Off-Topic:Glock vs Beretta

[earthworm]

I'm srtongly considering going to a hi-cap 9mm as my primary carry gun(yes I'm legal) & have narrowed it down the the Glock 19 or one of the Beretta 92 variants.I've shot both & shoot both equally well.I like the ligher weight of the Glock but factory mags are like hen's teeth.I like the manual safety of the Baretta(in case of a disarm),mags are somewhat easier to find(just cost an arm & a leg!)but the weight kinda puts me off.I've friends who carry both & each swears his the only way to go(I kinda feel that way about my Bodyguard:I just want more ammo).?Opinions?

[Mr.Skin]

Hey Earthworm,
I'm on the Glock side of the fence. I like the weight & easy clearing. I took the Glock armory class, so I know how to take one, all the down to it 36 pieces. It can be done very fast. If your getting pre-band mags make should you get the drop free ones. The early hi-caps won't drop out(by design). Think of going with the Glock 22, the hi-cap 40cal mags might be easier to find. I think 40cal is a better round. And to bring this back to MBC <img src="wink.gif" width=15 height=15 align=middle> What knife are you carrying as a back up?

Gavin

PS Happy New Year to all


...from whose bourn, no traveler returns.

Edited by - Mr.Skin on 12/31/2001 1:12:52 PM

[earthworm]

I can get a Heritage Arms Stealth .40 for $200.10 rd mags,trigger much like a Glock,frame-mounted safety,compact & light.My bitchs with it are no hi-caps & it's not a common gun(this latter might be an advantage).OTOH it IS a .40,would double available rounds & have that fast reload.Hummmm...I might have just talked myself into it.Apprecieate your thought Gavin:Happy New Year.Oh:EDC knife is a Delica;a Merlin @ times.

[Girevik]

I would go with the Glock. I have carried both guns for years and to me the Glock seems better suited for use under stress. The Beretta is a fine gun and you will not find one made better. The block design of the Glock is easier to manipulate under stress and under less than perfect condition, wet or bloody hands, etc. Either gun will do just fine if you train with it. Just one mans opinion.

[sks]

Our department issues the Beretta, but off duty, most use Glocks.

I love glocks, but I wish the .45 (G21) fit my hand better.

Steve

[earthworm]

SKS:That says a lot.Knowwhatcha mean about the 21:I've a big hand & it feels like I'm holding a 2X4.
savage11:Good Points!
All Glock shooters:?How sensitive are both to limp-wristing?

[YoungCutter]

Glocks.
Lighter Weight,
Thinner,
Cheaper,
More Accurate,
Much More Capable of Taking Abuse,
Rust Proof,
More Reliable
and higher capacity for their size (e.g. 15rds for your G19, and it's smaller than your 15rd Beretta 92)
I went through this a while back - because for all it's faults Berettas do have a coolness factor, but when I added it all up, Glock one by a ton.
Hope this helps

I lubba da Spydies :)

[Brian]

I love stuff like this, I'm a Beretta guy myself. I've handled Glock and like it, but I have rather large hands, and I found that the Beretta 92f the most comfortable, but YoungCutter has a valid point, the Glock will probably easier to have in hand in a situation requiring that kind of force.
How did you know all that stuff???

"Give and take, if you give me a Spydie, I will gladly take it."

[Jeff/1911]

Glock - hands down.

Jeff/1911.

[sks]

In my experience the Berettas are just as reliable as the Glock, and are less prone to "limp wristing".

I have also had three Berettas break on the firing line during competition. (High volume guns, but it still shouldn't happen)

The "Elite" berettas are pretty sweet, but I still have a tough time going against the Glock.

Steve

[Hoosierdaddy]

I just recently bought a Beretta 96FS Centurian, and it's an awesome weapon! I think you should go 40 S.&W., 9mm is a little weak for starters. 40 has a 94% to 96% one stop shot capability on the Fuller Index, versus 90% to 92% for the 9mm, some people think that's not important, I disagree!! I would not waste my money on a 9mm gun PERIOD. It is a weak caliber! My 40 shoots very well, and fits my hands great. I bought a Hogue monogrip and the fit is tremendous! I have not handled many Glocks and don't feel confident on commenting on them. I have owned a 9mm 92FS and sold it when the 40 came out, the Beretta is quite accurate and would not let you down. Take down and cleaning is very simple. Beretta has been making firearms for well over 400 years, I think they will be around for a bit longer. Glocks aren't bad, it's just Berettas are better!
I repeat, don't waste you're money on a 9mm get a REAL caliber.
BTW... For EDC I would choose my Python over a pistol, for the fact that they don't "experience" cycling failures like semi-auto pistols do! It doesn't matter how many rounds you have if the first one jams and you're in a life and death matter you're DONE! Also the Python is chambered for 357 Magnum, THE best handgun caliber known to man.
96% on the Fuller Index!!! (125 grain JHP)
My two cents!!!

[seth]

earthworm,
I picked up on your Bodyguard as being your favorite piece. There are reasons why this J frame is your EDC.

Is it size? Weight? Confidense instilling?

Important questions; because your options of G-19 or '92 varients are very different from your fave.

Many concealled EDC handgun bearers have an ideal gun in mind, but after four seasons of toting, reality creeps back to the smaller, lighter guns.

Mind you in my area, the hot summers can be brutal, perhaps your seasons are mild. So conceal comfort equates to actually going out the door with the handgun. And, since the frist rule of a gunfight is... to have a gun; comfort means consistant EDC.

I'm certain some folk have success packing a large frame '92 in concealment; however, I believe they have to adapt their daily wear and habits more so than small/light gun wearers.

Between your two choices, I'd go with the G-19.

One question I have regards the trigger of your two options; they're very different. Have you had much real firing time on the Glock? If so, Do you have confidense to hit well and handle safely?

Often, when speaking of quality semi-autos, it's not some much the make and model, as it's the very specfics needs and ability of the shooter.

The quality handgun that provides confidense in use and carry, with the comfort level for four season concealed EDC, will be different for every user.

As to caliber and number of rounds -- minor issues when compared to timely consistent frist round hits. Whatever handgun can provide a quick, safe, reliable, draw-stroke to-frist-round critical target penetrating hit is the right handgun to have when you need it to do just that.

Good Luck,
Seth

[earthworm]

Hoosierdaddy:The selling point of the 9 is the availabilty of h-cap mags & my knowledge of the recoil & accuracy.My ex had a Beretta Brigader & shot consistant 15 rd. 4" groups @ 10 yards.I agree the numbers favor the .40.Interesting to note that 2 survivors of the FBI Miami massacre went 2 different ways:one to .40 for power;the other to 9mm for hi-cap.I've advocated the mid-frame.357 for years(L-frame S&W,Ruger SP's,even the Taurus)as the best all-around handgun.I can get one of the new S&W.357 Scandium 7-shooters for about $600 & it DO invade my thoughts.(2"L-frame that weighs less empty than my Airweight Bodyguard.?Think a full-house.357'd bite @ both ends?*G*)
Seth:Excellnt Points!& why I've been playing with this decision for a number of years:usually when I get the hots for an auto I go to the range,pull my Bodyguard from my pocket & put 5 rounds into a standard size paper plate @ 7 yards.Then I stick that J-frame back into my pocket & think"What would I gain?".Here in middle Tennessee the summers hit the 90's & that little Smith hides VERY well.OTOH fanny packs are very popular & almost"invisible" which allows me to pack a more potent piece.I chose my Airweight Bodyguard originally for it's size,weight,caliber & shrouded hammer.My reasons for even considering the upgrade are a rise in home invasions & multiple-assailant muggings & carjackings causing me to wonder if 5 rounds of .38 are enough.I agree:first-shot placement is the key.I've shot botautos & revolvers for over 20 years & am competent with both.I just don't like to carry cocked'n'locked(yes I know) or I'd go with an aluminum-frame Commander.45.I agree:that Beretta is a hoss to pack.The Heritage Stealth.40 I mention earlier seems like the best compromise & one HUGE advantage is I can buy it without having to sell my Smith.The Stealth feels good in the hand,is compact,10rds.of.40,,,I just haven't shot one or heard how they hold up(the gun rags give them a thumbs-up,but the only gun rag that I've seen pan any gun was Phil Engledrum's"Handgun Tests"[not the one on the market now]& 'American Refleman's test of the Remington Viper.22).I can't afford a Para Ordance(sp).45(Boy that LDA trigger is sweet!).
Lots to consider on this issue.You'd think that I,who've taught firearms safety & self-defense courses would know better.WEll,times & situations change & I've never been too proud to say"I wuz wrong" or ask for help & advise.Thanks for all input.Please don't close the thread:things are just getting interesting*G*!

[Girevik]

Somthing else you mat want to consider is the ability of the Beretta frame and slide to handle to abuse of the .40 s&w round. I did some research a couple of years ago and found that a number of police departments were having catostrophic slide and frame failures with Beretta .40 pistols. Ohio State Police, York Provincial Police (Canada) and another PD in western Canada, I dont recall where. The guns were failing anywhere from 3000-10000 rounds. I have personally seen Beretta .40 pistols with huge gouges in the rails causing the slide to stick. I think some of the polymer framed pistols will fair a little better due to frame flex.

[Girevik]

Somthing else you mat want to consider is the ability of the Beretta frame and slide to handle to abuse of the .40 s&w round. I did some research a couple of years ago and found that a number of police departments were having catostrophic slide and frame failures with Beretta .40 pistols. Ohio State Police, York Provincial Police (Canada) and another PD in western Canada, I dont recall where. The guns were failing anywhere from 3000-10000 rounds. I have personally seen Beretta .40 pistols with huge gouges in the rails causing the slide to stick. I think some of the polymer framed pistols will fair a little better due to frame flex.

[seaman]

i will make it short and sweet.i got myself a glock (17) for one reason ... reliability. i do have one problem with it, i would like to change it to a G-30 45 cal. good luck .

[Lsaulog]

One word:

Glock

"Hope for the best. Be prepared for the worst. You'll never be disappointed."

[Hoosierdaddy]

Earthworm,

I haven't heard much about the Stealth model for 200.00 you talk about, but remember you get what you pay for! How much is your life and loved ones lives worth? Most quality guns are five to six hundred new. You sound proficeint enough with your revolvers. How many assailents are you expecting? What scenarios you might encounter can be a major factor in determining the final decision! For home defense get a good Shotgun! That will stop most anyone and his friends, and eliminate taking out your neigbhors. I do think caliber is very important! I would rather have less rounds than a weak caliber. Having less rounds will make you train better. A hundred different scenarios could play out in many situations, you need to realize you may never be prepared for every situation!
As highly as I praise Berettas, they did have some problems with the M9 (92F) in the area of slide failures. Enough so that the Navy seals went to the Sig 226 or 228 some years ago. Glock experienced a "non recall" on 500,000 pistols, so they too have had their problems. I don't think too highly of Smith & Wesson or ruger, mainly because they both sold out!!! The model 66 S&W had problems with the gas ring causing the cylinder to bind, they fixed that a while back. What I'm getting at is you can have failures with many different guns, hopefully you won't have a failure when you need it most! My Python is an early model (read better quality and materials) and I've put a hell of a lot of brass through it, it has never had a problem related to the gun itself! I don't think it will never fail me, but hope it won't at a critical time.
45s get rather large when you double stack them, they have a similar stopping power to 40 S&W. 45 mags are heavy with h/cap. I guess we could go back and forth all day.
In closing, don't be afraid to spend a little money on a good firearm. Your life may depend on it. Whatever you get shoot the hell out of it, get comfortable with it and learn to depend on it.
BTW... Don't always believe what the gun mags. write about, some are quite biased based on who's spending the most for advertising!
I hope I didn't open a can of worms for you, good luck and keep us posted.

[gadfly]

I would like to recommend that you move up to atleast the .40 caliber.

I was an observer when an individual tried to run someone down in his car while running a locked gate.

One of the security types responded by shooting at one of the tires on the car. I actually saw the tire dimple in as the bullet hit it, but the perpetrator got away (after crashing through the gate. The tire remained intact.

I talked to the security guy and found out that he was shooting a 9 mm (a S&W 59, the same gun as mine). This really bummed me out, and really left me cold on the minimal power of the 9 mm.

As a result, I promptly went out and bought a Glock .40 Caliber - model 23.

While the Glock is clearly not a target piece, I find it's fine for everyday carry. I also enjoy shooting the Glock.

As long as you keep your finger off the trigger, it's quite safe. Since there is a safety on the trigger, you had best have control of your finger once it's on the trigger.

I believe the Beretta is a better made piece with lots more options for customizing.

The main point of my response is to strongly suggest that you go to a higher caliber. I found that the .40 is better than the 9 mm, but not as hard on the ears and wrist as the .45 caliber.

One way or the other, you pay for your tools!

[Hoosierdaddy]

Gadfly,

I don't know if you're aware that the model 39&59 Smith had a real bad problem with "erratic quality control". Massad Ayoob writes "the basic design is sound, that many guns were excellent, and that a reliable example was a fine police sidearm". He goes on to say "many officers had been demoralized by several incidents in which the auto went off when dropped...and by jamming on the practice range." "Even with the bugs worked out, there were jamming problems...the only police gun that exceeds [the 39/59 models] record of rejection-after-adoption is the .41 Magnum."
The July/Aug 1978 Handgunner magazine has the whole story.
I know you shouldn't be "dropping" any gun period but you may want to look into this further. Find out before it's too late!
I also agree whole-heartedly on a bigger caliber than 9mm!

[earthworm]

I first heard of the Stealth when a gunsmith buddy of mine showed me one & spoke well of it.Later 'Combat Handguns' had an article on gas-locked handguns & compared the Steath quite favorably to the H&K P7(!!).Hoosierdaddy I agree:you get what you pay for,but the best equipment in the world is useless to you if you can't get it.Hence my comments on cost.Raven.25's,Lorcen.32's & Schrade knives from WallyWorld have their place.I most certainly advocate purchasing the best available,but see no reason to buy a $74,000 Merceedes SUV when a $25,000 Chevy will do the same job.gadfly:Interesting post.
FYI the M-59 S&W was the cause for Phil Engledrum's 'Handgun Tests'&'Pistolero'magazines:he claimed to have bought one & it jammed like crazy while a $75 Raven.25 went'Bang!'each time he pulled the trigger.What killed the .41 Mag was that most people used the huntig load that was right up there with the .44 Mag instead of the much lighter police load in the .44 Special class.The March 2001'Combat Handguns'has an article on the Taurus.41 in titanium(& if you're not reading CH you should,if nothing else for Massad Ayoob's"Self-Defense & the Law"column).I must admit when I started this thread my preferance was for the Glock:this has not changed altho I refer y'all to my earlier post about my ex-wife's Baretta Brigader(ya can't argue with a fact*G*).Again I apprecieate the feedback & manners all respondants have made in this thread:much food for thought!

[Hoosierdaddy]

Earthworm,

Not to continue the arguement but come on... you can't begin to compare a Chevy SUV to a Mercedes! Sure they may look similar but the real difference is the protection they provide. Just like a weapon... Mercedes pioneered airbags, and their chassis developement is second to none. If you were in an accident (rollover type) with your family in the Chevy versus the Mercedes I would hope you would choose the latter! I've worked on a few Mercedes and ten years ago I was amazed at the strenght of their cars! For the most part if you never got in an accident the Chevy would be sufficeint... although buying the Mercedes would give you protection AND piece of mind if in the event of an accident! The same with a firearm, I'm not familiar with the Stealth and won't comment on it. I was just saying be weary, and choose a good firearm! Sorry to get off topic and ramble on.

Gadfly,

I was not trying to "trash talk" your 59, it's just a lot of people don't know of the 39/59 problems. That's why S&W went to second gen. 439/459 639/659 series... if it was a good design they would have stuck with it. Which makes you wonder why they went to 3rd gen. I just don't want you to rely on that thing at a crucial moment!
You have to remember Gun mags. will often praise something even if it's not good... for their best interest $$$! When a Gun mag. writes negative feedback claiming the gun is a pile of *#@% rest assured they don't want to get sued up the wazoo, as Gun companies have more lawyers and money to go after relatively small time publishers.

[earthworm]

HoosierDaddy;I think you missed my point.No doubt the Merceedes is superior to the Chevy but if you can't afford it it's useless to you.Same with guns:the $100 Raven in your pocket beats the $850 Para Ord.you gaze longing at at the gun shop.Damn right I'd rather have the Para!But if all I can afford is the Raven should I sneer @ it & go naked?
Balance in all things:cost,quality,etc.
My gunsmith friend has the Steath & a Beretta 92:I await his prices.A new Glock 19 is $570.Cheapest used factory hi-caps I've found is $99(which I'm willing to pay).The same frame Glock in .40 is comparable in price:?anyone seen hi-caps for it?Or for the 21 in .45? BTW michael frank:a buddy of mine who's a deputy sheriff & Glock armorer says while the 30 will take the 21 mags the 30 uses a double recoil spring & the slide is so fast it can jam with the hi-cap mag unless the mag spring is strong.Calling GlockDoc!Opinion,please.

[Hoosierdaddy]

Earthworm,

You weren't real clear on your point, you said "I most certainly advocate purchasing the best available,but see no reason to buy a $74,000 Merceedes SUV when a $25,000 Chevy will do the same job". You didn't say you couldn't afford the Mercedes only the Chevy would do the same job, that is were I disagree. The guns from Raven, Lorcen, Bryco, Phoenix (Psesco),and Jennings I would not classify as weapons. They are cheap and problematic (both in cycling reliability and breakage!) pistols that would inflict more harm by throwing rather than shooting them. The P7 H&K I doubt is in the same category as the Stealth! (Eclipse- Zach where are you) I'm not trying to be mean or argumentative... you asked for opinions and here we (all forumites) are.
The .45 is a very old Caliber (not that it's not good) it has the same stopping power as the .40 but with heavier grain bullets and larger cases. That is why I think .40 is the best Pistol Caliber.
The U.S. Military would probably go .40 but it's not a "N.A.T.O." Caliber, everything is already chambered for the 9mm with more options on guns ie H&K 94 (MP5)

[Bill Burns]

Go with the Glock. I am a LEO and I have three of them, the 22 (issue) a 23 (personal and duty weapon for about 5+ years) and a 27 that is my current carry weapon (I'm a detective). Carried a .40 cal Browning Hi-Power for a short time, good gun, but hammer bite was a problem and I couldn't keep a front night sight on it. 40 cal is definitely the way to go....only a minor loss in mag capacity and a ballistically better round.

[RobertC]

Hi there earthworm
In my humble opinion I would most definatley go for the Glock (Glock 19) the subcompact version might be a good choice. I currently carry the Glock 23 which is exactly the same dimensions as the Glock 19 except that it is a .40 S&W caliber. You might even want to consider going for a .40 as opposed to a 9mm - It is an excellent self defense round !!!

RobertC

[Mancer]

Ok my 2 cents worth <img src="smile.gif" width=15 height=15 align=middle>
Mr MaNcEr thinks highly of berettas, but..........as far as guns go, I reckon Glock is what Spyderco is to the knife world.
They light, so damn reliable its scary.
beutiful guns, Im getting (hoping) for my gun license to go through soon, will be getting myself the Glock 21 (.45)
Only bad thing is the bullets I love (Winchestor Black Talon) have been discontinued Ive read, yeah I wanna cry <img src="sad.gif" width=15 height=15 align=middle>
Why stop production of such a awsome round I cannot understand, infact are there any of you guys who know why production was stopped?

Well yeah, as I said, go for the glock, the mags may not be easy to come across in your part of the world, but remember, when you need that piece, the glock WILL NOT let you down, just like my spyderco's <img src="smile.gif" width=15 height=15 align=middle>

Good luck

MaNcEr

It's Time To Kick @$$ 'N Chew Bubble Gum

[earthworm]

MaNcEr:The Black Talon was replaced by the Golden Saber.Marshall rates the Federal 230 Hydra-Shok #1,the the Remington 185 Golden Saber #2 with the 230 Golden Saber #5(GunWorld,March 2001).I tend to test my carry loads &amp; prefer accuracy over horsepower(&amp; if I do go auto add reliability of function to that).I'm hearing(&amp; not just here)that the .40 is more accurate than the 9;assuming equal guns &amp; the shooter does his part.?Feedback?

[aero_student]

In the latest Guns and Ammo they reviewed the springfield XD. It was a pretty good performer and the only jam they had was on an abused case from a range reload round. They had 9mm, .357, and .40 How do the recoil and price of the .40 compare to the .45, my dad is stuck on his m1911.

[GSX-MAN]

Ik dislike Glock. Can't handle them, although I tried many times. I need a heavyweight gun, so it would be a Beretta 92 stainless.
I own a Smith &amp; Wesson 5906, a 9mm with a 15-round clip. Heavy, accurate and compact.

[wayfarer]

My $.02?
I too live in the deep south. I own an airweight bodyguard and a Kahr MK9 Elite 98 for summer and deep carry. The Kahr usually gets the nod for EDC: more rounds on tap, faster reload (always an extra mag on my off side) and it's incredibly comfortable and accurate.

Face it, you're not going to be able to hide either of your first choices under a t-shirt, but the Kahr will with the right carry rig. You might also look at their new poly frame models; they're lighter and only a little larger than the MK.

As an aside, the Beretta high cap magazines are interchangable between the 9mm and the .40.

stay safe

Edited by - wayfarer on 1/22/2002 3:59:49 PM

[wayfarer]

Edited by - wayfarer on 1/23/2002 8:48:34 AM

[judge]

Glock, because they&#180;re Austrian (which I am too), I got trained on them, and they offer that cute micro Glock in .45. But very biased and subjective, my opinion. <img src="wink.gif" width=15 height=15 align=middle>

[Hoosierdaddy]

Wayfarer,

I believe the Beretta 92 and 96 have interchangeable slides. I know the mags are the same dimensions. I thought a few years back Beretta offered a pistol with both slides and mags. 9mm and .40 that would give you the best of both worlds, 9mm for affordability and .40 for effective stopping power. I ran across a Ram Line 18 rd. mag. for the 92, this would be 18+1 for 19 total. Not to bad but it's still only 9mm.

The guy I purchased my 96 from gave me 2 twenty round boxes of Black Talons, I'll save those for a rainy day.

[GlockDoc]

earthworm,
Sorry I took so long to get to you, been up to my rump in alligators.

The nine is fine. I met a coupla West German Police officers over here on vacation a few years ago. One of them had been hospitalized with multiple stab wounds recieved during an altercation with some really bad people. He was already down before he could get to his side arm (Walther P5, in a full flap holster!) Two shots with Hertenberger 100gr FMJ and he had two dead bodies on top of him. The rest fled before backup arrived. The man, not the round, makes the difference.

Also, the only guns I have ever broken were the Colt Python (firing pin) and the Beretta (trigger spring).

My 1989 G17 is still going strong after an untold number of rounds and even though I have plenty of parts I have never used anything but recoil springs on any of the guns I've worked on.

My $.02

GD

Edited by - GlockDoc on 1/17/2002 7:33:35 PM

Edited by - GlockDoc on 1/17/2002 7:35:06 PM

[bell]

I own and shoot Glock 19 and shoot Glock sponsored events. This is my one and only &quot;if I really have to shoot it out&quot; gun.

[earthworm]

Update:&quot;He who hesitates is lost&quot;....or at least loses his new-gun money to trifling things like hospital bills(minor emergency;no permanant damage) &amp; car repairs.*Sigh* Oh well I guess I need the kid &amp; car more than a new gun*G*.Reckon my old faithful Bodyguard'll just have keep doing its job.But the input has been most interesting &amp; valuable,to say the least:thanks all.

[GlockDoc]

earthworm,
Hope your kid is ok. I don't suppose your car is a red '57 Plymouth Fury......

...but I am arm'd, And dangers are to me indifferent.

Edited by - GlockDoc on 1/24/2002 10:06:50 PM

[earthworm]

GlockDoc:Thanks.5 stitches rt.wrist= $450+dr.fee.Car bill was tune-up($1,000 worth!).No Plymoth:'96 Fod Ranger(probably the reason for the $1,000:you know how Fords are*G*).I COULD swap/sell the Bodyguard but I have in the past &amp; ended-up buying it back(that says something,doesn't it?).

[Gallaghe]

I favor the Glock 30 but realize that it may be a bit to much for some people to get a grip on it. I also like the Glock 26 for compactness.

Kevin S. Gallagher

[GlockDoc]

earthworm, I finally got to read the whole thread and I haven't had any problems with my Glock 30 and hi-cap mags. Pick the caliber that you can control the best, be it 9mm, .40, .45, 357SIG or whatever. The caliber doesn't matter. Marksmanship is what counts. Somebody once said, hit 'em where they're biggest and do it more than once, if they think they're dead they will fall down. If they don't you have to convince them some more. If you can shoot that Bodyguard, it'll work untill you can find something else that pleases you.

GD

...but I am arm'd, And dangers are to me indifferent.

[bell]

Nice post Glock Doc,
When is Glock going to make a .22?

[GlockDoc]

I don't expect Glock to make a .22 any time soon, so I bought a Ciener .22 kit for my 17. It works as advertized. Shoots to point of aim, even though both sights are integral with the slide, which I find impressive. It needs high velocity ammo to function properly. Mine likes Remington &quot;Thunderbolt&quot;.

GD

...but I am arm'd, And dangers are to me indifferent.