Lowest angle for DMT Aligner?

[chuck_roxas45]

Does anybody know what the lowest bevel angle the DMT aligner has? It's supposed to be 17 degrees at the lowest for 1 inch wide blades but at this setting it's not hitting the whole bevel of a factory edge which is supposed to be around 30 degrees inclusive. It's hitting nearer the edge than at the shoulders of the bevel.

Is this 17 degrees inclusive or per side? Thanks.

[jackknifeh]

Does anybody know what the lowest bevel angle the DMT aligner has? It's supposed to be 17 degrees at the lowest for 1 inch wide blades but at this setting it's not hitting the whole bevel of a factory edge which is supposed to be around 30 degrees inclusive. It's hitting nearer the edge than at the shoulders of the bevel.

Is this 17 degrees inclusive or per side? Thanks.

You may not want to hear what I have to say (just my opinion) but here goes. I used the DMT aligner for about 4 years. Best advice is to set the clamp on fire. Unless you will be satisfied with a very very sharp knife and only sharpen a couple of different knives. Let me explain:

I sharpened several different knives with different blade grinds. The DMT clamp doesn't hold all the knives at a 90 degree angle perpindicular to the line through the two different holes that the guide rod on the stone holder goes through. Also at lower angles that screw that tightens the clamp gets in the way of the stone hitting the edge of the knife. That's the old clamp. They do have a newer one that I never used.

Since the blade is not at a 90 degree angle the result is different angles on each side of the knife. Or at least the edge will be off center of the blade (edge closer to one side of the blade than the other starting to look like a chisel only not that bad). I have an Endura that after putting it in the clamp the blade wiggles back and forth. I have a fixed blade that has a spine that might be considered a false edge where the clamp spits the blade out of it when you clamp down on it. I actually ground flat spots on the blade so the aligner would hold it. Not an acceptable fix but I didn't care on that knife.

There may be work arounds for these problems. DMT make GREAT stones and I still have them. I even rigged on onto the "stone blank" on the Edge Pro that I now have. You can even get DMT diamond stones mounted for an Edge Pro sharpener on a web site that someone on this forum mentioned. Don't remember who. I looked at them and they are expensive but what isn't. Over the 4 alighner years I spent around $55 for the initial kit, then things like a serrated edge sharpener, recurve stone, finer stones, etc. totaling about $120. The Edge Pro setup I bout was $230. That has "everything" you need. Although you can spend more if the need or desire arises. I'm still going to get other things for it in time. For a guy that for most of his life never spent more than $20 for a knife and maybe that for a wet stone these expenses have given me, my checking account and my wife fits. The results are worth it though if a sharp knife is important to you as a profession or hobby. Now guess what? After spending all that on sharpening stuff I want to learn how to sharpen by hand. I've been looking at Murray Carter's knife sharpening DVD lessons and a couple of Japanese waterstones he sells for about $160.

After saying all bad stuff about the aligner clamp let me say this. I wouldn't have migrated to the Edge Pro if I hadn't come into some unexpected money. It had been on a wish list for about a year but I wasn't saving for it. I would still be using the aligner and been reasonably satisfied. My knives were very sharp. So don't set your aligner clamp on fire unless you want to and can afford something else. If I were to do it again I'd go straight to sharpening by hand but these systems that hold the stone and blade at a given angle make it so much easier. Live and learn huh.

One more thing about the aligner clamp. Try clamping the blade just snuggly. Now as you tighten the clamp tight enough that the blade doesn't slide around notice the guide rods are getting farther and farther apart. That increases the bevel angle. Those rods have angles assigned to each notch and I guess they are a good guide but they are far from accurate I think. Really though it doesn't matter what angle number you have as long as you can get the edge to perform how you want it to. You will be able to do that with the aligner just don't worry too much about 20 degrees or 15 or any other number. Very low angles I think are impossible with it though. I think the angles are inclusive also. A nice thing to check when I get my Spyderco edge angle guide. This is one of the things I'm hoping it will help with.

Sorry to be so long winded but thought you might want to know some info. from someone who used the aligner for a good while. Again, everything is just my opinion.

Jack

[chuck_roxas45]

Thanks a lot for the feedback Jack. I am saving up for an edge pro but will have to make do with the aligner fore the moment. I have worked around the clamp and can center on most blades as long as the grinds have some flat spot somewhere near the spine.

What I'd like to know is this though. Assuming a knife is beveled at 30 degrees. If I reprofile it at say 20 degrees, which part of the bevel will a guided system hit first? near the edge or near the shoulders or somewhere near the middle of the bevel?

[wongKI]

DMT has an angle table somewhere. I believe the angle at the lowest setting is 17 degrees for a 1 inch wide blade.

You can certainly go lower, of course.

As to your question, it depends on the shape of a bevel. I assume both numbers you posted are inclusive angles-if it is a V bevel, it will hit the shoulders. If it is convex it may hit near the middle of the bevel.

If you're talking about 20 per side, it'll hit the edge no matter what. Doesn't matter if you're using a guide or free-hand.

[chuck_roxas45]

DMT has an angle table somewhere. I believe the angle at the lowest setting is 17 degrees for a 1 inch wide blade.

You can certainly go lower, of course.

As to your question, it depends on the shape of a bevel. I assume both numbers you posted are inclusive angles-if it is a V bevel, it will hit the shoulders. If it is convex it may hit near the middle of the bevel.

If you're talking about 20 per side, it'll hit the edge no matter what. Doesn't matter if you're using a guide or free-hand.

I'm talking about trying to sharpen at 10 per side. Let's call the middle of the bevel 50 percent, the grind and bevel interface O percent and the edge 100 percent. I'm hitting at around 70-80 percent. Does this mean that I'm actually sharpening at a higher angle than my present bevel?

[jackknifeh]

Thanks a lot for the feedback Jack. I am saving up for an edge pro but will have to make do with the aligner fore the moment. I have worked around the clamp and can center on most blades as long as the grinds have some flat spot somewhere near the spine.

What I'd like to know is this though. Assuming a knife is beveled at 30 degrees. If I reprofile it at say 20 degrees, which part of the bevel will a guided system hit first? near the edge or near the shoulders or somewhere near the middle of the bevel?

If you want to go down on the angle like from 30 to 20 set your sharpener to 20. The stone should be hitting the top “shoulder” of the bevel towards the spine and “thin” the blade as you remove steel. A 10 degree change will be obvious. Use a marker on the edge before you start to see the results immediately.

Jack
PS
Concerning finding a spot on the spine for the clamp: I found the clamp needed to be closer to the tip of the blade, well into the curve of the edge belly. If I put the clamp in the center of the blade or further toward the handle the closer to the tip the stone gets results in a BIG difference in the bevel angle. The angle got LOWER. I like to have a knife I don’t really care about for experimenting with stuff like this. Put the clamp in the center of the blade (as the instructions indicate). After sharpening a knife notice the distance from edge to shoulder of your bevel as you go from the heel of the blade to the tip. The bevel size can get up to twice as wide as on the straight part of the blade. That indicates a lower angle and a thinner blade. You may have a 30 degree angle at the middle of the blade and a 20 degree bevel closer to the tip. Check it out to verify my opinion.

I really wish we could all get on the same page when referencing angles. I feel the need to say 20 degrees per side or 40 degrees inclusive. I guess 40 degrees would have to be inclusive but at the lower angles I get confused unless whoever wrote what I'm reading said per side or inclusive. For instance a 20 degree angle could be per side or inclusive. If the writer doesn't say which I may not know. Is it 20 per side or 10 per side both of which are possible.

[jackknifeh]

Chuck,

One benefit of an Edge Pro is being able to determine the angle of an edge if someone hands you a knife and says “what angle is on my knife?”. That’s assuming of course the angle markings on the Edge Pro are accurate. I’m going to compare them to the edge angle guide when it comes in the mail. Maybe today.

I'M NOT TRYING TO SELL EDGE PRO!!!

I don’t know about you but I may be getting too concerned about angle numbers. I like using them but I’ve been sharpening knives all my life to the point of shaving my arm with nothing but one Arkansas wet stone and never cared about any numbers. I’m glad I know about them now and how to use them but damn! The best thing about them is when communicating with others. If I say 20 degrees you will know what I mean. OOPS, I FORGOT TO SAY “INCLUSIVE”. That was a joke, almost.

Jack

[jackknifeh]

DMT has an angle table somewhere. I believe the angle at the lowest setting is 17 degrees for a 1 inch wide blade.

You can certainly go lower, of course.

As to your question, it depends on the shape of a bevel. I assume both numbers you posted are inclusive angles-if it is a V bevel, it will hit the shoulders. If it is convex it may hit near the middle of the bevel.

If you're talking about 20 per side, it'll hit the edge no matter what. Doesn't matter if you're using a guide or free-hand.

DMT does have a table and the angles have to be inclusive because they do reference a 40 degree angle for hunting/camping knives. I'm sure they don't mean 80 degrees inclusive when referring to a 40 degree angle. They don't mention anything like per side or inclusive.

I talked to the DMT folks on the phone and discussed their aligner clamp once. The guy I talked to understood and was sympathetic. Their clamp is a good tool, just not one of the better ones. Their claim to fame is the diamond stones which I really love. I've used the different type of stones they sell and their dia-paste (liquid sharpening compound) which I used to sharpened a set of chisels that I was about to replace because I couldn't get them like new. They have all kinds of stuff to sharpen everything from a knife to a lawn mower blade to a chainsaw.

wongKI, I liked your use of the terms "per side" and "inclusive". Thank you. Essential terms so we all know what we are talking about.

Jack

[chuck_roxas45]

Thanks Jack, you don't have to sell me an edge pro. I am convinced by the results that I have seen on this and BF.