Wicked Edge knife sharpener

[kwakster]

Since i'm thinking of importing the Wicked Edge knife sharpener into the Netherlands, i have been testing it on a multitude of knives.
While it has a few minor shortcomings, i'm very happy with the results in general.

This is their website: http://www.wickededgeusa.com/
For an impression it's best to view their demo's first.

Here is the latest conversation i had with Devin Kennemore, one of the managing partners.
His comments on my letter are coloured blue.

Hi Devin,

I finished testing your Wicked Edge sharpener, and i must say i'm quite pleased with the construction you came up with.
I bolted the Wicked Edge to an old but thick cutting board instead of a granite baseplate, but it works fine.

Let me start off with some critique though;

In it's current configuration (the set that i have used now) i find the Wicked Edge not suitable for the knife aficionado's like collectors, bushcrafters and hunters, because the 600 grit diamond stones are not fine enough to create the edges we are used to.
I've tried the system on about 20 knives in various steels from S30V and BG42 to 52100 and CPM3V and with the 600 grit diamond stones i was only able to create edges that would barely shave.

What angle did you sharpen these knives at and did you first form a detectable burr before moving up to the higher grits? One thing that we have noticed is that the new diamond stones take a bit of time to get broken in or “seasoned” if you will. I have a set that I have been using at trade shows now for a couple of months, sharpening knives all day both days of the weekends, almost every weekend, and they are well seasoned. I can make a knife shave at 22 degrees all day long just after using the 200 grit (orange) set of stones. After using the 600 grit, shaving is possible out at 25 degrees or more.

I know finer grits and polishing compounds can be ordered separately from you, but you have to remember we're situated quite far from where you are, so shipping costs and custom thievery have to be taken into account also.
My suggestion would be to create a different set for knife afi's without the 100 and 200 grit diamond stones, but instead with the 800 and 1000 grit diamond stones.
Maybe even one that comes complete with polishing compounds.
This would make for a better balanced setup, and one that at least my public would be more interested in.

We agree that for knife aficionados, the finer stones or some method of finer polishing are necessary. With the rest of the stones and the strops that we sell, you can easily achieve a mirror finish on any knife, even zdp-189 (I did a Kershaw recently for one of our resellers and it came out absolutely beautifully). Leaving out the 100 and 200 grit stones would make it pretty difficult to establish the initial bevel with the Wicked Edge, particularly after the stones have become more seasoned. We suspect that a lot of people would become frustrated quickly because it would take so long using the 400 grit stones to achieve a good burr along the full length of their blades before polishing it off with the finer stones.

However, to still be able to do the finer sharpening on the knives with the Wicked Edge i proceeded with wet & dry SiC paper in 800, 1000, and 1200 grit, which i cut out to the dimensions of the diamond stones and attached with tape.
This worked perfectly, and i did the same with thin hard cardboard and some polishing compound to finish the edges.
With this i was able to create beautifully formed and hairwhittling edges.
When using the diamond stones with the SiC paper taped to them i had to choose a half degree higher setting to accommodate for the thickness increase, otherwise i wouldn't hit the exact edge anymore, especially nearer to the point.
Maybe it's an idea for you to come with a system that makes use of some sort of 'stones' that would accept SiC-paper with some sort of clamping mechanism, instead of diamond stones.
I would think this would make your invention (and it is a good one) also more interesting for a greater audience as it could be made cheaper.
You could then sell different setups for different wallets.

We are currently testing and preparing to introduce abrasive tapes made by 3M and getting ready to have handle blanks made up to use with the tapes.

A second thing to look at is the clamp itself, which has difficulty clamping thicker full flat grind blades, like for instance a Spyderco Military folder.
When trying to clamp this blade it kept falling to the left or right without getting a steady lockup exactly in the middle.
After some puzzling i was finally able to clamp the knife using part of the ricasso, but this left me with a blade that stuck up in the air at 45 degrees from the clamp itself.
(Due to the hump on the Spyderco which houses the opening hole)
Sharpening was doable, but exact repeatability was not possible.
Maybe a possible solution for this could be to create two parallel & triangular grooves on both sides of the inside of the clamp just above the depth key holes, which could then hold the back of full flat grinds without giving them room for wiggling when clamped. Interesting concept. We’ll look into it.
But i gladly leave solving that problem up to you

We are currently modifying our remaining inventory of sharpeners such that the lower screw in the Fixed Vise Jaw is a stainless steel ¼-20, much beefier than the current 10-32. You can crank the vise down like a rock crusher on a knife with a full flat grind and they do not move.

When sharpening more expensive blades it proved also advisable to cover the clamped part of the blade in question with some tape to shield it from scratches, as the anodisation on the clamps is quite hard and probably type III, which in itself is good.
It was even able to scratch the surface of a Spyderco Endura ZDP189 which has a 65 HRC hardness.
Would fiber inserts be an option ?

We have found that if you tighten the vise sufficiently, you can easily avoid scratching the side of the blade because it’s the movement of a knife in the vise that causes scratches, not the force of clamping. We have sharpened knives with all kinds of finishes on the sides and have had no trouble with scratching unless the knife moves. We have tried using masking tape on the inside of the vise jaws to protect the sides of blades, but the tape catches steel filings and then if the knife moves, which is more likely with a cushion between the blade and the vise, you get scratches. At a minimum, we would recommend changing out the tape with each knife. You might also try placing a sticky note on each side of a knife over the vise after mounting it in the vise to act as a shield for the filings. Just a suggestion. We haven’t actually tried this yet.


Now the rest of my story:

The sharpening results using the Wicked Edge together with the wet & dry paper and the cardboard with polishing compound where exceptional.
The system created beautifully and better formed edges that were consistently sharper than practically any factory edge.
Especially these 'edge-aesthetics' are very important for collectors of more expensive knives using exclusive steels.
Because you sharpen both sides of the edge simultanuously you work faster, and you also have a better view on what you're doing because of the edge-up setup.
Another advantage is that because you sharpen lengthwise instead of perpendicular to the edge, like you do with most other systems, there is also much less burr formation.
I have no problem of using the Wicked Edge sharpener on a Chris Reeve Sebenza or a William Henry Lancet, in fact i would recommend it, the results are that good.


Possible additions i would like to see:

- Profiled diamond- and or ceramic stones to fit serrated patterns from for instance Spyderco.
With the help of the Wicked Edge guiding system sharpening these professionally would be a piece of cake.

In the works.

- Halfround diamond- and or ceramic stones for sharpening more complex edges like recurves.

In the works.

- As i stated earlier: some sort of aluminium stones with built in clamping system for SiC paper.
This would give your customer every freedom to choose what grit they want, buy it cheaply, and still have professional results.

In the works!

I have written a multipage user review with close-up pictures of the resulting edges on my forum, but sadly for you it is completely written in Dutch, so you cannot read it.
My story is however sparking some interest among my readers, and i already received a few mails if the Wicked Edge could be ordered through me.

I hope you will read my opinions as constructive criticism, as you certainly have created a very good sharpener.
The Wicked Edge only needs some tweaking and refining to appeal to collectors and users of more expensive knives.
When a setup like i suggested with finer diamond stones instead of the coarser ones comes available, let me know.

We are beginning to recruit custom knife-makers to use our system to finish their edges. When we do a demonstration using one of their own knives and polish it all the way down with our 3.5 micron diamond strops, they have to have it.

I expect that over time you will begin to learn a lot more about your sharpener. Certainly, the more we have used it, the more we have learned about it, and we invented the thing! We appreciate all the interesting things you have been doing to further polish your knives with your sharpener. I think we’re pretty much on the same wavelength with most of your ideas.

[Mightyquinn]

It's funny you brought this up because I was just looking at it this weekend online. I seem to be on the cusp of getting the technique down on the sharpmaker but just can't seem to get over the hump.:confused: Thanks for the review! I wonder if anyone else has tried one or seen one in action!

[MountainManJim]

I had heard that burrs form more when you stone towards the edge. I thought that was why we traditionally sharpen by moving the blade towards the stone.

Another down side is it's more expensive than the Edge Pro.

Jim

[Josh K]

It's interesting, but as with any clamp system (Lansky comes to mind) repeatable results depend on being able to clap it in the exact same place every time you sharpen.

That's why I prefer the Sharpmaker over systems. I'm more interested in versatility then exactly perfect repeatable results. Go out in the woods and try to use an Edge Pro or the Wicked Edge.

However, for large amounts of knives, or for the people who have an insane desire to get perfect edges every time, Wicked Edge is something to look into. :)

Nice review, I read 0% Dutch. Would you mind translating maybe? ;)

[kwakster]

Here are a few close-ups of edges i achieved using the Wicked Edge (with the use of wet & dry SiC paper and cardboard with polishing compound)

- K9 Dingo CPM3V fixed blade to 40 degrees inclusive, and the second knife that i sharpened on the Wicked Edge
This one did not get the polishing treatment yet, but it can treetop hair.
It is at the moment my favourite outdoorknife.

http://img179.imageshack.us/img179/7503/wickededgedingok9002.th.jpg (http://img179.imageshack.us/my.php?image=wickededgedingok9002.jpg)

http://img179.imageshack.us/img179/703/wickededgedingok9009.th.jpg (http://img179.imageshack.us/my.php?image=wickededgedingok9009.jpg)

http://img179.imageshack.us/img179/3914/wickededgedingok9006.th.jpg (http://img179.imageshack.us/my.php?image=wickededgedingok9006.jpg)

http://img179.imageshack.us/img179/8535/wickededgedingok9017.th.jpg (http://img179.imageshack.us/my.php?image=wickededgedingok9017.jpg)


- Spyderco Endura ZDP189 CE (Just the plain edge section) to 30 degrees inclusive
Can whittle hair now.

http://img179.imageshack.us/img179/4471/wickededgeendura4zdp189.th.jpg (http://img179.imageshack.us/my.php?image=wickededgeendura4zdp189.jpg)

http://img179.imageshack.us/img179/8250/wickededgeendura4zdp189c.th.jpg (http://img179.imageshack.us/my.php?image=wickededgeendura4zdp189c.jpg)

http://img179.imageshack.us/img179/582/wickededgeendura4zdp189r.th.jpg (http://img179.imageshack.us/my.php?image=wickededgeendura4zdp189r.jpg)


- Spyderco Military SE (Just the chisel grind plain edge section near the tip)
Can whittle hair now.

http://img179.imageshack.us/img179/2753/wickededgespydercomilitz.th.jpg (http://img179.imageshack.us/my.php?image=wickededgespydercomilitz.jpg)

http://img179.imageshack.us/img179/6827/wickededgespydercomilit.th.jpg (http://img179.imageshack.us/my.php?image=wickededgespydercomilit.jpg)

http://img179.imageshack.us/img179/944/wickededgespydercomilita.th.jpg (http://img179.imageshack.us/my.php?image=wickededgespydercomilita.jpg)

[miyamotomusashi]

Thanks for your review. I just ordered on on Thursday. I haven't heard anything about when they plan on shipping it though... just patiently waiting. I will report back with my opinions once I get it churning out some hair whittlers.

[kwakster]

Just sharpened my old Buck 186 with the Wicked Edge sharpener.
Because i don't have the ultrafine stones or the diamond stropping compound, i used wet & dry paper up to 2000 grit after which some cheap stropping compound on two pieces of cardboard.
Works just fine,:D

The hair was stolen from my girlfriend.


http://img21.imageshack.us/img21/5972/buck186010800x600.jpg (http://img21.imageshack.us/my.php?image=buck186010800x600.jpg)

http://img21.imageshack.us/img21/8041/buck186011800x600.jpg (http://img21.imageshack.us/my.php?image=buck186011800x600.jpg)

http://img21.imageshack.us/img21/8895/buck186009800x600.jpg (http://img21.imageshack.us/my.php?image=buck186009800x600.jpg)

http://img21.imageshack.us/img21/8163/buck186012800x600.jpg (http://img21.imageshack.us/my.php?image=buck186012800x600.jpg)

http://img21.imageshack.us/img21/2839/buck186013800x600.jpg (http://img21.imageshack.us/my.php?image=buck186013800x600.jpg)

[kwakster]

Yesterday evening i sharpened my Strider SMF for the first time on the Wicked Edge.
Straight from the Strider shop the S30V blade had a 45-50-ish edge that was also rather irregularly formed.

I've resharpened it now to an exact 40 degrees inclusive, using the diamondstones in gritsizes 100, 200, 400, and 600, after which i proceeded with SiC wet & dry paper in gritsizes 800, 1000, 1200, 1500, and 2000.
After this i kinda polished the edge using 2 pieces of cardboard impregnated with some no-name polish taped to the diamond stones, also using the Wicked Edge.
The fine scratches you see in the picture aren't visible with the naked eye, only with a jewelers loupe.
In real life the edge looks next to mirror polished.

The whittled hair i plucked from my leg, :D

http://i609.photobucket.com/albums/tt175/kwackster/StriderSMF4.jpg

http://i609.photobucket.com/albums/tt175/kwackster/StriderSMF.jpg

http://i609.photobucket.com/albums/tt175/kwackster/StriderSMF3.jpg

http://i609.photobucket.com/albums/tt175/kwackster/StriderSMF2.jpg

http://i609.photobucket.com/albums/tt175/kwackster/StriderSMF6.jpg

http://i609.photobucket.com/albums/tt175/kwackster/StriderSMF9.jpg

http://i609.photobucket.com/albums/tt175/kwackster/StriderSMF13.jpg

http://i609.photobucket.com/albums/tt175/kwackster/StriderSMF14.jpg

http://i609.photobucket.com/albums/tt175/kwackster/StriderSMF18.jpg

[Clawhammer]

I checked the vids on the website and this loks like a pretty good piece of kit. Pity about the poor service 'miyamotomusashi' got. It put some doubt on anotherwise easy to justify purchase.

[miyamotomusashi]

I checked the vids on the website and this loks like a pretty good piece of kit. Pity about the poor service 'miyamotomusashi' got. It put some doubt on anotherwise easy to justify purchase.

UPDATE: Still awaiting the rest of my order... They seemed to have stopped answering their phone, and my emails seem to go unnoticed as well. I'm getting suspicious and worried.

I'll keep you updated, and I'll post a review as well, but I haven't had much luck so far. I want to give myself a chance to become familiar with it and give it a fair go, before I post a formal review.

[kwakster]

This just came in:

Blade Magazine 2009 Accessory Of The Year: Wicked Edge “Precision Knife Sharpeners”

[SecSpyral]

It looked great at the show, but for the price....i don't think so. Lansky makes an aligner system for 60 bucks that does the same thing. I'll stick with my sharpmaker and aligner system but If I had the extra cash I'd go for this.

[miyamotomusashi]

My advise is to stick with the Sharpmaker!

[Leatherneck]

Hmm, might be a POS but if I can convince my Mother-In-Law that it will decrease the hanging flab under her arms, she'll buy one and soon stow it next to the other 15 bunblasters, thighdecreasers and such for me pilfer shortly thereafter. No cost to me!

[GoMeR]

I have an edge pro and couldnt be happier with it, I know you said your not interested but any of these type of stone sharpeners have the potential to scratch the blade. I just blue tape the blade before starting and have not had a problem with scratches, even on black coated blades. Most every sharpening method has its pros and cons, It comes down to what a particular individual will and will not put up with. As for the stones wearing on the edge pro, they last fairly well and are 7 bux to replace so its not that big of deal to me. It is however an ongoing cost issue and people should be aware of the extra costs that are not included in the initial purchase.

I looked at the wicked edge when I bought my EP and saw some of the flaws you pointed out in your review just in the online demos. I had enough concerns about it to keep me from purchashing it.

Thanks for the review, It gives some insight for people who might be interested in buying one of these sharpeners.

[kwakster]

Sadly Myamoto had a very bad experience ordering the Wicked Edge, but i get the impression that this has coloured his review of the contraption itself somewhat.
My own review shows something quite different, with pictures to showcase what can be achieved with this sharpener.
The Wicked Edge is indeed rather expensive, but given the amount of money i spend on quality knives as well as the results i'm getting with this sharpener, i think it's worth it's money.

[miyamotomusashi]

I really tried not to be biased with my review. Like I mentioned, I actually do like this thing, it was just a HUGE ordeal for me to experience and goes down in the books as number one most painful buying experience. I don't want to discourage anyone, if they have that extra money and I really hope no one else has to go through what I did.

Hopefully, they're going to overcome their issues, and resolve all their communication issues (like completely forgetting orders, etc.)

I really don't know why they never answer their phone or emails though, that seems like it would have an easy solution to fix.

Kwakster, I understand your position on this tool, and I agree with you on many points, but my review stands, and I'll post an update with the newer stones soon enough.

[miyamotomusashi]

I ended up selling it, and I don't miss it one bit.

[Pneumothorax]

Miyamotomusashi, despite your bad experience, the one great piece of information from your review is how full flat grind blades dont fit in the mount evenly. Lately, all of my blades are FFG. Im open to how that gets done, but for now, that seals the deal for me.

[miyamotomusashi]

Well, my thoughts so far were developed before I had the complete kit. They really shouldn't send it without the finer stones, cause it won't get anything sharp.

I decided to give it a good go today, and I actually got one of the most sharpest edges I've ever gotten. It put a "mirror" polish on the edge, and perfectly uniform.

Although, during my sharpening frenzy, the damn thumbscrew on the angle adjustment on one side came loose! :mad:

With all the different grits I have now, it really is neat to do both sides at the same time, and when I learned to have equal pressure from both sides, I started getting some seriously keen edges.

It did bind up a little, not bad enough to completely stop the motion, just hamper it a little. It also squeaked some.

I know there are a lot of things that annoy me about this thing, but it is also really good at what it does, just in an annoying way.

[kwakster]

Previously posted on Jerzee Devil;

While i think that most of us on this forum know how to sharpen knives in one way or the other, i do think the Wicked Edge has it's place.
First, it gives novices the ability to sharpen their knives to a level they would never accomplish freehand, and second, it gives the more experienced users the ability to reprofile their knives to a level of perfection i myself have never seen before.
In this it even trumps the Edge Pro because you work both sides of the edge at the same time, allowing the user much more control to build the new edge exactly in the middle of the steel, which is very important for later sharpenings and touch-ups on for instance a Sharpmaker.

My only gripe with the system until now, and i think i'm one of the very few that did an unbiased, fairly extensive review of the system, is that i still would want to see the Wicked Edge with finer diamond and/or ceramic stones.
Not as aftermarket accessories like they are now, but in one box as a complete system.
The problems with ordering, shipping and handling, although they are real at the moment, i consider hick-ups from a starting-up company.
Cut them some slack, they're already starting to prove themselves.

For the results i've been experiencing with the Wicked Edge Sharpener take a look at some of my previous posts. :)

[Resist]

After SIX days, and not hearing ANYTHING, I called Wicked Edge, to find out what is up with my order. They said, "Oh, huh... That's weird. We haven't done anything with your order yet.After I placed my order with Wicked Edge I was told an accessory was back ordered. I was asked if I wanted to substitute the item with something else, wait out the back order or have part of the order shipped to me. I responded and hadn't heard back from them until a week later when I emailed them. They apparently were still waiting for my response, but informed me the back order could take a month. I was very disappointed, especially since their web site hadn't shown this item was out of stock. I had even emailed Clay prior to placing my order and he said nothing about this. It really bothers me that they didn't get back with me right away or keep their web site updated. I had read online that others have had terrible customer support from Wicked Edge, now I see what they are talking about.

I ended up canceling my $300 order, even though I believe their knife sharpening system is perfect for me. Guess I will end up saving myself money and buying a less expensive system.

[jackknifeh]

I have an edge pro and couldnt be happier with it, I know you said your not interested but any of these type of stone sharpeners have the potential to scratch the blade. I just blue tape the blade before starting and have not had a problem with scratches, even on black coated blades. Most every sharpening method has its pros and cons, It comes down to what a particular individual will and will not put up with. As for the stones wearing on the edge pro, they last fairly well and are 7 bux to replace so its not that big of deal to me. It is however an ongoing cost issue and people should be aware of the extra costs that are not included in the initial purchase.

I looked at the wicked edge when I bought my EP and saw some of the flaws you pointed out in your review just in the online demos. I had enough concerns about it to keep me from purchashing it.

Thanks for the review, It gives some insight for people who might be interested in buying one of these sharpeners.


I've never seen a Wicked edge so I don't know anything about it, but I have an Edge Pro and can't say enough good things about it. You mentioned the stones needing to be replaced periodically. Like you indicated the cost is not bad but definately something that potential customers need to know. I used the DMT aligner sharpener and fell in love with the diamond stones. Someone on this forum brought up a web site that has DMT stones mounted on the stone blanks for the Edge Pro. I think when it's time to replace my water stones I may get the diamond stones. The stones are 6" long and 2" wide which makes them usable as a bench stone when not in the Edge Pro. They should last longer than the water stones I think. I've already gotten a stone blank and rigged my 4" DMT stones to be used in the Edge Pro. They worked really well. I believe combining diamond stones with the Edge Pro system would make for a very happy marraige.

Ben Dale, inventor of the Edge Pro doesn't like diamond stones except for sharpening ceramic blades. He says they may be ok for a homeowner who sharpens his own knives but since he sharpens so many knives the diamond stones wear out real fast. Please don't quote me on Ben's opinion of diamond stones because I'm sure he could explain his reasons for his opinion.

Anyway, I'd recommend the Edge Pro to anyone. In fact I did that just yesterday with a typed recommendation. I think it was over a page and still had more good things I could say about it. There are several very good sharpening systems out there and the Edge Pro is one of them and the best one I've ever used by far. In fact I'm working on a report of what I like and don't like about the Edge Pro. That way when I recommend the EP I can just include the comments I already have and won't need to type them again (like now).

Go Edge Pro,
Jack

[miyamotomusashi]

I just wrote a HUGE update, but then when I clicked submit, it asked me to log in again, and deleted my HUGE response. Urgh, I’m not typing it again.

[jackknifeh]

I just wrote a HUGE update, but then when I clicked submit, it asked me to log in again, and deleted my HUGE response. Urgh, I’m not typing it again.

I've done that before. What I do sometimes is type my post using MS Word. That way I can save what I'm typeing every couple of minutes. I can even stop to get a sandwich or whatever. When I'm done I copy and paste the text into the post on the forum. My PC is on it's last leg and once in a while just restarts, sometimes after I've typed for 15 minutes. That's why I started using Word. After my PC restarts I just open the document and continue. On the other hand some of the forum readers may be happy my lengthy posts get deleted. :D

My sympathies,
Jack

[miyamotomusashi]

Yes, it was probably meant to be.

Anyway, I just realized the way they (Spyderco) gets them scary sharp from the factory is with power tools: Belt Sander and some sort of grinding or buffing wheel. I should have known they’re not building them from the factory with the Sharpmaker. Sharpaker is a SAFE and reliable (great) way to touch up the edges, but for serious (and dangerous - or “non-consumer”) sharpening, power tools seem to be the way to go. From all the research (Google) I’ve been doing, it seems like EVERY knifemaker, or company uses a BELT SANDER to get ‘em sharp when new.

I understand it’s dangerous, if you place the blade facing the wrong way and your knife becomes a projectile, out of control flying missle - and how easy it would be to overheat and ruin the temper, if you’re not careful, and how safety goggles would help keep molten, metal powder from blinding you - but I’m going to buy myself a “real” kit.

Knives are dangerous, so I don’t need all of these “safe” sharpening systems. Isn’t that what it really all boils down to anyway? You go slow, so you don’t overheat the blade, there are brass rods, to protect your hands. I’m thinking if you lose the “safety factor” and you just want your steel scary sharp, you better do it how the PROS do it, on machines. Just where I’m at after 25+ years of battling the “wire edge” issues, and spending a small fortune on every safe system out there.

Note: I’ll always keep the Sharpmaker, as my travel kit. Perfect for touch ups and I’m not discrediting it one bit. I just think the Wicked Edge was a bad buying remorseful decision for me, as I’ve found so many design flaws and was expecting so much more.

[2cha]

After I placed my order with Wicked Edge I was told an accessory was back ordered. I was asked if I wanted to substitute the item with something else, wait out the back order or have part of the order shipped to me. I responded and hadn't heard back from them until a week later when I emailed them. They apparently were still waiting for my response, but informed me the back order could take a month. I was very disappointed, especially since their web site hadn't shown this item was out of stock. I had even emailed Clay prior to placing my order and he said nothing about this. It really bothers me that they didn't get back with me right away or keep their web site updated. I had read online that others have had terrible customer support from Wicked Edge, now I see what they are talking about.

I ended up canceling my $300 order, even though I believe their knife sharpening system is perfect for me. Guess I will end up saving myself money and buying a less expensive system.

My shopping experience with Wicked Edge was fine. I was warned both on the website before I purchased and via email that my items were back-ordered. I was notified when my items shipped. They arrived well packaged.

[jackknifeh]

Yes, it was probably meant to be.

Anyway, I just realized the way they (Spyderco) gets them scary sharp from the factory is with power tools: Belt Sander and some sort of grinding or buffing wheel. I should have known they’re not building them from the factory with the Sharpmaker. Sharpaker is a SAFE and reliable (great) way to touch up the edges, but for serious (and dangerous - or “non-consumer”) sharpening, power tools seem to be the way to go. From all the research (Google) I’ve been doing, it seems like EVERY knifemaker, or company uses a BELT SANDER to get ‘em sharp when new.

I understand it’s dangerous, if you place the blade facing the wrong way and your knife becomes a projectile, out of control flying missle - and how easy it would be to overheat and ruin the temper, if you’re not careful, and how safety goggles would help keep molten, metal powder from blinding you - but I’m going to buy myself a “real” kit.

Knives are dangerous, so I don’t need all of these “safe” sharpening systems. Isn’t that what it really all boils down to anyway? You go slow, so you don’t overheat the blade, there are brass rods, to protect your hands. I’m thinking if you lose the “safety factor” and you just want your steel scary sharp, you better do it how the PROS do it, on machines. Just where I’m at after 25+ years of battling the “wire edge” issues, and spending a small fortune on every safe system out there.

Note: I’ll always keep the Sharpmaker, as my travel kit. Perfect for touch ups and I’m not discrediting it one bit. I just think the Wicked Edge was a bad buying remorseful decision for me, as I’ve found so many design flaws and was expecting so much more.

I've seen a video of Spyderco's factory where they are making a Native and they do use a grinding wheel or something similar. I think this is mainly for speed since they are being made on an assembly line. Some that I've bought do come RAZOR sharp and some others come sharp but not RAZOR sharp. I think that depends on the skill of the person who handled that particular knife or maybe someone was just having a bad day. Who knows. All knives will get dull sooner or later so if they need a touchup right out of the box it's no big deal.

About safety, I use the Edge Pro which is about as safe as any and I still nick myself once in a while. :eek::D Can't blame the sharpener or the knife though. I'll take credit for all my scars. :o

Jack

[2cha]

Something I noticed last night with Wicked Edge while sharpening a PM2, due a protrusion that surrounds the entire stone (probably a safety feature and I will grind them off or hollow out so I can reach) one cannot sharpen the entire edge of the knife--the first 1/16-3/32 cannot be accessed. I can access the entire edge on a Manix 2 due to the curved plunge line of the hollow grind.

Is this an issue with the edge pro?

[angusW]

Yes, it was probably meant to be.

Anyway, I just realized the way they (Spyderco) gets them scary sharp from the factory is with power tools: Belt Sander and some sort of grinding or buffing wheel. I should have known they’re not building them from the factory with the Sharpmaker. Sharpaker is a SAFE and reliable (great) way to touch up the edges, but for serious (and dangerous - or “non-consumer”) sharpening, power tools seem to be the way to go. From all the research (Google) I’ve been doing, it seems like EVERY knifemaker, or company uses a BELT SANDER to get ‘em sharp when new.

I understand it’s dangerous, if you place the blade facing the wrong way and your knife becomes a projectile, out of control flying missle - and how easy it would be to overheat and ruin the temper, if you’re not careful, and how safety goggles would help keep molten, metal powder from blinding you - but I’m going to buy myself a “real” kit.

Knives are dangerous, so I don’t need all of these “safe” sharpening systems. Isn’t that what it really all boils down to anyway? You go slow, so you don’t overheat the blade, there are brass rods, to protect your hands. I’m thinking if you lose the “safety factor” and you just want your steel scary sharp, you better do it how the PROS do it, on machines. Just where I’m at after 25+ years of battling the “wire edge” issues, and spending a small fortune on every safe system out there.

Note: I’ll always keep the Sharpmaker, as my travel kit. Perfect for touch ups and I’m not discrediting it one bit. I just think the Wicked Edge was a bad buying remorseful decision for me, as I’ve found so many design flaws and was expecting so much more.

When you're using wood it's a belt sander. When using steel it's a belt grinder ;):D

I have a small 30"X1" belt grinder in my shop with sharpening belts and a leather strop as well. I can get an extremely dull blade of s30v very sharp in a matter of minutes with it. I've never gotten the blade too hot when using the belt grinder and have never had a blade thrown out of my hands, but I still wear safety glasses just in case. But it feels like cheating so most of the time I use the SM. I'm not terribly skilled at it but I really enjoy using it. It's almost like meditating and there is a feeling of satisfaction when I notice my skill level increase while using it.

[jackknifeh]

Something I noticed last night with Wicked Edge while sharpening a PM2, due a protrusion that surrounds the entire stone (probably a safety feature and I will grind them off or hollow out so I can reach) one cannot sharpen the entire edge of the knife--the first 1/16-3/32 cannot be accessed. I can access the entire edge on a Manix 2 due to the curved plunge line of the hollow grind.

Is this an issue with the edge pro?

I have an Edge Pro but not a PM2. The EP strokes the edge at a 90 degree angle (or as close as you want) with the edge of the knife so the stone can get right to the end of the edge at the pivot of a folder. So I doubt if you would have the problem you are talking about with the EP but without pictures it's hard to tell.

Jack

[miyamotomusashi]

Does anybody know the “ideal” thickness of the blade to use with the Wicked Edge? If the blade is thicker, it changes the degreeº numbers on the RIGHT side - and if it’s thinner, it makes those numbers more obtuse than what they read.

I remember someone posting this “ideal” thickness the machine was calibrated too, but I can’t find it now - and I’m anal enough that I NEED to account for this when I reprofile my expensive knives.

I guess buying a tool like some digital angle finder would be an easy way to figure it out without math, but I don’t really have the means to buy one of those right now, nor would I even know where to look, or what options I would need, etc.

I want to sharpen a pretty thick blade, but I want to account for the “ideal” calibration of the read-out on the adjustable universal joints, at the base of the rods. Does anybody know of an easy way to do that? Thanks!

[rycen]

Sounds like this might help

http://m.rockler.com/m/http/www.rockler.com/product.cfm?page=22143&filter=The%20cube%20angle&vm_qb=rockler_product_details%2Chttp%3A%2F%2Fwww.r ockler.com%2Fproduct.cfm%3Fpage%3D22143&vm_co=0&vm_v=dhQVwvk5ApFeEwbINX-qrtZFw_mASHhOrz06XsKSlV0%3D

[miyamotomusashi]

Sounds like this might help

http://m.rockler.com/m/http/www.rockler.com/product.cfm?page=22143&filter=The%20cube%20angle&vm_qb=rockler_product_details%2Chttp%3A%2F%2Fwww.r ockler.com%2Fproduct.cfm%3Fpage%3D22143&vm_co=0&vm_v=dhQVwvk5ApFeEwbINX-qrtZFw_mASHhOrz06XsKSlV0%3D

Thank you. I actually downloaded an app for the iPhone, called “iLevel” which is the exact same thing - pretty neat, actually. And it was FREE!!!

I found out that with the thick blade stock of the SMF Strider, I had to set the right side to 21º while the left side was at 20º to get them to match, then with the stones - I measured angles, and found I was actually at 15.6º! :eek:

So, I would NOT go by the numbers printed on that thing - I recommend a (free) angle (digital, free) read-out too., so both sides will match, and also be an accurate read-out, so you know exactly how much metal you’re grinding off.

So, after I got it all set up, it made a very obtuse angle near the pommel, while getting VERY acute towards the tip. The level of variation was preposterous. Then I looked up research, and read that I should clamp it so the belly curve is closer to the pivot point of the rods...

This (because of the way my Strider SMF is ground) cause the blade to NOT clamp straight up and down - because I was on the flat ground part - but the worst part is that it made the blade BIND terribly, skewing the blade towards the left, and it was clamped crooked - and no matter how much I loosened the bottom bolt in the clamp, I could not BUDGE the top screw... Then my knife moved in the clamp and left a HUGE GOUGE in my (Expensive) S30v. :mad:

I had to get a loner leverage tool to release my (now scarred) knife from this POS clamp and I got out my belt grinder with leather belt strop and got myself an EVEN and UNIFORM, MIRROR FINISH within ten minutes.

I have given up on the Wicked Edge COMPLETELY. I believe it is a worthless POS and I vow to NEVER clamp another knife in there. I almost threw the thing across the room, because it cost me over $400 total, and just wrecked my $550 knife.

I would have put up with all this machine’s issues, if only it could do an EVEN BEVEL, but (measuring with my iPhone and iLevel) it ranged from 20º at the base and went all way down to 12º toward the belly and tip! UNACCEPTABLE, especially on a “nicer” knife! :(

EDIT: WIth iLevel, you have to keep the iPhone/iPod, VERTICAL while making measurements - up and down... it’s hard to explain, but as you move the rod back, and the iPhone would “lean” backwards, you have to keep it straight up for accurate read-outs... I’m sure the real tool that rycen linked too would work a lot better, but the free app worked in a pinch.

[angusW]

Sounds like this might help

http://m.rockler.com/m/http/www.rockler.com/product.cfm?page=22143&filter=The%20cube%20angle&vm_qb=rockler_product_details%2Chttp%3A%2F%2Fwww.r ockler.com%2Fproduct.cfm%3Fpage%3D22143&vm_co=0&vm_v=dhQVwvk5ApFeEwbINX-qrtZFw_mASHhOrz06XsKSlV0%3D

I have the identical one but I got mine from Lee Valley (http://www.leevalley.com/en/wood/page.aspx?p=67350&cat=1,41080,51225&ap=1). I would think that it would be more accurate than an iPhone app plus you can zero it at any angle. A quick way to see if a level is off is to put it on a level surface then spin it 180º and see if you get the same reading.

[miyamotomusashi]

You can zero the iPhone app at any angle as well, and it gives you to the tenths of a degree. I tested it the same way, with a flat piece of granite slap... It was surprisingly accurate, and FREE! Worth a shot, if you already have an iPod/iPhone, and are interested... At least while you’re waiting for your more expensive one to arrive.

I buy into HIGH QUALITY tools just like most knife knuts, and I found the app to be more than adequate for angle measuring. I was actually really impressed!

The one I used is called, “iHandy Level”.

EDIT: Oh yeah, you need to use it on the side without buttons...

[Evil D]

After watching the video they have on their site, the first thing i immediately noticed is that this setup still doesn't solve the problem with clamp placement. It does have the little peg you stick in that assures that you've clamped the knife in the same amount each time...however, the height of the blade itself plays a huge role in the final degree you get, since the further the edge is away from the 90 degree point that the stones are pivoting off of, the lower the bevel is going to be. You'll also notice that in the pics posted above, the bevel starts getting much lower at the tip...because the tip is further away from the clamp than the belly of the blade.

Of course, this is an issue that all clamp systems have to deal with. I think a better design than that little peg would be to make it so that a set amount of blade was always sticking out from the edge of the clamp...it needs to be made adjustable so that, for example, maybe 1cm or so of blade is sticking out from the clamp...so that you can set it up for any size knife and still have the same amount of blade coming out from the clamp, otherwise on a tall kitchen knife, God only knows what your ending bevel degree is. I'm no expert but the Endura pics look a LOT lower than 30 inclusive to me, especially given that Spyderco shoots for 30 from the factory and that bevel looks like it's nearly twice as wide as the factory edge (unless that knife has been sharpened a LOT). Still, i'm sure you'll still get repeatable results with any knife...you may just have issues when going from this setup to a Sharpmaker, when you think you're at 30 inclusive and you go to hit it on the 30 slot and find that you're way lower than that.

[Javascript]

I watched all the videos provided on the WE website, read the material, and must admit I like what I see. It looks like a quality product, yet I see that those with experience have differing opinions.
Seems to me that the WE system tries to do what other alignment systems try to do--maintain the precision of the sharpening process for one knife-sharpening event (short-term repeatability).
Operator skill is still required, especially when duplicating the setup conditions for resharpening the same knife at a later date (reproducibility). The WE tries to address that with the spacer and angle-setting rods.
The Lansky has the same problem with FFG blades—how to adjust the jaws to accommodate both the sloping side of the blade from spine to edge and taper of the blade from tang to point. I use a non-elastic tape as a spacer on the blade such that each side of each jaw will contact both the spine and the tape further down the spine. Now I have 2 points of contact on each side of the blade, and I do not have slip/slide issues.
I have also measured and recorded the length of the jaw and height of the slots and use those values to calculate the approximate angle for a given knife.

[Evil D]

Well, if you consider and accept the fact that these clamp system go by their own rules as far as what the actual degree of the bevel ends up being...then you can just adjust the clamp so it clamps flush on the sides of an FFG blade, and set it up every time that way and you'll always get repeatable results. Of course, if you then go to a Sharpmaker, you may find that you're not exactly at 30 degrees or whatever...but if you only use the clamp sharpener then you don't really have to worry about that.

I struggled with clamping my FFG blades the same as a saber grind blade for a long time, then i realized that for me, since i only use the Lansky, it really doesn't matter. I set the clamp up the same every time and my edge comes out scary sharp every time.

[phillipsted]

Fully agree, Evil D. What matters is consistency, not the exact angle. I really don't care about the actual angle on my Para2 clamped in the Top slot at ruler mark A. As long as I can repeat that exact position and get the stones back to the same angle after I've beveled it (whatever that angle is), then I can get it razor sharp again.

I like the WEPS system. I've been sharpening for a lot of years, and this is the first guided system that really worked for me.

TedP

[Kaye]

Hi there! Thank you everyone for your comments! There are many interesting things there!

[SolidState]

Hmm, might be a POS but if I can convince my Mother-In-Law that it will decrease the hanging flab under her arms, she'll buy one and soon stow it next to the other 15 bunblasters, thighdecreasers and such for me pilfer shortly thereafter. No cost to me!

Bwahahaha haha hahaha