been referred to as "work hardened". They might mean the same thing, I wouldn't know.

[yablanowitz]

Properly heat-treated 420HC is adequate for the needs of most people. We steel snobs/knife knuts may turn our noses up at it, but in the real world it works. The same can be said for H-1. Its biggest selling point is being totally rust-proof, a consideration that is important to some people, especially those who live in humid areas and don't want to take even minimal care of their knives.

Personally, I live in a semi-arid region, take care of my knives and value edge-holding ability over ease of sharpening. The only H-1 knife I own is a Pacific Salt I bought to send to Tom Krein for a regrind just to see if FFG was possible in H-1. Someone else beat me to the draw, and I haven't even carried the Salt. The Case knives I have in 420HC hold an edge reasonably well, slightly better than Spyderco AUS-6 and much better than any other AUS-6 I have tried.

[MANIXWORLD]

I think it's been referred to as "work hardened". They might mean the same thing, I wouldn't know.

Sorry,i meant workhardened,that would most probably be under cooler conditions anyway,but roll hardened,i guess means workhardened?
Oh how i still want to up my knowledge on all these things.

[Kaizen]

Personally, I live in a semi-arid region, take care of my knives and value edge-holding ability over ease of sharpening.

So your favorite steel is ZDP?

[yablanowitz]

I don't really have a favorite. I do like ZDP-189, D2, BG-42 and 440V. I still like ATS-34 as well.

Back to topic, work hardening basically means the steel is hardened by working at low temperatures. Cold rolling will cause work hardening in most steel, H-1 included.

[spoonrobot]

I bought to send to Tom Krein for a regrind just to see if FFG was possible in H-1. Someone else beat me to the draw

What was the outcome of this? I've been wondering for a while if it was possible/ a good idea but don't have the money for the regrind.

[yablanowitz]

I hadn't send mine to him before I saw one that he did for someone else. He said that flat grinding the H-1 was no problem at all, but he does his grinding entirely by hand, without gloves so he doesn't overheat the steel. I suspect he also alternates sides to keep the work-hardening even. I don't think his methods are easily adaptable for mass production, so I'm not holding my breath waiting for prodution flat grinds on H-1. It did look nice, though. I love my ZDP Endura I had Tom flat grind.

[huugh]

I hadn't send mine to him before I saw one that he did for someone else. He said that flat grinding the H-1 was no problem at all, but he does his grinding entirely by hand, without gloves so he doesn't overheat the steel. I suspect he also alternates sides to keep the work-hardening even. I don't think his methods are easily adaptable for mass production, so I'm not holding my breath waiting for prodution flat grinds on H-1. It did look nice, though. I love my ZDP Endura I had Tom flat grind.

Grinding is not cold/work hardening...
Cold/work hardening requires plastic deformation. Good example of work hardened blades are old scythes which edges had to be hammered once in a while to perform.

FYI heat (it doesn't matter if generated by friction or by something else) would result in annealing of the steel, i.e. the opposite of hardening...

There were few threads on H1 and work hardening and in none of them this issue (what cold/work hardening is as opposed to what was presented as "hardened by sharpening and grinding") was explained. But I'm still waiting :)

[yablanowitz]

My understanding of work hardening as related to H-1 is that grinding does indeed cause work hardening, otherwise the serrated edges and plain edges would be the same hardness, and grinding one side at a time would pose no problem. But I admit I know almost nothing about that steel.

I was a bit unclear about the heat issue, though. Tom said he does all his grinding the same way. In conventional steels, it prevents heat buildup which would affect the steel (ruining the heat treatment by annealing the blade as you said). I'm not sure what heat would do to H-1, since it isn't conventionally heat-treated.

[MANIXWORLD]

Thats an interesting thought on what the effects of heat would be on H1.
If too much heat came in contact
with H1 steel,what would happen to it,for instance grinding effects on the steel?

[The Deacon]

I would like to know how H1 bladesteel in plainedge compares to 420HC bladesteel in plainedge specific?
The HC does stand for High Carbon i recall.
i know that H1 steel in plain is about equal to AUS6,but i'm not realy familiar with AUS6 bladesteel.
Would 420HC have a notch better edgeholding over H1,because 420HC is heattreated for example BUCK knives's 420HC?
MW.Actually, in one of your several other H-1 related threads, Sal said that H-1 in PE compares to AUS-8, which is about two steps up the ladder from AUS-6 when it comes to edge retention. I would personally rate Buck's 420HC as at least one, and probably two steps down the ladder from Spyderco's AUS-6 for edge retention, so it would certainly be inferior in that regard to H-1.

[smcfalls13]

I have an old Buck knife this is 420HC, and though it doesn't hold on edge for very long, it's quite durable.

I'd still give H-1 the nod though, as it's only marginally more expensive, and the list of positives for it is pretty long.

[A.P.F.]

Just for interest sake, here (http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=509097) is a test that Vassili did of 420HC vs. INFI. Quite surprising.

[huugh]

My understanding of work hardening as related to H-1 is that grinding does indeed cause work hardening, ...
...

...I'm not sure what heat would do to H-1, since it isn't conventionally heat-treated.

HOW can grinding cause work hardening?

I've asked before and got no explanation for what is claimed about hardening of H-1 but you might have some info I don't?

As for what would be effects of heat - I don't know about H-1 BUT cold/work hardened steel would be annealed (=hardening effects would be relieved/removed).


So in the contrary to what is cold/work hardened steel and how it behaves we've been told that H-1's behaviour is almost opposite (hardening by heat or during grinding)...

Maybe I'm just so dumb so please try to explain to me what seems to be obvious for many of you. Thanks.

[Zenith]

ManixWorld

Aus6 Is usually used in your more affordable $30 Kershaw knives if that helps for some refrence

[Lostification]

All I know is that Buck uses 420HC... lol! :o

[malice4you]

They use ATS-34 on some of their high-end knives....I have that on my Buck Odyssey 181 folders, one of which was an EDC for me for years. Problem was, when I went to replace it, Buck's knives either doubled to tripled in price for ATS-34 bladed knives with fewer/worse features, or had gone to 420HC steel and molded (not laser cut like I believe my odysseys are), and these were still the same price or higher than I paid for my Odyssey that I carried for 8 years.

A Buck served me well for many years, and I was very happy with the specific knife I had. I've tried in vain to find an EXACT same copy, which I cannot find. I'll keep searching, but I know I'll never carry a 420HC blade for anything as a primary use knife (though I do carry a Buck NXT 420HC for airsoft, mostly because I rarely use a knife then, it grips my pocket and refuses to come out, and I don't care if I lose the dumb thing....worst knife purchase ever....)

For my uses, I don't need H1 really. I own the Tasman Salt SE, mostly because I wanted a SE hawkbill with a FRN handle, and since no Merlins or G10 harpys were available, I went for that. I'm not so sure I'd like the tasman in PE - that I think will go to a merlin/harpy/future hawkbill since I'd prefer a better blade steel, though for the most part, I wouldn't worry about my H1 getting too dull, since I do now have the sharpmaker and can sharpen the blade well. However, given the choice, I'd prefer the harder steel that will serve me longer over a softer steel that is rustproof. (And I'll take both of them over 420HC anytime)