Air Rifles: I want to know more

[JD Spydo]

It's been a few years since I had my last pellet or BB gun but I have very fond memories going back to my youth. I used to have a .177 cal pellet rifle that also shot BBs and it was great for small game, frogs, snakes and many other things a guy can encounter in the woods.

Recently I have been looking at some of the newer pellet and BB guns that they have on the market and as I understand it they now have stuff that is almost equivalent to .22 cal short ammo. I've heard that some of the newer air rifles are so accurate that they literally have olympic grade shooting matches for them.

The reason I bring all of this up is because one brother spoke of air rifles as part of a survival package on the Survival thread I have going here at this time. I've been away from air rifles for so long and I would like to know more about the modern high performance models as well as some old classics like Benjamin, Crossman and a few others.

Let's talk about Air Rifles and Pistols. I want to know more

[JaM]

If you can buy them over there, get a Weirauch. Those are nice and accurate, and give good value for money.

I've sold mine recently though, I dint have the time AND place for it anymore.

They are quite accurate in both .177 (4.5 mm) and .22 (5.5 mm).
I'll see if I can find some links...

edit: maybe this is somthing for you... http://www.airgun-hunting.co.uk/
I visited a good forum when I had one, but it's in Dutch. So I guess it's not really that helpful...

There's a lot of info for them out there. And they are easy to maintain, relative cheap, and lightweight enough to carry along with a load of bullets/pellets. So, in a survival-situation they might come handy.

then again, we over here cant get the rifles you can in the US (well, they are harder to get a permit for or to have them in your house even). Airrifles are a good option then..,.

[FLYBYU44]

I'm a member of the Canadian Airgun Forum (http://www.airgunforum.ca/forum/index.php?sid=6321d58dfd9a51fb6f821c9de82c4a74) I may have been the one that mentioned the airguns in the survival thread. I personally don't have a rifle, but I have a Baikal IZH-46M (http://www.baikalcanada.com/air_pistols_izh46m.htm) target pistol. I've hear less then good things about Benjamin rifles, apparently they used to be good but now aren't. I've never had one or even handled one, just rumors I've heard. Weirauch is supposed to be the top of the line for airguns from what I've heard. Many of the PCP (Precharge Puenmatic) guns will get close to a 22 short of performance, but they are super expensive usually. A break barrel is more affordable and good ones come close in performance to PCP guns. Most pistols are C02 and ment for playing around, unless you get a target pistol, they are very accurate and usually single pump or PCP.

[Tom v S]

Hey JD, good thread. I love Airguns:)

Here is my Weirauch HW97k. Very accurate, and smooth trigger! I can hit coins constantly at 50 yards. Mind you, it did get a custom kit in it with new seals, springs and stuff.
http://i207.photobucket.com/albums/bb309/Tomvs/BILD1378.jpg

This is my Webbley and Scott Hurricane, also a very nice little pistol.
http://i207.photobucket.com/albums/bb309/Tomvs/BILD0508.jpg

Tom

[Crowbar1]

I have a Beeman 22 cal that has been very good.

[JD Spydo]

I'm a member of the Canadian Airgun Forum (http://www.airgunforum.ca/forum/index.php?sid=6321d58dfd9a51fb6f821c9de82c4a74) I may have been the one that mentioned the airguns in the survival thread. I personally don't have a rifle, but I have a Baikal IZH-46M (http://www.baikalcanada.com/air_pistols_izh46m.htm) target pistol. ..... A break barrel is more affordable and good ones come close in performance to PCP guns. Most pistols are C02 and ment for playing around, unless you get a target pistol, they are very accurate and usually single pump or PCP.

Yes it was your response to my Survival thread that prompted me to put up this discussion ;) The "break barrel" type of rifle may have been what I used to have. The one I had was made in Scotland of all places and was marketed by "Daisy" here in the USA. It was a single shot that the barrel would break ( fold) down and then you could either put a .177 caliber pellet in the barrel or you could stick a BB in the air valve. >> then shut the barrel up and then you were ready to shoot. I can't begin to tell you how many small game animals, frogs, snakes and other targets I would hit. That gun was so accurate that often times I preferred to take it on a hunt rather than one of my .22 cal rifles. It didn't make much noise and the ammunition was very reasonable for a young man with a limited income.

I deeply regret selling that gun. I got some information about it last summer on an airgun Forum but I'll have to look it up because I forgot the URL. But I do remember 2 guys on that Forum that said in spite of the fact that it had bore the Daisy name it was a top notch air rifle that they imported. That gun cost me around $50 in the late 1960's and let me tell you that was a good chunk of change during that time period. But it was a professional grade air rifle for that time period and I miss it dearly and wish I had kept it.

I'm definitely going to get me another air rifle. I would sure like to get one that would shoot pellets and BBs both like that old one did. I wouldn't be opposed to another single shot.

[Tank]

I still have my old crossman 760 from when I was a kid. It no longer has the scope on it but it used to be very accurate. I loved shooting it.

[gull wing]

My nephew showed up with one so I could sight it in for him. Well, the trigger pull was so hard it was worthless. Obviously, a low budget item. I see some have TWO STAGE pulls.

DON'T GET A CHEEP ONE!

[araneae]

I have an RWS air rifle in my closet. Model 24 or 26 I think. I have a peep sight on it and used to shoot it regularly as a kid & teenager. It was pretty accurate, I could hit a Tylenol at 10 yards. I took more birds than I should have with that thing.

My father still has his Model 36 which took a rabbit or 2 out of the garden. He also has a nice recoilless RWS match pistol. There was also a .22 air rifle made by RWS for Winchester I think. Its older than me, but still worked well last time it was fired. RWS made some nice guns, not sure if they still do. Fun memories of those toys...;)

[Shike]

Check this beauty. The site has it all.
http://www.pyramydair.com/cgi-bin/model.pl?model_id=1743

[DAYWALKER]

I'm a member of the Canadian Airgun Forum (http://www.airgunforum.ca/forum/index.php?sid=6321d58dfd9a51fb6f821c9de82c4a74) I may have been the one that mentioned the airguns in the survival thread. I personally don't have a rifle, but I have a Baikal IZH-46M (http://www.baikalcanada.com/air_pistols_izh46m.htm) target pistol. I've hear less then good things about Benjamin rifles, apparently they used to be good but now aren't. I've never had one or even handled one, just rumors I've heard. Weirauch is supposed to be the top of the line for airguns from what I've heard. Many of the PCP (Precharge Puenmatic) guns will get close to a 22 short of performance, but they are super expensive usually. A break barrel is more affordable and good ones come close in performance to PCP guns. Most pistols are C02 and ment for playing around, unless you get a target pistol, they are very accurate and usually single pump or PCP.

Aloha FLYBYU44,

I ALWAYS wanted to get one of these, but was not familiar with the Baikal brand:
http://www.baikalcanada.com/air_rifles_izh61.htm

Your thoughts would be appreciated.;)
God bless!:)

[JD Spydo]

Check this beauty. The site has it all.
http://www.pyramydair.com/cgi-bin/model.pl?model_id=1743

Hey Shike I'm glad you posted that website for Pyramydair air rifles. I subscribe to a magazine known as "The Backwoodsman" and they had a full page ad on them this past month. I would like to know more about them and I'm wondering what quality their stuff is.

Also if any of you can set me straight on which air rifle or pistol as far as that goes is the highest quality, best unit for the money I sure would like to know that before I go on a shopping spree.

Again I would love to have a high quality air rifle that might have the capability of shooting BBs & pellets both. That older guy I had sure was great and had a lot of versatility. Also if there are any really good magazines, books or publications on the subject I sure would like to know about them as well.

I'm anxious to get back to air rifles. I'm going to check out that company "Pyramydair" and let me know if there are any others worth checking.

Oh by the way >> Nice to see you Mr. Daywalker :) Long time no chat in a while. I've really enjoyed some of your new designs that have hit the open market. Look forward to seeing more of them. JD :spyder:O

[FLYBYU44]

Aloha FLYBYU44,

I ALWAYS wanted to get one of these, but was not familiar with the Baikal brand:
http://www.baikalcanada.com/air_rifles_izh61.htm

Your thoughts would be appreciated.;)
God bless!:)

Hello sir,

I've looked at this gun a little too, but have never actually handled one in person. People generally seem to like it and it's very accurate. I've heard that the receiver and dovetails on the newer ones are plastic :( Mostly this is a bad thing if you are mounting optics, however if it were me it wouldn't matter since I like open sites. I found THIS (http://my.tbaytel.net/~coopers@tbaytel.net/BaikalIZHReview/) great detailed review of it for you. Anyway I love my Baikal pistol, I got it for $250 Canadian and it was still in the box! I guess you could say I stole if for that price. As far as I have been able to tell there isn't any plastic anywhere on it. The trigger on the thing is awesome and the sights are sweet too. Mine came with spare seals and different sight blades for the front and rear sights. If you want a accurate affordable target pistol I don't think there is a better one around.

[robin]

I own a cheap viper express by spanish gamo. Is nothing special, but is pretty fast an accurate. gamo developed also a special reloading multiple bullets cartridge wich works whell for pest controlling. With a few work (powered spring and some polishing inside) it can become extremely fast.

[wescobts]

For the cost of a good air gun , you could buy a real rifle.

[Shike]

Hey Shike I'm glad you posted that website for Pyramydair air rifles. I subscribe to a magazine known as "The Backwoodsman" and they had a full page ad on them this past month. I would like to know more about them and I'm wondering what quality their stuff is.

Also if any of you can set me straight on which air rifle or pistol as far as that goes is the highest quality, best unit for the money I sure would like to know that before I go on a shopping spree.

Again I would love to have a high quality air rifle that might have the capability of shooting BBs & pellets both. That older guy I had sure was great and had a lot of versatility. Also if there are any really good magazines, books or publications on the subject I sure would like to know about them as well.

I'm anxious to get back to air rifles. I'm going to check out that company "Pyramydair" and let me know if there are any others worth checking.

Oh by the way >> Nice to see you Mr. Daywalker :) Long time no chat in a while. I've really enjoyed some of your new designs that have hit the open market. Look forward to seeing more of them. JD :spyder:O

Top quality for the $? RWS. Shoot bbs and pellets? I think Crossman makes a few of those and fairly inexpensive.
Regards

Shike

[Shike]

For the cost of a good air gun , you could buy a real rifle.
That is very true, but then you have to supress it:eek::D.
With an air rifle you can get rid of pests or target shoot in your yard without bringing the police and with pellets the danger of ricochet is minimized.

[araneae]

I would stay away from anything that shoots BB's. Pellets were always the way to go if you want accuracy.

[araneae]

I always favored Beeman pellets. Beeman Ram jets were good all arounders. Kodiaks were nice hunting pellets, but you need to have a high velocity gun for them.

At one point Crosman had a premier match pellet where all the pellets came from a single mold. They were good too. Looks like they still have them, but the website doesn't say anything about the single mold deal.

Man I wish I had a basement to shoot in....All this talk is making me nostalgic.

[bigkahunasix]

PM sent.

[fredswartz]

When I was 9 years old I got my first BB gun, A Daisy Model 25 pump gun with a tube type 50 shot magazine. I used it until I was old enough to get my first real gun. The Model 25 was more powerful than the lever action models. National Rifleman once had a lengthy article on the gun.
Twenty five years or so ago Daisy came out with a centennial true copy with a medallion embedded in the wooden stock. I got one and shot it a lot. I hung a tin can in a tree at 50 yards from the deck and my wife and I both got really good. Later I bought an original Plymouth Michigan Model 25 and restored it. Both guns are now in my gun safe. I bought a cheap, plastic stocked Rogers Arkansas Model 25 to plink with I keep it in the garage and use it for pests. I also had a Benjamin 177 Cal. pump type Air Pistol with a rifled barrel that would kill small game. At one time I too was seriously considering an RWS or other name brand air rifle but got sidetracked. Just a rant.

[SteelDragon]

I have a couple of them that I use around the yard, I have an inexpensive Beeman rifle I use the most and it works great on rodents.

I also have a real nice Beeman P1 Magnum Air Pistol In 20 Cal.that I aquired on trade but have never used it as I wasn't sure I would keep it. Anyone have or use one of these?

[JD Spydo]

I would stay away from anything that shoots BB's. Pellets were always the way to go if you want accuracy.

That's really interesting "araneae" because the more I think about it I did seem to have my best luck frog hunting when I was using my airgun's option for .177 cal pellets. It makes sense too because the pellet certainly has the most wallop to it.

I probably should focus on getting either a .177 or .22 cal pellet gun.

Also the one brother does bring up the point that a .22 caliber firearm would be just as cheap as a high quality air rifle. But I do want the luxury of eliminating unnecessary noise. I also want the challenge of hunting with an air rifle. A good air rifle is quite capable of taking small game without making noise that might attract unwanted attention. That could even be a nice strategy to have in a "survival" type situation.

Are any of you aware of any good Forums, websites, or magazines all dealing with air rifles?

[MountainManJim]

JD,

I was looking for an air rifle a couple of years ago and settled on a Gamo Shadow 1000. Gamo makes a very nice break barrel springer (one pump). It's .177 cal with a velocity of 1000 fps. It's very nice :D And, the price is right, about $150. I got mine from Pyramid Air and had good service.

Jim

[THG]

I still have my old crossman 760 from when I was a kid. It no longer has the scope on it but it used to be very accurate. I loved shooting it.

I have one from 4 years ago or something. It is very accurate. It gets annoying having to give it 6 pumps every time, though.

[GoMeR]

Something to be considered with some of the higher fps air rifles is they will still make a very loud muzzle crack. Especially if you shoot the lighter high speed pellets. I bought a beeman .177 cal to kill some skunks at my cabin and the muzzle crack was nearly as loud as my ruger 10/22. Something to consider if your wanting to keep it quiet.

[MountainManJim]

Since, I don't have any firearms ... I like the bang of my Gamo :D

[Sam Vimes]

Are any of you aware of any good Forums, websites, or magazines all dealing with air rifles?

The Yellow Forum (http://www.network54.com/Forum/79537/), the biggest US based forum I know of and probably of most interest to you.

http://www.airgunbbs.com/forums/ possibly the biggest airgun forum in the world but it's UK based. There are plenty of US correspondents though.

As a long term user and collector of a stupid number of airguns I can only re-iterate what a few have mentioned already. If you want the best possible accuracy forget BBs. Proper waisted diabolo pellets are the way to go. You'll also need to consider the powerplant. Spring (or gas spring/gas ram), CO2, single stroke pneumatic or Pre-Charged Pneumatic. I have all but CO2 as I consider it expensive to run and erratic at temperature extremes.
Spring/Gasram rifles are harder to master and shoot well but can be very satisfying when you do learn how to do so. They also have the advantage of being totally self contained.
PCPs are expensive to buy but offer accuracy that's very easy for almost anyone to master easily. The downsides are that you are tied to a divers bottle, a high pressure pump or a gunshop/diveshop with a compressor.
You only get a finite number of shots, depending on the rifles cylinder capacity, before having to refill with compressed air.
Single Stroke Pneumatics do away with the need for a bottle/pump as there is a pump mechanism built into the rifle. The upside is PCP performance without the same drawbacks. The downsides of this is expense and complexity of the rifle and a relatively low limit to the number of shots before you are pumping again.

HTH

[gandalfe]

I agree with the previous posts about getting a Weirhauch.If they seem too expensive for you the best deal on a quality accurate rifle is the Diana model 34.They have been around for a while and have proven themselves to be great value.Weihrauch makes a model called a HW50s that gives good bang for the buck.I have owned my rifle for over 25 years and it always amazes me with its power and accuracy.It is the HW80 model in .177.You can't go wrong with those rifles.Old world craftmanship. http://i144.photobucket.com/albums/r173/gandalfe_photo/IMG_0015.jpg It's the one on the top.The others are QB78 deluxe[middle] and a Crosman Rabbitstopper[bottom]

[mightyd]

I am an airgun nut and an avid squirrel hunter. I have owned many high-end Euro guns: BSA Lightning, Lightning XL, Weihrauch HW77 and HW35, Beeman R7, RWS 94, RWS 45T01, RWS 34, Beeman C1, Beeman Crow Magnum, Air Arms Pro-Elite. They are all good, but my favorite so far is a Beeman R9 in .177. It shoots 7.9gr pellets at 860 fps, and I have cleanly taken squirrels with it out to 50 yards and maybe a little farther. I had the barrel shortened, recrowned, and rechoked and I have installed a spring kit to improve the firing smoothness.
In my opinion, the out of the box airgun most suitable for a survival kit would likely be a BSA Lightning XL thanks to it's compact size, yet good power and accuracy. The best gun for someone on a budget seems to be the RWS 34.
With spring airguns, there is a balance between power, light-weight, and accuracy (or at least ease of shooting accurately). Pick any two.
Although I own firearms, I like airguns better, because they are quieter, shorter range (if I miss or pass-through a squirrel, I don't need to worry about the pellet travelling for a mile or more), accurate, and pleasant to shoot, and I can shoot them in my basement safely.
Hear's a pic of my tricked out R9, a pair of red squirrels, and my little Buck NTX knife that bit me with the blade bug and led the way to a drawer full of Spydies.
http://home.earthlink.net/~airgunner/images/R9SG-3Red-2.jpg

[Slick]

I still have my old crossman 760 from when I was a kid. It no longer has the scope on it but it used to be very accurate. I loved shooting it.

Wow dude, I used to have a Daisy 760 as a kid and it did not have a scope. ?

Over time I learned that rifle so well I didn't even use the iron sites. Off the cheek worked well for me. Then again I wasn't a hunter. When using a nice 22 Reminington Sport Master 341 I still didn't need to sight up before firing. It was a great trick to to amaze your friends. I could make a good go of shooting off the hip. Very impressive when I could pull it off. Set up the bottles at the dump and blast them off the hip. A fond memory to be sure.

I thank everyone for their contributions to this thread.