Civilian Upgrade

[Blade Santa Cruz]

I love Civilians - for what they were designed for! Any chance of incorporating either or both of the following upgrades?



1) Compression lock to give the user a little edge in security.



2) Talonite Blade - Although not necessarily optimum for some applications, it cuts flesh and fibrous materials (such as cloth and leather) like nothing else.

[sal]

Hi Blades Santa Cruz. Welcome.

The compression lock is not likely in the near future. That would require completely new tooling that would currently be better spent on a new model.

The Civvie will be switching to VG-10. We've not done a great deal of testing pon Talonite, but it has show to be excellent in corrosion resistance and very good on edge retention. I understand that Camillus has an exclusive on the material.

sal


sal



Edited by - sal on 2/23/2002 1:33:03 PM

[Blade Santa Cruz]

Sal,

Thanks for the reply. I was unaware that Camillus had an exclusive; I know several custom makers who are using it, (Kit Carson, for one) but no other factory makers as yet.
The corrosion resistance of the cobalt/chromium material is certainly superior to any stainless steel. This means it would be especially handy as a back-up carried by an LEO, where it would spend lots of time riding in a back pocket in contact with perspiration, etc. and not receive optimum care.

A big drawback would undoubtedly be the price, since Talonite is so expensive. I would imagine other Stellite 6 variations might prove to be good choices, but this would also require significant development $$ which are always in short supply.

By the way, when will VG-10 versions of the Civvie become available? I certainly want one for my collection. <img src="spyder.gif" width=15 height=15 align=middle border=0>

[Pachucko]

Forget the Vg-10 and the C. lock--give me double liners---Pachucks

[Blade Santa Cruz]

Pachucko,

With a G-10 or CF handle, the second liner isn't a must. G-10 and CF are nice structural high-strength laminates on their own. The trade-off in weight savings is worth it to some folks, me included. It's a strong knife for its intended application.

However, I cringe when I see a Matriarch with no liners and a Zytel handle. <img src="spyder.gif" width=15 height=15 align=middle border=0>

[Pachucko]

Respectfully, We'll just have to agree to disagree. I prefer metal to metal contact on three sides for folding knives--the lock, and both handles---Pachucks

[Blade Santa Cruz]

Pachucks,

Sure, that's why these forums are fun. Thanks for chiming in.

In my previous life (before early retirement) I spent over 25 years as a materials scientist working in polymeric materials and composites. I've worked with and developed numerous laminates that achieve specific strengths and stiffnesses that far exceed those of any metal, including steel and titanium. G10 And the CF materials used in <img src="spyder.gif" width=15 height=15 align=middle border=0> knife applications are not the most exotic nor necessarily the strongest of those materials, but they ain't all that bad and sure beat the heck out of metals - in specific applications. And they sure do save weight.

<img src="spyder.gif" width=15 height=15 align=middle border=0> products are very intelligently designed and appear to use composite materials appropriately. I have complete confidence in a Civvie's ability to honk on through leather with a strong slash and not be damaged if used in the manner for which it was designed. Keating's tapes provide striking visual examples of these applications.

I can't say the same for Zytel-type materials, however, and my Matriarch is strictly for my collection.

[Pachucko]

BSC, So what is your opinion of the other FRN Spydies? Specifically, would you be comfortable initiating a &quot;stabbing/thrusting&quot; type motion with the Endura or Delica? Pachucks

[Blade Santa Cruz]

Pachucks,

I am NOT a fan of FRN materials in high load-bearing applications. I've found too many cases where such materials fail prematurely and catastrophically, especially in high humidity environments.

A &quot;Stabbing/Thrusting&quot; type motion, if not a worse-case example, is close to it. Here, bearing strength comes into play which is NOT a forte of FRN.

Since such motions are precluded by a Civvie's design (we're talking slashing here) and the handle material is a decent glass or carbon fiber-reinforced epoxy (G-10 &amp; CF) AND we do have one metal liner as well, I think we're talking a level of over-design I'm comfortable with. <img src="spyder.gif" width=15 height=15 align=middle border=0>

As for the Endura and Delica, the regular versions with stainless steel handles seem just fine, but the lightweights with Zytel...here we're on the same page. They are not the knives for me. However, this is based on my experience with similar materials and should not necessarily be taken as gospel, since they are my opinions only.

[Pachucko]

top, reply later

[Mancer]

I agree with the 2 metal liners, I own 2 g10 civies, they plenty strong enough, yet I adore the weight and feel my chin has with the 2 liners.

I wouldnt mind a lill extra weight and strength.

Just an idea <img src="smile.gif" width=15 height=15 align=middle border=0>

MaNcEr

It's Time To Kick @$$ 'N Chew Bubble Gum

[Pachucko]

Blade S.C., It seems a catastrophic failure of either the Civilian or the Matriarch would have the same results--the back of the blade would strike the back of your hand, as the tip would likely be imbedded in something, you would probably be OK? Don't get me wrong, I do like the Civilian, I just wish it had double liners, I like that &quot;solid&quot; feel, Later---Pachucks

[Blade Santa Cruz]

Pachucks,

I hate to admit, especially on the <img src="spyder.gif" width=15 height=15 align=middle border=0> board, but if I feel the need to carry a serious folder in an area where I probably shouldn't be, that knife will by my Darrel Ralph (5.5 in. dagger blade) Madd Maxx. It definitely has &quot;the solid feel&quot; you mentioned.

[Blade Santa Cruz]

Pachucks,

I hate to admit, especially on the <img src="spyder.gif" width=15 height=15 align=middle border=0> board, but if I feel the need to carry a serious folder in an area where I probably shouldn't be, that knife will by my Darrel Ralph (5.5 in. dagger blade) Madd Maxx. It definitely has &quot;the solid feel&quot; you mentioned.

[Pachucko]

While we're making confessions; I often carry an OCFB (Other-Company-Fixed-Blade) as my primary knife. I want to take a look at a Perrin as soon as I get the chance though---Pachucks