my first Spyderco...& some questions

[bill]

I just received my first Spyderco today...The C41 Native plain edge. WOW! I love it! It is the best shaped knife I've ever held IMHO and I love the look of it, too.



I've carried a pocket knife every day of my life since I was a young boy (small pocket knives were not forbidden in school in my day) and what I carried didn't matter much until a friend gave me a Klien 2 5/8" lock blade with rosewood inlay (he was a Klien distributor). I loved that knife, and carried it daily for 12 years, until it was stolen from my checked luggage in Dec 2001. It wasn't a great knife, I know, but it fit my hand well, looked nice, and was the largest knife I felt comfortable carrying daily (I'm an IT&S guy working in a white collar world...the Native pushes the limit of acceptibility).



I felt naked all Jan 2002 without it (my stolen Klien). So, I finally had a reason to buy what I really wanted...A Spyderco. I was drawn to the Native C41, and so it was.



Though I had settled on the C41 already, I did some research on steel types and edge types...AUS-10 seems to be a very good blade material...but I couldn't find any information on the difference between flat ground and hollow ground edges. Can anyone explain?



Also, I'm going to purchase the 204 sharpener very soon, which I understand has two fixed angle settings, 30 degrees and 40 degrees. My Native will be used for cutting cardboard boxes, rope, fishing line, and very occasional whittling around the campfire. Can anyone recommend which angle I should choose?



Sorry for being long winded...It's in my genes.



Thanks!

[jyork]

Welcome aboard bill. You won't regret getting the Native. The 204 is also a great purchase, helps keep all mine sharp. Personally I sharpen to the 30 but I think that may just be personal opinion. Good luck and enjoy.

Jyork

[Hoosierdaddy]

Bill,

Welcome to the Spyderco Forum!

Good choice on the Native to start your &quot;addiction&quot; with <img src="wink.gif" width=15 height=15 align=middle> ! I can tell you it probably won't be your last Spyderco!

The difference between Hollow Ground and Flat Ground is H/G is a thick blade with a bevel cut. F/G is a thinner blade without the bevel cut.

[panguero]

xx

Edited by - sharp1 on 2/19/2002 5:42:51 PM

[Hoosierdaddy]

Sharp1,

You've got mail.

[RYAN]

Welcome to the forum Bill. You chose a great knife. The Native is hard to beat as far as from a utility standpoint. Keep it sharp, clean and oiled, and you won't be disappointed. The 204 is a great system, when you decide to get in the market for a sharpener. IMHO (and I know many will agree with me), it is the best system out there. <img src="smile.gif" width=15 height=15 align=middle>
As far as sharpening angles go with the 204. In the shop (and the video included with the system), it is recommended to sharpen primarily on the 40 degree angle. The 30 degree setting is mainly for really run down knives, where you need to remove the &quot;shoulders&quot; along the edge in order to ease your sharpening time and effort. Hope this helps ya out. <img src="wink.gif" width=15 height=15 align=middle>


Edited by - RYAN on 2/11/2002 5:26:23 PM

[yog]

Hi Bill, welcome aboard.

IMHO the Native is one of the best all rounders out there.
The hollow grind is formed by the blade being ground between to circular wheels, which means it has a thicker middle section but a thinner edge, this type is very good for light cuts like paper or string. The flat grind tapers from the spine of the blade right down to the cutting edge like most carving knives, this type is very good for deeper cuts where the blade is likely to pass all the way through the material.
I'm begining to favour the flat grind, but some of my favourtite knives are hollow grind - go figure <img src="smile.gif" width=15 height=15 align=middle>

A 40 degree sharpened edge is recommended for the softer steels like AUS-6 (AUS-6 is a good steel, but at the lower end of the good steels), whereas the better steels can take 30 degrees. AUS-10 should take a 30 degree edge just fine. If you do find that you are using the Native for very hard tasks and the 30deg edge isn't holding too well, you can use the 30degs as a back bevel and put a 40deg bevel on as the primary edge.

"Walk softly, but carry a big stick."

[Kahz]

bill,

The Native is a great knife, good choice for a first Spyderco. The Native's blade is hollow ground, compare it to a Calypso Jr., Chinese Folder, or Lil'Temperance, and you will see the difference. These last three knives are all flat ground. Hossier and Yog explained it quite well, btw. <img src="smile.gif" width=15 height=15 align=middle>
I include the site's photo of the Native (C41) and the Chinese Folder (C65) so you can compare.

Kahz

Edited by - Kahz on 2/11/2002 5:34:55 PM

[bell]

Good all around choice. 40 degrees would seem optimal for your use. When you get the Spydie sharpmaker and you look real close at the video, you will see Sal (CEO) pull a Native out of his pocket and show you how to sharpen it. Super video.

[liko]

There are three major grinds used in most knives: Hollow, Flat, and Saber.

Hollow grind is what is found on your Native. It is a thick overall blade for strength, with a concave (inwardly curved) grind from somewhere in the middle of the blade to the edge. It is very useful for cuts that don't require the blade to cut all the way through a hard surface. Sawing a thick piece of wood with a hollow-ground blade is difficult. The knife will bite right in till it gets about halfway up the grind, then the wedge shape becomes very pronounced and binds the blade. However, it is very useful in tasks where the cut is shallow but hard, such as thinner wood, cord, and cloth. Due to the inward curve of the grind, it may or may not work well for whittling, as the middle of the blade is much thicker than the edge (therefore getting in the way), and the slope to the edge is not linear, which would help to stabilize the blade.

Flat grinds are found on the Calypso and Calypso Jr., Lil' Temperance, and the new model Endura and Delica. In this grind, the dull side of the blade is pretty much the widest part of the blade. From there, it tapers in a straight line to the sharp edge. The result is a completely flat face on both sides of the blade. The blade is weaker overall than a hollow-ground, but you probably won't notice much difference unless you stab it deep in something and actually try to bend the blade. This grind is perfect for cuts where the entire blade has to go through a rigid material. The blade doesn't push the material to the side as fast.

The last grind, not found often on Spydies, is the saber grind. This grind is a cross between the flat and hollow. The overall makeup is like a hollow-ground, but the taper of the grind is flat instead of inwardly curved. This is the strongest style of blade, and still good for whittling, as the grind stabilizes the blade at the right angle to cut into the wood. However, it suffers many of the same problems as the hollow ground, in many cases to a greater degree. The flat bevel to the grind means that the material cut has to be pushed away from the moment it is cut into.

[J Smith]

I assume it is the Native ll you got with the aus 10 steel.I have the Native and Native ll.The aus 10 takes an extremely fine edge while the 440v takes a little more coarse edge.The aus 10 will slice through paper like it is not there but the 440V snags a little but it runs through card board better than any steel I have used.I sharpen both on 30 degrees.
Hopefully I will find the blue G10 version soon.The Native is the best design Spyderco has ever came up with,Endura,Delica,and Rookie being very close behind.I am sure I will get some argument on this.Everbody has thier own favs.
Just noticed you are from Nashville.I bought my Native at a little shop in Lebanon.
Jeff

Edited by - J Smith on 2/11/2002 11:30:59 PM

[sam the man..]

Welcome aboard the forums Bill! The C-41 Native is an excellent choice for a first knife! <img src="wink.gif" width=15 height=15 align=middle>

Sam

have spydies will travel

[double axe]

Hi bill,the CPM440V is IMO the best steel out there!It takes an amzingly sharp edge(and holds it for a long time)You cannot go wrong with 1515 sharpening!Good choice for a first knife!

[Lsaulog]

Welcome to the Forum, bill.

I <b>LOVE </b> the Native. <img src="smile.gif" width=15 height=15 align=middle> The ergonomics and handling are excellent. I'm sure you'll enjoy it for many years to come.

As far as sharpening goes, 40 degrees would work well for your intended use.

"Hope for the best. Be prepared for the worst. You'll never be disappointed."

[Pachucko]

The Native is gorgeous, but I don't think I would ever buy one. Your hand is just too close to the blade, its right on it. The &quot;choil&quot; as found in several newer models doesn't do alot for me (heresy, I know). Pachucks

[Sword and Shield]

Hi Bill! Welcome to the Forums! <img src="smile.gif" width=15 height=15 align=middle>

As for the 204, best sharpener ever made. Period. I have yet to see a knife that it couldn't hone, easily making them shave hair.

I would go for a 20/20 edge on the Native. While I'm one of the few that will say this, I've always noticed a 40 degree edge to be a better utility edge than a 30. 30 is an angle I use on woodcarving tools, but 40 is best for general use.

Good choice on the knife, still better choice on the forums. Glad to have you aboard. <img src="smile.gif" width=15 height=15 align=middle>

Keepin' it real...real sharp, that is.

[bill]

I cannot thank y'all (I am from TN, so pardon the slang) enough for your response. My new Native C-41 has renewed my interested in quality knives. I pulled it out of my pocket all day today at work just to look at it, and showed it off to everyone I know who carries.

I have to say this is the best forum I've ever visited. No wild tangents or flaming. I've never had such an honest and kind response to a newbie post...Once again, thank you all.

From what I've gathered here, I think the 40 degree edge will be best for my purposes. I'll be ordering the 204 sharpening system next week...and after having my C-41 for just 2 days now, I can say without a doubt that this will not be my last Spyderco.

Bill