Mule Handles and a request, Sal

[potterma]

Sal,
I'll echo others comments on the board over the last few days and ask, no BEG that the handle mounting holes move up to 3/16... Or, at least, start the laser cut in the center of the cut-out, rather than outside. That kerf on the outside of the hole makes machining a real mother!

I used 18-8 stainless 3/16 OD spacers and threaded them for #4-40 screws. Opened the .164" holes to .188 with a carbide bit, but had to futs with the holes with the dremel to get them round enough for the spacers to go in.... :(

http://img143.imageshack.us/img143/3584/mule11ji7.jpg

http://img237.imageshack.us/img237/5331/mule12xk6.jpg

[brainus]

Those are beautiful scales.

[jaislandboy]

yowza Michael :cool: :eek: :cool:
what took you so long? :confused: ;) :D

[SimpleIsGood229]

Wow! That is very, very nice! :eek: :cool:

[myatt371]

I'm jealous! :D

[sal]

Nice job.

No problem changing hole sizes to 3/16. Let's see how many also want the change.

sal

[westfork]

Very impressive!

[arnon]

Very cool :cool:
Arnon

[Slick]

Nice job.

No problem changing hole sizes to 3/16. Let's see how many also want the change.

sal

I'm not sure what size will be best for the hole sizes but I am sure they should be a 'standard' size for finding hardware.

If I may ask, why were the hole sizes for the MT01P decided upon?

[carrot]

I don't know how I feel about that... I'm getting a set of Mule scales made that'll be designed to move from one Mule to the next, so any change in holes will probably prevent that from working out too well.

[gaj999]

A hole size that allows for easy to get hardware, or a pointer to hardware that fits, is high on my list.

Gordon

[sal]

I'm not sure what size will be best for the hole sizes but I am sure they should be a 'standard' size for finding hardware.

If I may ask, why were the hole sizes for the MT01P decided upon?

We thought that would be a standard size, easy to find. :o

sal

[araneae]

I definitely would like to see a more common hole size or a way of getting the right hardware. So far my efforts have been fruitless.
Thanks

[carrot]

Maybe Sal or someone else over at Spyderco could point us in the right direction to procure the proper size screws for the Mules?

[GeorgeMaggos]

Nice job.

No problem changing hole sizes to 3/16. Let's see how many also want the change.

sal


We thought that would be a standard size, easy to find. :o

sal

Hey Sal,

first of all thank you for the mule team project & I am behind you all the way no matter what I have completed my collector club agreement for the entire mule series & I sent it back to Karen I am in for the long run whatever steel is used I am in :)

I have some questions about the Mule knife you had handles put on - your mule with the black G-10( I think ), the one you sent to Scott Gere for the sheath fitting, can you please describe in detail that knives handles to us.

When I mean describe I mean can you tell us simply about the process, the parts & all pieces you used on your knife especially the screws?

Like what handle material was used how thick that material was ( the fastener length is determined by handle thickness right? ) which /what fasteners you used to hold those handles on which holes the fasteners went thru & used maybe some close - up photos of that knife especially the handles & when you describe the handle hardware please do it in layman's terms so we can go out & find the same handle hardware ourselves, many of us are unable to do this & the ones that can seem a little baffled by this as well.

I am not a knife maker or a handle maker but I would like to try & I would like to have a set of handles I can reuse on future mules.

Before you start talking about changing the hole sizes etc could you please just share with us what you did to your mule because it seems like if you did it maybe it can be repeated but you have the info?

Can I buy the same kind of screws you used on your knife anywhere can I find them locally or will I have to order them from a knife supplier on the internet is what I am wondering & you can clear that up.

These photos are the knife I am talking about.


http://i95.photobucket.com/albums/l158/georgemaggos/Misc%20Stuff/DSCN1286.jpg




http://i95.photobucket.com/albums/l158/georgemaggos/Misc%20Stuff/DSCN1287.jpg




http://i95.photobucket.com/albums/l158/georgemaggos/Misc%20Stuff/DSCN1287a.jpg




http://i95.photobucket.com/albums/l158/georgemaggos/Misc%20Stuff/DSCN1286a.jpg




http://i95.photobucket.com/albums/l158/georgemaggos/Misc%20Stuff/DSCN1300.jpg

Thank you in advance for your time & understanding I appreciate it.

~George

[bh49]

http://img143.imageshack.us/img143/3584/mule11ji7.jpg

http://img237.imageshack.us/img237/5331/mule12xk6.jpg

potterma,
Outstanding job, beautiful knife, very impressive.

[Spyderwings]

Wow, potterma, those scales are BEAUTIFUL. Is that red/black G-10?

Also, I haven't yet bought a Mule, but would be very inclined to do so if the holes were made to a more standard size (3/16 sounds good).

[D-Roc]

I just bought a Mule- but now I have to find something to do with it.:o Are there makers out there (or on this board) that will be able to make or already have handle and sheath options to sell to others?

[potterma]

Thanks for all the comments... Yes, that is red/black G10 :)

Sal, thanks for being understanding on the hole size.... :)

As for the 0.164" being a common size, the only thing I've been able to find off the shelf is a #8-32 screw (0.164" is the nominal major diameter of the thread). I didn't go that way with this one because I wanted a balanced look with the hardware from side to side. I could have used a #8 screw with a Pem nut on the back side, or maybe find #8 binder posts and shorten them a bit.
Couldn't find anything for pins that would be a nice fit. Mosaic pins would look nice :)

[Brad S.]

Potterma,

First off, Nice scales those look great. As you know, I am a big fan of the Anso style texture (I dont kno if he was the first to use it, he is just the one I know that uses it alot). Thats a great looking knife.


Secondly, I am with that I would love a 3/16 size hole.

[SeanH]

Question:
Are the holes currently sized for the pin stock that most knife makers use for their handles that are epoxied?

The reason I ask is, if the holes are resized to make it easier to find hardware to attach scales temporarily, will that make it difficult to find pin stock for those that want to pin and epoxy the scales permanently?

[Brad S.]

Nice job.

No problem changing hole sizes to 3/16. Let's see how many also want the change.

sal


Sal,

As a guys that making handles for others and selling kits and such. A 3/16, or 1/8 hole would make my life much eaiser, and allow me to lower the price. It means I wont have to make custom sleeves like this http://spyderco.com/forums/showthread.php?t=31510
These just take to much time to be cost effective. Any chance you will sell the hardware we need for these current mules?

Thanks

Brad

[Brad S.]

Question:
Are the holes currently sized for the pin stock that most knife makers use for their handles that are epoxied?

The reason I ask is, if the holes are resized to make it easier to find hardware to attach scales temporarily, will that make it difficult to find pin stock for those that want to pin and epoxy the scales permanently?

Most knife makers make their own pin stock, or in other words buy a length of SS, brass, etc... bar and then cut it to length. 3/16 or 1/8 is a quite easy to find in bar stock.

[GeorgeMaggos]

Sal,

can you share with us what hardware was used on your completed mule team knife? What kind of screws were used & did they go all the way thru the handle into a nut or a liner or?

~George

[butch]

im for 3/16 also as i can order folder pivots and screw sets from any knife making supply house in that size. also most any hardware store will have at the least a few 3/66 lengths of rod stock (brass) and the local welding shop has stainless for non swappable scales

oo and mosaic pin stock comes in 3/16 but also a few other sizes

the change in hole size would save me much work and tooling to open the holes with my carbide end mills

[dpsmith]

I would like to thank Sal and crew for putting this whole project together. I got 2 mules 1 to use and 1 to put away. I love flat ground blades and the shape of the mule is like a fixed blade Lil' Temp. I couldn't resist using the mule even handless and used it to cut up veggies for dinner. It slices and dices very well. Will be the perfect camp knife.

I plan on making g10 scales that are removable. To those that have machined the small holes out to 3/16 how difficult is this? I plan to use a carbide end mill on an old Bridgeport. I have machined VG10 to make a waved delica with a carbide end mill. :D Sal I would prefer the holes to be 3/16" standard size on the next batch. Does anyone have a good source for the layered black and green G10. Thanks

[HaroldB]

Having the size/details and where found would be a GREAT help to those of us who are not experts at knife/handle making :D

Thanks to all who help :)

[sal]

We've redrawn the model with the holes enlarged to 3/16. It should work ok.

sal

[Brad S.]

We've redrawn the model with the holes enlarged to 3/16. It should work ok.

sal

Thanks Sal. :)

[araneae]

Thanks for listening to our feedback. That should make it easier on us- much appreciated.

[butch]

thanks for the redo

now i just have to order 3/16 folder pivots by the 100 :)

[potterma]

We've redrawn the model with the holes enlarged to 3/16. It should work ok.

sal

Wahoooo :) You ROCK, Sal! :cool:

Couple of good places to look for handle material and hardware:

www.mcmaster.com
www.masecraftsupply.com
www.texasknife.com

Don't forget that respirator when working those handle materials!

[Brad S.]

Don't forget that respirator when working those handle materials!

Just want to make sure you all see this. Its important when working with these handle materials. It can seriously screw with your lungs!!!!!

[JacksonKnives]

Wahoooo :) You ROCK, Sal! :cool:

Couple of good places to look for handle material and hardware:

www.mcmaster.com
www.masecraftsupply.com
www.texasknife.com

Don't forget that respirator when working those handle materials!

I've had lots of luck with Tracy Mickley at USA knife maker supply. (http://usaknifemaker.com/store/index.php?main_page=index&cPath=30&zenid=7be6ad61ea11cf13b30fadea4b280904/) Good prices on pivot pins.

[CWO]

I confess that I am puzzled that this thread died kind of quietly without anyone finding a reasonably off-the-shelf solution to scale attachment. Has anyone found a method to attach scales (not permanently) without inventing custom hardware (as Tricod had to do)?

How hard is drilling out the holes on a drill press with a carbide bit? Not everyone has a machine shop as thir disposal.

I don't understand what Spyderco had in mind for customer scale attachment. While it is our task to do - I have to believe that the knife wasn't released requiring a machine shop/fabrication to affix scales.

If someone has stumbled across a simple solution - I'm very, very interested.

Thanks!

CWO

[butch]

the first run will be the only tricky one as sal changed the hole sizing to 3/16
if you want then you can get loveless bolts or corbys many kinds of pinstock to peen int6o the holes or even mosaic pins

the fun part is you can also buy folder pivots in the 3/16 size and have a take down handle set perhaps i ll have to have a step by step picture show

[sal]

I had heard that Scott at Scott's sheaths (scgere@aol,com) was going to stock the smaller pivots, but I have not had confirmation.

sal

[GeorgeMaggos]

I had heard that Scott at Scott's sheaths (scgere@aol,com) was going to stock the smaller pivots, but I have not had confirmation.
sal


Sal,

thanks for your :spyder: help.

~George

[hiredgun]

A little off topic--but related...

Okay knifemakers, I don't have a Mule yet, but when I get one in the future, what size (dimensions LxW) slabs of material would I need for handles? Thanks.

[Scott Gere]

I do have the small pivots available.

Scott, scgere@aol.com

[WinstonWolf]

The brass rods from a SharpMaker work perfectly as shown here:

Picture Thread for the Mule (http://spyderco.com/forums/showthread.php?t=31531&page=3)

WW

[CWO]

WW: Thanks. Pls see my note to you in that thread.

CWO

[The Deacon]

I confess that I am puzzled that this thread died kind of quietly without anyone finding a reasonably off-the-shelf solution to scale attachment. Has anyone found a method to attach scales (not permanently) without inventing custom hardware (as Tricod had to do)?

How hard is drilling out the holes on a drill press with a carbide bit? Not everyone has a machine shop as thir disposal.

I don't understand what Spyderco had in mind for customer scale attachment. While it is our task to do - I have to believe that the knife wasn't released requiring a machine shop/fabrication to affix scales.

If someone has stumbled across a simple solution - I'm very, very interested.

Thanks!

CWOSal's far too much of a gentleman to say it, so I will.

Thank you for demonstrating so eloquently that no act of kindness goes unpunished. :rolleyes: I doubt there's another company that would have given even a moment's consideration to a project like the Mule Team. While it is outside my personal field of interest, I think it was an incredibly selfless thing for Sal to do, and am absolutely amazed at how much more some folks seem to think they were entitled to.

As for your last question - ever hear of epoxy?

[jeroboam]

Sal's far too much of a gentleman to say it, so I will.

Thank you for demonstrating so eloquently that no act of kindness goes unpunished. :rolleyes: I doubt there's another company that would have given even a moment's consideration to a project like the Mule Team. While it is outside my personal field of interest, I think it was an incredibly selfless thing for Sal to do, and am absolutely amazed at how much more some folks seem to think they were entitled to.

As for your last question - ever hear of epoxy?

Well said sir!
:)
J

[CWO]

Sal's far too much of a gentleman to say it, so I will.

Thank you for demonstrating so eloquently that no act of kindness goes unpunished. :rolleyes: I doubt there's another company that would have given even a moment's consideration to a project like the Mule Team. While it is outside my personal field of interest, I think it was an incredibly selfless thing for Sal to do, and am absolutely amazed at how much more some folks seem to think they were entitled to.

As for your last question - ever hear of epoxy?

I've heard of epoxy - thanks. I don't choose to use it on this nice knife - thanks. So before you launch off as the designated forum arse may I respectfully suggest that you climb off your high horse and re-read my post. In no place did I say that the knife wasn't a fine one. Period. In no place did I suggest that Spyderco did a bad thing in releasing it. Period. I never said that I was "entitled" to anything. In no post on this board have i EVER made negative remarks against Spyderco as a firm or their products. None. Period. So get off my back. I don't need your negative interpretations of my post - so don't try spinning it to fit your agenda.

I was simply asking for help to understand how to fasten scales to this knife -thats it. I don't need your holier-than-thou sarcasm - so stow it. I just wanted to know if anyone has found a off-the-shelf hardware solution to attach scales. If it were any of your business (and it isn't) my post ASSUMES that Spyderco knows of some way to do this attachment with pins or screws. I DON'T believe that the mounting holes are radom/not thought through. I know Tricod is working on it and there are hints that others are too. I just want information. So you can take your sarcasm and your haughty attitude and just find someone else to attack on this board.

And for the record since you chose to publicly stir the pot and inflame - I DON'T believe that there is anything wrong with the knife - I think we just haven't figured out how to work with it.

In case you haven't noticed - no-one (in any thread that I am aware of) has come forward with an off-the-shelf, simple approach. I believe that many people will benefit from this information - not just me.

If anyone knows of a hardware solution to fasten scales to the Mule Team knife, I would be most sincerely appreciative of that information.


Respectfully,

CWO

[Slick]

Everybody take a chill pill here. The mule project is a cooperative venture between Spyderco and its loyal knife nuts. We get the steel to try out and Sal gets our feedback on the various steels.

It was clearly an oversight the first mule came with odd hole dimentions. Those holes would not be a problem for Spyderco but didn't work out for us.

That Sal has been able to resize the holes for the next mule should be good enough.

Everybody just stop.

[sal]

I undertand that Scott Gere (scgere@AOL.com) has fasteners for the current holes in the current mules.

On the next run, we will use 3/16" holes in place of the 5/32" holes.

Thanx much for your patience and kind understanding.

sal

[jaislandboy]

just an fyi for others:
I contacted Scott Gere and he has kydex sheaths available for the Mule(s)... ;)

[CWO]

I undertand that Scott Gere (scgere@AOL.com) has fasteners for the current holes in the current mules.

On the next run, we will use 3/16" holes in place of the 5/32" holes.

Thanx much for your patience and kind understanding.

sal


Thanks Sal - just the info that I needed!

Regards,
CWO