Indirect Buying/Selling on the Forums

[clovisc]

I feel bad bringing this complaint up, but I feel like someone needs to step up and do it.

I've seen a disturbing increase of late in the number of "indirect" solicitations, sales, trades, etc. on the forums here. I don't want to point the finger at anyone specific... just at some behaviour which I think isn't acceptable, or fair. I've seen new and old members alike engaging in it.

We've been told this is not a place for commerce, and have been asked not to buy, sell, or trade on these forums. As far as I know, these rules still stand. There are plenty of other forums for that. Yet still, people decide to violate the rules, with posts like:

"I heard a rumour a blue lum is going to be going up on ebay soon..."

or

"Where do I find a [RARE KNIFE THAT YOU WILL OBVIOUSLY HAVE TO LOOK FOR ON EBAY AND BLADE FORUMS -- DUH]"

or "gee, I wish I could trade my X for a Y..."

Then what happens is, someone writes back "check your PM" -- clearly... a business transaction taking place.

I feel like this is really disrespectful towards Spyderco, Kristi, and those of us with the integrity to play by the rules and conduct our business elsewhere.

If you're intent on breaking the rules here, at least keep it in the PM, so we don't all have to read about your rulebreaking... this contributes to other people doing the same thing, and in the long run, to a change in atmosphere on the forums... not for the better, IMHO. :mad:

I enjoy the spyderco forums because I can read peoples' thoughts on knives without having to sort through "FOR SALE" or "NEED A _____" junk. I'm a little tired of some of these "indirect" threads that keep popping up. :( :mad:

Anyone else feel the same way?

[Spyderwings]

I'm going to have to agree with you on this one clovisc. I have been noticing it a lot lately too, and am not to keen on it. This is the reason there are dedicated forums elsewhere such as on BF or knifebst. I must admit, at first I thought it would be great if we could buy and sell here, but now I realize that it would really change the environment of this forum for the worse.

Just my thoughts.

[jaislandboy]

yep it's out of hand imho :mad:
while I would be appreciative of "free leads".....all one has to do is PM that individual (who's hunting that knife) without posting it publicly in threads....

[Th232]

Agreed. I'm personally fine with a small "looking for: xyz" in your sig line, but honestly, I feel that people are ignoring the spirit of the rule, and in some cases the letter. Heck, it even says in the rules:

• Do not post or transmit any unsolicited advertising, promotional materials, or any other forms of solicitation in Spyderco Forum. This includes the trading and selling of knives or other goods.

I thought that's what Vincent's knifeBST was for as well, some people wanted to buy, sell and trade, so he made a place where people could do it.

[clovisc]

vincent's knifeBST.com is a good place for spyderco forumites to conduct business... if they'd care to. also, bladeforums has a huge audience. most of the members here use both forums.

maybe forumites are trying to "help" one another find the hard-to-find spydies they're craving. if so, just do it in PM without telling anyone... and "help" the forum be a positive place.

[Detdaddy]

I've noticed it, too, clovisc. And I agree. The pathetic attempts at being "sneaky" are, in my opinion, a slap in the face to Sal. Thanks for stepping up. Maybe it'll cut down on it, at least for a while.

[David Lowry]

Yep, I'm with you bro.

I just recently said "I just bought my UKPK from Catamount". Hopefully this is not what you mean. He's a forumite and an authorized Spyderco Dealer so I don't feel that this is any different than mentioning New Graham or some other place.

I have seen the goofy threads that you speak off though, and I just ignore them.

[clovisc]

the other post i've seen more recently... which i sometimes suspect might be a sale in disguise -- is what i call the "antiques road show."

"hi, i just got a great deal on a [whatever disco'd spydie] -- is this knife valueable? how much is it worth?"

it's always either "worth" the MSRP, the street price, whatever you paid for it, or whatever one goes for on ebay... you decide. :rolleyes:

[Water Bug]

Concur with Clovisc as well. What I've really enjoyed about the Spyderco forums is being able to do a search for information on particular knives to learn more about them, and not get a bunch of threads popping up that talk about (or hint at) buying this or selling that to wade through. Let's keep things "solicitation free" around here.

[Tank]

I'm with ya on this Clovisc. Thanks for bringing up this thread.

[quattrokid73]

While I agree that there aught to be no B/S/T on this forum, I would like to know what you think is wrong with people asking where they can find discontinued spyderco models. Obviously, personal solicitations aught to be kept on other forums.

Thank you, Adam

[aj1985]

I really should have searched before i posted my thread. I apologize in making another thread.

I also apologize if I have given people information regarding discontinued Spyderco products which should not have been given out.

I just want to make it clear that I'm not selling on this forum and I just provide people with store location or websites where I have purchased from in the past and that have been very good.
aj

[bluemist]

The signal to noise ratio is really low over on BF but I somewhat agree.. as a wise women once told me on an old newsgroup "give it a measure". I think that goes for both sides of this argument. There are some genuine exchanges of information that will inevitably lead to transactions that I consider perfectly innocent. I guess that's not what you meant by "getting out of hand".

[aj1985]

Please disregard

[clovisc]

i'm not trying to be a jerk, or step on anyone's toes or anything... i think it's just something everyone should stay aware of. i guess bringing it up now and discussing it as a group will stop things from getting too, too out of hand.

usually, when something like this happens, i'd like to think its because:

1) it's someone new, who doesn't realize there are rules.
2) it's a forumite with an innocent question that gets interpreted the wrong way.

in either case, all it usually takes is a little note to set things right.

not too long ago, someone brought up the fact that as this community is rather 'self-moderating,' more "experienced" forumites should step in more often with gentle reminders of the rules.

we should probably be a bit more vigilant -- but still, welcoming as always -- to preserve the excellent mood of this forum!!!

signature line "looking for this and that" info -- i feel like this also changes the mood. i don't know if it's "right" or "wrong" according to the rules -- but i know i wouldn't feel comfortable doing something like that...

i guess there's a lot of room for interpretation. although, there's plenty to talk about with spydies, so... why waste time interpreting and looking for ways around the rules?????

[clovisc]

While I agree that there aught to be no B/S/T on this forum, I would like to know what you think is wrong with people asking where they can find discontinued spyderco models. Obviously, personal solicitations aught to be kept on other forums.

Thank you, Adam

i know your intent was probably not to invite someone to sell you a spydie... maybe you could understand, though, how a "where can i find this?" post may be inviting a sale? and how threads like this, in combination, add to an atmosphere of commerce, and increase or invite B/S/T posts?

i agree with you in part, and recognize that there's some grey area. but lately, i've just seen too many examples of "how can i get this???" threads turning into a business transaction.

with google, ebay, bladeforums, knifebst.com, your chances of finding a discontinued spydie are as good as anyone else's -- and about as good as they get. :)

[clovisc]

I really should have searched before i posted my thread. I apologize in making another thread.

I also apologize if I have given people information regarding discontinued Spyderco products which should not have been given out.

I just want to make it clear that I'm not selling on this forum and I just provide people with store location or websites where I have purchased from in the past and that have been very good.
aj

don't worry, aj. i think that much of the time, it's an innocent mistake. there's lots of grey area... IMHO the less people explore the grey, the better the quality of our experience here.

[quattrokid73]

Thank you for your thoughtful reply. I actually wasn't looking for a private sale. I just figured somewhere in the world there was an online store with a Lil' Temp still for sale. Should have clarified.

I agree that B/S/T can easily add a lot of negativity to a forum.

The other forum i frequent is www.runryder.com

it's an RC helicopter forum with an active "off topic" and "B/S/T" section. unfortunately, these two sections have created an unimaginable amount of animosity between forumites. although i love the forum and it's members, i don't like that aspect one bit. it's just pretty necessary to have the B/S/T in RC.

[tonydahose]

well i agree that Looking for XYZ knife threads are getting out of hand and annoying. i was a firm believer in the mini "looking for "in peoples signatures but i can see how that is skirting the bylaws of the forum so mine is gone.

[stoneman]

I personally don't see the problem with having a wishlist in anyones signature. If someone PM's someone else for anything, it's nobody's business but theirs. Last I checked it still stood for private message. As long as there aren't any outright "i will sell this " or "who wants to buy that" posts cluttering the forum, there should not be a problem. As far as those preaching against solicitation and recommending other sites (knifebst, etc.) in the same breath, aren't you soliciting for other websites? I'm all for respecting this forum and the rules applied to it I just don't think we should nit-pick or decide for ourselves to add things we think should be added. If someone at spyderco had a problem with the signature situation I'm sure it would have been addressed long ago. To me, it seems a polite way to let your fellow forumites know you are interested in a certain model or two without cluttering up the forums. If someone should send you a pm nudging you in the right direction, so be it, if not that's fine too. Politics and religion are also forbidden topics, should we round up the pitch forks and go after those who quote scripture in their signature?


We should not be hypocritical, as knife owners we're always complaining about our rights to freedom and post almost weekly about stricter knife/weapon laws and our distain for those who would encroach on our freedoms. An obvious disregard for the rules should be penalized/dealt with discreetly but do we really want to push for stricter more confining rules?

[clovisc]

Well, here's what the rules say:

Do not post or transmit any unsolicited advertising, promotional materials, or any other forms of solicitation in Spyderco Forum. This includes the trading and selling of knives or other goods.

You could "interpret" that to kingdom come, I'm sure... but why bother to explore the grey area when there are so many other forums specifically for B/S/T ?

[jujigatame]

Then what happens is, someone writes back "check your PM" -- clearly... a business transaction taking place.


This is the only part of your post I disagree with. We don't know what's being said in that message. Maybe one member is telling another "I have one for sale..." or on the other hand maybe they're saying "Check out this website, I saw one for sale there the other day...." Perhaps they're saying something else entirely. Presuming that anyone who posts "check your PM" is personally selling something is unfair. I certainly see where one may take that general impression from it, but that's all it is, a general impression as opposed to confirmed fact.

[Peter1960]

Personally I think that a small "looking for ..." in the signature line is an invitation for B/T/S - "Give him an inch and he will take a mile". Just my 0,002 €-cents :)

As from now on I ignore and will ignore all threads/post with dubious content ("Where to buy", "Best source", ...), as I'm guest of Spyderco and accept their rules.

[tonydahose]

This is the only part of your post I disagree with. We don't know what's being said in that message. Maybe one member is telling another "I have one for sale..." or on the other hand maybe they're saying "Check out this website, I saw one for sale there the other day...." Perhaps they're saying something else entirely. Presuming that anyone who posts "check your PM" is personally selling something is unfair. I certainly see where one may take that general impression from it, but that's all it is, a general impression as opposed to confirmed fact.
agreed...i have posted a ton of "check your pm box" and past on info as to which web sites still have something in stock and alot of guys on the boards can attest to that.

[Zenith]

Some valid points raised clovisc

[enyong112]

It is sad that it had to come to this... can you guys remember the time when a forumite was so desperate of a getting a knife (Holy Grail Knife) and you pointed them to the right way... the satisfaction you have given them and to yourself... because you know how it feels like finally get a knife that you've hunted for months... We all know some are "sneaky" in a sense that they're turning the forum into BST, but we also know that a fellow forumite is just trying to get a hit on his addiction... I can remeber how I felt when I was looking for a Yo and somebody (I can still remember who and I'm very thankful) pointed me to the right direction... the excitement I felt when I found it and the satisfaction I had when somebody else was looking for one and pointed him there... Regarding this topic it is really hard to make judgements...

[clovisc]

okay, but there are enough users here that if everyone posted "how can i find a _______" every time they were looking for a "grail," or a discontinued spydie... it would be hard to find any info worth reading.

and i am still pretty convinced that even though most of us play by the rules, with these sorts of posts, some people ARE indirectly inviting B/S/T.

the "looking for:" in the signature line thing... i haven't started seeing that until a few months ago. i'm not going to say who the first to do it was. but since then, it's gone unchecked... and now its use is pretty widespread.

we can split hairs, sure, but i just don't understand why anyone would explore the grey area when there are plenty of other, highly-trafficked places to B/S/T.

[ozspyder]

I feel I have to also add my comments as I have a sigline that has my hunting list :). Whilst I have only been collecting and using Spydercos for the last year or so, I would have to say that I have been pursuing to add or expand my collection of EDC knives and ones that I like with some passion. Many members here have helped me out by contacting me via PM or email as they started to know me on the forums through my meagre contributions.

I cannot remember if I have posted a "WHere can I find a ******?" thread. I don't think I have. As pointed out in all the relevant posts above, there are certain rules that have to be obeyed because this is an open house of Sal's and we are invitees.

I didn't think that the siglines thing was an issue and I previously had Spydies I owned siglines, and then links, then Spydies I want siglines. I did it becaue I saw a few members with siglines as such and assumed it was OK to do so. If it is a problem I shall remove it without hesitation and replace it with a picture of my favourite Spydie of the Day (How do you do that in the sigline ??? someone?)

In any case I think open solicitation contravening the rules laid out is not good. But as Enyong says, the excitement and gratitude felt when a fellow respected SF forumite helps you to secure something that you have WANTED (Let's face it, these are wanteds not Needs), you feel a great sense of warm fuzziness :D

Good and relevant topic to bring up Clovisc and correctly so, the self-moderating forums with level-headed 'senior' members is once again doing a good job.

[Manix Guy 2]

I know there have been times when a rare Knife thread has been posted to stir comments and the very knife just happens to be on the Bay or elsewhere . Baiting maybe , it does happen . MG2

[J Smith]

Many other forums for trading.
knifeforums.com
bladeforums.com
usualsuspect.net
glocktalk.com
candlepowerforums.com
EBAY
I have seen several rare Spydies on the USN in the past couple days including a NIB Lil Temp.

[Spyderwings]

I personally don't have a problem with a small "Spyders Wanted" in the sig line. That being said, keep it within reason. Don't have extra large red font so that it is all you see when you are reading through a thread. Herein lies the problem though; the whole thing is quite a grey area as has been mentioned, and it's hard to say that someone's sig line is fine while another's isn't.

Starting threads however, where the question is "Help me find ______" throws out the possibility of it turning into a BST thread even if it was not the original intent. And once again here lies the problem of deciding which threads are ok, and which are not.

In my opinion, the best way to find something in particular is the WTB forums such as on BF or knifebst. I have had luck using them before, so maybe give that a shot.

Just thought I'd add that this is not aimed at anyone in particular, and is just some general thoughts on the matter.

[David Lowry]

Wow this thread is still going?

I agree and disagree with points made by everyone.

I think the point has been made and we should let this thread die.

[bluemist]

david, you have a PM

[jujigatame]

I think the point has been made and we should let this thread die.

The thread hasn't even been "alive" for 24 hours, there could be a fair number of regular or semi-regular visitors who haven't even seen it yet and might like to add their thoughts. No one who thinks the point can't be furthered or chewed over any more is forced to read it.

[tonydahose]

i think david is thinking of a different but similiar thread that was started a few week backs.

[araneae]

Okay, Clovisc you brought up many valid points. I agree with most of what you said. We all know that there have been some posts lately that clearly violated the rules. "Rare Spydie X is going to be listed on ebay, etc."

I can also see how others feel it is nice to help each other out.

The whole sig line thing is indeed a grey area. I used to have a "wish list" until another member said I was soliciting a sale every time I posted. That was never my intention, I was simply saying that I wished I could afford one.:( I have since modified it to what I hoped was a better reflection of what I meant.

Lately, I have seen more and more sig lines that are a clear advertisement that the forumite wants to buy knife X, Y, & Z. Some are discrete, others are very obvious. Until there is an official opinion on sig line solicitations I would agree that they are best kept discrete or left for elsewhere.