Help me decide which Subcom

[Episteme]

Hi.
I'm considering getting another Boker Subcom F, but I'm torn (no pun intended) between the Wharcom and the Subclaw. The primary duty for this knife will be a last ditch 'hold-out' knife that will be worn in deep concealment (small of back IWB behind belt). Which Subcom F variant would have the best cutting potential?
Mike

[MountainManJim]

Episteme,

I love "The Village" (and most of M. Night's work). In that incredible scene there are a number of great lines. I like

Ivy E. Walker: “Why can you not say what is in your head?”
Lucious Hunt: “Why can you not stop saying what is in yours?”

Oh, I’d go with the hawkbill.

Jim

[ClockWork]

Torn?

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[TheKnifeCollector]

I would go for the Claw also.

[jujigatame]

Well, the Claw and the Wharcom both have great cutting and slashing ability. As a last ditch option you may very well not know what kind of cutting you'll have to do with it, on what material, in what kind of condition, etc., until you're actually in the middle of it. So with that in mind perhaps you want the one that will offer the most utility. The Whar has enough of a point that, IMO, you can punch it into or through something at more angles than the Claw with its rounded spine. The Claw is more effective at certain cuts (pulling, obviously) but I think the Whar lets you get more edge on more things with greater ease.

[Episteme]

Episteme,

I love "The Village" (and most of M. Night's work). In that incredible scene there are a number of great lines. I like

Ivy E. Walker: “Why can you not say what is in your head?”
Lucious Hunt: “Why can you not stop saying what is in yours?”

Oh, I’d go with the hawkbill.

Jim

It was a great movie. M. Night has a gift for being able to capture the essence of intense and powerful human emotion in a most cathartic way through combining great cinematography with breathtaking soundtrack in a manner that leaves the audience with an intimate glance into the deeper reaches of life, hope, purpose, and love.
I thought Lady in The Water was even better.

-Mike

[Episteme]

Thanks for the replies. I'm still thinking I might lean to the Wharcom. But eventually I'll probably end up with both.

Mike

[David Lowry]

I would say Wharcom because It's a nice Wharncliffe like the Ronin and the Instigator, and the Yojimbo and the Gravitator. ;)

[MountainManJim]

Well, jujigatame's post convinced me, the Wharcom does appear to be the most versatile.

I like the Lady in the Water as well, but the ending of The Village is so well crafted.

Jim

[nathan310]

I have both and I prefer the wharcom.

It's easier to sharpen and stabbing does much more damage than slashing if you're looking at it as a weapon and the wharcom is capable of both.

[Dr. Snubnose]

Epi: I also have both...My EDC in my top shirt pocket is the Wharcom....it's a great all around all purpose knife for everyday chores and my absolute favorite in the Subcom line up of folders....That being said, I would not choose it as a last ditch self defense hideout tool. Don't expect the results of a Ronin or Yo just because it's a wharncliffe design..It doesn't do any better in my testing than any other Subcom...As far as thrusting with, well with that small a blade your are just going to make your opponent good and mad at you...I think I'd rather stab someone with a ball point pen to be honest...The Subclaw is the sharpest out of the box Subcom and this is what I'd recommend for your purposes, it would be a better slash and run kinda knife for self defense.....Doc:D

[ClockWork]

jeeezz you guys are a dry bunch... lol

[Episteme]

Epi: I also have both...My EDC in my top shirt pocket is the Wharcom....it's a great all around all purpose knife for everyday chores and my absolute favorite in the Subcom line up of folders....That being said, I would not choose it as a last ditch self defense hideout tool. Don't expect the results of a Ronin or Yo just because it's a wharncliffe design..It doesn't do any better in my testing than any other Subcom...As far as thrusting with, well with that small a blade your are just going to make your opponent good and mad at you...I think I'd rather stab someone with a ball point pen to be honest...The Subclaw is the sharpest out of the box Subcom and this is what I'd recommend for your purposes, it would be a better slash and run kinda knife for self defense.....Doc:D

I greatly appreciate your feedback, Doc. I was under the impression that the SubcomF series were blades designed as small tactical folders that were robust enough to hold up to the demands of possible self-defense. That said, do you think that all of the SubcomF variants are as 'poor' stabbers as the Wharcom? I ask this because the design of all Subcoms has the thumb resting on almost the entire spine of the blade, which would be a good grip for a slash, but obviously a poor grip for a thrust (your thumb would get in the way). Since this would be the case (that Subcom's are slash-onlys), I was tending to lean away from the Subclaw due to hawkbills having the tendency to snag in clothing (and since the handle is small, the loss of the knife is a possible risk). I figured the Wharcom might offer the best of both worlds: snag/drag-free slashing.
Just a thought that I wanted to put out there; obviously you have a lot more empirical research under your belt and these matters are not ones that are solved a priori (at the armchair) but rather by empirical observation.

Best,
MIke

[Dr. Snubnose]

I greatly appreciate your feedback, Doc. I was under the impression that the SubcomF series were blades designed as small tactical folders that were robust enough to hold up to the demands of possible self-defense. That said, do you think that all of the SubcomF variants are as 'poor' stabbers as the Wharcom? I ask this because the design of all Subcoms has the thumb resting on almost the entire spine of the blade, which would be a good grip for a slash, but obviously a poor grip for a thrust (your thumb would get in the way). Since this would be the case (that Subcom's are slash-onlys), I was tending to lean away from the Subclaw due to hawkbills having the tendency to snag in clothing (and since the handle is small, the loss of the knife is a possible risk). I figured the Wharcom might offer the best of both worlds: snag/drag-free slashing.
Just a thought that I wanted to put out there; obviously you have a lot more empirical research under your belt and these matters are not ones that are solved a priori (at the armchair) but rather by empirical observation.

Best,
MIke
Mike: I'm not saying that the SubcomF can't be used as a defensive tool if needed, only that the Wharcom doesn't cut any better or deeper than any other Subcom blade shape. It has not been my experience that hawkbill blades snag on clothing unless they are serrated, but that seems to be true of most serrated knives. The snagging on clothes is a non-issue and my experience is that the hawkbill offers the least resistence while cutting thru a variety of materials. You must remember the Subcoms are small blades, and not my primary choice as a dedicated SD tool, they make very good back up tools because they are so easy to conceal anyplace on the body. I would feel more comfortable with the Subcom FB as a primary or back up tool, and it also conceals easily. So my professional opinion as someone on the forum once said, Sink in the tip and let her rip....Hawkbill would be my choice SD Subcom, as far a Subcom folders go plus they destroy those clamshell plastic packs with great ease.....Anything that has a point can be a good stabbing instrument...the SubcomF all have small blades and that equals lack of depth in terms of penetration with a knife...Kinda like trying to stab someone with a Ladybug...you can stab with it but cutting/slashing will prove to be more effective...Doc:D

[araneae]

I went through the same decision process a while back and ended up with the subclaw first. A week later I had a Wharcom too. I would just get both.:D

[Agent Starling]

I'll second that motion, araneae...I have both and wouldn't know how to choose between them! :D

Agent Starling

[Piercieve]

I have both and I prefer the wharcom.

It's easier to sharpen and stabbing does much more damage than slashing if you're looking at it as a weapon and the wharcom is capable of both.

I was under the impression that slashing tends to cause more damage than stabbing, especially with a blade such as this.

I dunno. I'm still torn on the issue. Seriously guys, I thought it was funny Clock. You got one laugh. :D

[spydutch]

If I was to buy a Subcom I would buy The Rescue. Really dig that one:cool:

[Hannibal Lecter]

My Dear Friend,

Go with the Wharcom - more utilitarian as well as being *nasty* for SD purposes. It is still my favorite SubCom variant.

--------
Hannibal

[whitefeather]

For last ditch SD I would go for the Cricket but if you MUST stray from the fold I would say, weak hand Wharcom, strong hand Subclaw:D:D:D

[Simple Man]

I dunno. I'm still torn on the issue. Seriously guys, I thought it was funny Clock. You got one laugh. :D

He got at least two, that is the funniest thing I've seen in a while, AND IT's A MIME. I thought mime was funny, that ain't right. :D

[Hannibal Lecter]

My Dear Friend,


Torn?

Thank you for the YouTube link - that is one of the funniest things I have seen in years!

--------
Hannibal

[slice22358]

I agree get both if you can. If not, go with the claw

[Billy]

My first (and only, so far) Subcom design was the Wharcom, but this thread has prompted me to go ahead and buy the Subclaw too! I must say, I really like my little Wharcom - very good utility knife that disappears in the pocket, is very sheeple friendly and the AUS-8 takes a super scary edge that holds reasonably well. Through various internet retailers, they are so inexpensive, you might as well save yourself some shipping charges and just order both!:D

[MAT888]

I would get both. I keep them as back up's and for tasks arround sheeple. I agree with doc that off factory the Subclaw is a better slicer. It has a higher grind 30 degrees or less included on it off factory.

I however altered the more obtuse angle on my wharcom with a DMT stone. So now mine is also 30 included edge. It slices way better now.

Although AUS-8 has less edge retention it is a very tough steel and i love that i can get it so wickedly sharp.



BTW ; funny vid Clock ;)



You won't be dissappointed with either one you get.

[Sharpy_swe]

The Subclaw is a scary little monster ;)


http://i120.photobucket.com/albums/o190/Foto_e_kul/subclaw_fram_l.jpg


http://i120.photobucket.com/albums/o190/Foto_e_kul/subclaw_bak_l.jpg