Problems sharpening abused knife

[Piercieve]

I had a VERY abused BM mini skirmish in S30V and to begin with, the only part of the blade that could even cut paper was right next to the swedge. The rest of the blade was so dull and nicked and rounded you wouldn't be able to cut anything...

http://spyderco.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=11256&d=1216102790

Anyways... I've tried a few different sharpeners, a little pocket diamond rod (the cheap ones with the rubber stoppers on each end), a little Buck whetstone kind of thing, and a crappy walmart deal.... None of those ever really worked.

Well, eventually I just started sharpening it in my free time on the sharpening rod that came with my kitchen knives. After maybe 2 hours of invested time, this guys is SHAVING sharp. Its a dirty shave, mind you, but I'm just excited it will cut hair.
Curious: as far as grit/roughness goes, where exactly is a kitchen knife sharpening rod?

I know. I need to invest in a sharpmaker.

When I do, what should I do? Get diamond rods and reprofile to 30 degrees, then secondary bevel to 40 degrees? With S30V what kind of angles can I get down to and still have good edge retention? (not cutting anything harder than rope/cardboard/carrots)
I think this knife is kind of becoming my hobby, it was so beat up when I got it back that I don't really mind messing with it... I've been sanding the coating off around the edges of the closed knife and stuff, and it looks nice. I think a complete rehaul is on the way. I got a file from home and some tools, so I might go nuts :D

Anyways, thanks for reading my adderall induced rant.
You guys kick a$$

Pierce

[vampyrewolf]

Want to know the EASY way to fix an edge like that? Use a dremel ;) Sanding drum on low speed and a steady hand.

I hold the edge on my millie at 30deg with a 40deg microbevel to kill the burr, and it gets used for everything. I beat on my lil temp without the microbevel, even cut drywall with it without a problem.

As far as how to do it, I prefer freehand. I've got a 204 beside the couch, a 303MF in my bag, and a couple stones on the floor by my chair (200/300 and 500/800 combo AO). When I've set an edge with either the dremel or 6" grinder, I then take my time working freehand with a style similar to sword polishing... polishing the bevel as far as each grit will let me. Can take hair off after the 800, get a cleaner swath on my leg with the spydie mediums, and after the whites you don't want to try shaving :eek: Take it to the strop to kill the burr, then back to either the medium or 800grit to lightly roughen the edge up.

Keep in mind that s30v does great with a rougher edge. While a polished edge will work great for a few days of heavy work, it'll keep a rougher edge at the same angle for a few weeks.

[Piercieve]

Keep in mind that s30v does great with a rougher edge. While a polished edge will work great for a few days of heavy work, it'll keep a rougher edge at the same angle for a few weeks.

Thanks for the info, and that is good news to me, because I like a toothier edge. I think the edge put on by the folks at spyderco is perfect as far as that goes. :)

I like what you said about pretty much getting the edge as smooth as possible and then going back to get that perfect edge. I've never heard anyone explain it like that, and I like. It makes sense.

I made the mistake of fixing the tip of the blade tonight... Now the edge at the tip is a little dull. It was a little blunt for my liking so I laid it spine down on some 220 grit and made it pointier, then I thinned out the sides slightly. I hit the edge a little bit on both sides, on accident. So now the first 1/8th inch is duuuullll.

Back to the ol' grindstone. (figuratively, of course)

[vampyrewolf]

I like what you said about pretty much getting the edge as smooth as possible and then going back to get that perfect edge. I've never heard anyone explain it like that, and I like. It makes sense.

Back to the ol' grindstone. (figuratively, of course)

I don't see why everyone thinks "hey, I need an edge like that 800 grit for a work knife, I'll just stop there" :rolleyes: Take the extra 10-15min to get it as polished as your stones will allow, and take it back to the course grit, and you can always re-polish it (hence why I say lightly roughen the edge up, you only need 5-6 light strokes to do it).

I love it when folks borrow my knife, complain that my polished edge isn't sharp and then lay open thier thumb testing it :p
It's really evil with my 'fly when I've got it as thin as the blade will allow, there's virtually a zero bevel on it and that's polished to hell. They get a beat up looking knife with a zero bevel on a ~12deg blade grind and a polished edge that looks rounded (convexed it 5-6years ago). It won't shave, but thats because it'll take skin.

[Shike]

I wouldn't get a power tool near the edge of any knife unless you have a lot of practice or are a knifemaker. You need lots of practice on cheap junk first, the Skirmish is a very good knife. With all due respect taking a Dremel to the edge is probably worst than a power sharpener. Knifemakers set the edge on blades with a belt sander and lots of practice. Send it back to Benchmade. Just friendly advice

Regards

Shike

[gordonk]

I wouldn't get a power tool near the edge of any knife unless you have a lot of practice or are a knifemaker. You need lots of practice on cheap junk first, the Skirmish is a very good knife. With all due respect taking a Dremel to the edge is probably worst than a power sharpener. Knifemakers set the edge on blades with a belt sander and lots of practice. Send it back to Benchmade. Just friendly advice

Regards

Shike

You make a very good point. It does take a bit of practice:) I use my 1x30 if I have to reprofile at about 320 grit. Simple smooth (emphasis on smooth..) pass or two. Then a few strokes on the brown rods. When I'm doing reno work, I've gotten more than few edges dull. Very rarely need to go beyond that. I've found that 40 deg. inclusive keeps a good working edge and keeping it a tad toothier doesn't hurt.

Yes - I've done a bit of knifemaking....:D

[4 s ter]

Pierce

With some basic woodworking equipment and a protractor I built this jig to hold an Eze-Lap diamond benchstone at a 15 degree angle off vertical. It allows for quick re-profiling of an abused blade to 30 degrees (inclusive) without the risks of overheating or uneven grinding that small power equipment might carry. It works great.

http://i140.photobucket.com/albums/r35/4ster/reprofilingjigresized.jpg

I follow this up with a Sharpmaker, setting the microbevel to 40 degrees then strop on a wood backed leather strop coated with Veritas green chromium oxide honing compound. You could follow up the reprofiling with whatever equipment you prefer or have available.

Hope this helps some.

[vampyrewolf]

I wouldn't get a power tool near the edge of any knife unless you have a lot of practice or are a knifemaker. You need lots of practice on cheap junk first, the Skirmish is a very good knife. With all due respect taking a Dremel to the edge is probably worst than a power sharpener. Knifemakers set the edge on blades with a belt sander and lots of practice. Send it back to Benchmade. Just friendly advice

Regards

Shike

3 years of machining in high school, countless kitchen knives with the grinder, and a couple dozen cheap knives with a dremel... enough practice ? :cool:

The biggest issue with using power tools to set the edge is heat, and as long as you are making contact with your fingers close to the edge you can tell when it's getting warm. Rule #1 with metalworking... if it's too hot for your fingers it's too hot for the heattreat.

Smooth steady passes on a bench grinder will give you an edge you can slice ripe tomatoes and mushrooms with quite nicely. Just a pass or two on each side with light pressure and it's done.

One of those things like soldering pins on a 160-pin micro with a 2.4mm tip at 700deg. Takes a steady hand, a light touch, and a lot of practice.

[Piercieve]

I wouldn't get a power tool near the edge of any knife unless you have a lot of practice or are a knifemaker. You need lots of practice on cheap junk first, the Skirmish is a very good knife. With all due respect taking a Dremel to the edge is probably worst than a power sharpener. Knifemakers set the edge on blades with a belt sander and lots of practice. Send it back to Benchmade. Just friendly advice

Regards

Shike

I don't plan on powertooling it up, I like working with my hands anyways... I have a couple crap knives I'm practicing on first. Some seven dollar ozark FB and some chinese made folder I've had since I was little.

I don't want to send it back to BM, I want to make it my own.

[cobrajoe]

vampyrewolf, you made me want to buy a dragonfly to make one like yours :D

Seriously though, I think a dragonfly, ladybug, or a starling would make an amazing pocket scalpel :D

Though I do have a beat up SE cricket that needs some attention...

[wescobts]

Shike is right, Benchmade is a very good company, and you have a very good knife from them, just 'cause it's not a Spyder doesn't mean you should look at it as "less than". The cost is minimal, and you can get in to the program that Benchmade offers: Sharp for life ( or something like that ) and they have a turn around time in like 4 days.

No disrespect to vampyrewolf, it certainly sounds like you are talented, and would do a great job on a knife with power tools, drive on. :cool:

[vampyrewolf]

cobrajoe:
I'd suggest you pick up a firm foam sanding block to thin/convex the edge, some SiC sandpaper (wet or dry) and a 1"x1"x6-8" hunk of wood to thin it down, a set of stones to get your edge back, a strop and a whole lot of patience. ;)

I've probably put 40-50hrs in on my 'fly over the 7years I've been beating on it, it's been in a neck rig for most of that time. I have to put the blade flat on the stone and polish it to hit my edge, usually it just goes on the strop (2 micron paste and 0.5 micron paste).

Look up the "mousepad convex" tutorial either on here or BFC if you need to, but essentially you put your sandpaper on foam and make parallel movements back and forth.
If you convex your edge first you don't have to work as hard knocking the shoulders off when you thin the edge bevel. Then put the sandpaper on the wood (just staple it around the backside) and work away. The first few grits look like hell, but the longer you spend with an 80 grit wet SiC, the less time you'll spend working with a 320grit. POLISH it as far as each progressive grit will let you or you'll have deep scratches from 2-3 grits ago staring you in the face. When you get as far as sandpaper will let you (usually just starting to bring the spine down), switch to stones and use a style similar to sword polishing.

Of course you could clamp it in a vice and use files on it, or hit a belt sander for a few seconds... but having produced it with hard work and your own hands is so much more rewarding.

[Shike]

3 years of machining in high school, countless kitchen knives with the grinder, and a couple dozen cheap knives with a dremel... enough practice ? :cool:

The biggest issue with using power tools to set the edge is heat, and as long as you are making contact with your fingers close to the edge you can tell when it's getting warm. Rule #1 with metalworking... if it's too hot for your fingers it's too hot for the heattreat.

Smooth steady passes on a bench grinder will give you an edge you can slice ripe tomatoes and mushrooms with quite nicely. Just a pass or two on each side with light pressure and it's done.

One of those things like soldering pins on a 160-pin micro with a 2.4mm tip at 700deg. Takes a steady hand, a light touch, and a lot of practice.


Dear sir:

I had over 25 years experience as a professional knifemaker making stuff like this
http://i194.photobucket.com/albums/z312/miguelo_conguero/scan0007.jpg
http://i194.photobucket.com/albums/z312/miguelo_conguero/scan0006.jpg
before I retired and I still would not take a Dremel to a knife edge:cool: But hey, to each his own.

Kind regards

Shike

[vampyrewolf]

Shike: I never said you didn't know what you were talking about, I simply said it can be done with power tools. I've got about 20yrs of freehand sharpening experience and have fixed countless abused knives. I went in to 2 restaurants and a pizza store here every week or so to sharpen thier knives for about a year, working with AO benchstones for 95% of the work, only taking the cleaver for the greeks to a grinder.

The big issue with folks having issues sharpening is quick sloppy work. I've seen edges mangled with a steel in 10 seconds that took 15min to clean up by hand.

[Shike]

Shike: I never said you didn't know what you were talking about, I simply said it can be done with power tools.

Dude: It's all good, no offense taken:D


The big issue with folks having issues sharpening is quick sloppy work. I've seen edges mangled with a steel in 10 seconds that took 15min to clean up by hand.

+1