Kitchen/Camp Knife ?

[Clay Kesting]

Some time ago I started a thread about making Kydex sheaths available for the small kitchen utility knife. This was to enable it to be used as a lightweight camp knife, especially for cooking, a bit like A.G. Russell's Deerhunter. At the time Sal mentioned that the kitchen line was being revamped and that a camping knife was being looked at. Is there any word on changes to the kitchen line and in particular the possibility of camping knife. Please say there is otherwise I'm going to have to break the <img src="spyder.gif" width=15 height=15 align=middle border=0> habit and buy one of AG's Hochos.



Clay



Life's too short to waste on instant coffee.

[yog]

It looks like the Fred Perrin FB and the Lrg Temperance FB would make ideal camp / kitchen knives.

I always thought the Large Calypso would make an ideal folding kitchen knife. The Temperance FB looks to be almost like a Lrg Calypso.

There's a hole in the sky where the rain comes in, it's a very small hole that's why rain's so thin - In memory of the Goons

[Clay Kesting]

Nope, they're too thick for serious cooking, that's why I was thinking of using a small Utility knife. The AG Russell Deerhunter is much admired because it has such a thin blade.

Clay

Life's too short to waste on instant coffee.

[sam the man..]

*hee-hee!* I would like to see a &quot;Santoku Jr&quot; complete with kydex sheath and a teklok as the allrounder camp kitchen knife. Should utilies the AWES<img src="spyder.gif" width=15 height=15 align=middle border=0>ME MBS-26 steel, OAL about 4.5 inches with a comfortable sermollan handle.. Think it will be totally AWES<img src="spyder.gif" width=15 height=15 align=middle border=0>ME!

Sam

have surgical scars will travel..

[Jeff/1911]

Clay,

Isn't the small utility knife fabulous? I use mine every single evening while preparing supper and I marvel at it every time. No kidding. I just can't get over the way this knife cuts...and you're right; the thin blade is at the heart of what does it, I'm sure.

Nice talking to you...Jeff.

[dePaul]

Clay, now that knife is really something! What model would you pick? The AUS 8A or the ATS-34 one?

At the first glance, I was inclined to say: ATS-34. It&#180;s harder and keeps the edge for a slightly longer time.

But then it struck me. If used mostly in connection to cooking, maybe the AUS model is more suitable due to its slightly higher rust resistance? The hardness of this steel (58-59 RC) should be hard enough for most of the kitchen/camping chores anyway.

So what model do you desire?

Speaking of the Fred Perrin Bowie: I&#180;ve used it once for slicing some veggies. It did OK, I guess.

However, as you said: It is a bit on the thick side. So for camping chores, it is OK. For more advanced camping cooking and food preparing, it is a bit too thick.

Rs,
-Paul

Spyderco Collectors Club Member #57

[Clay Kesting]

Paul,

Last time I looked the ATS-34 model was no longer listed, however I think AUS-8A would still be OK especially for a knife which is mainly going to be used for food preparation. The problem with the Deerhunter (and the small Utility for that matter) is that the handle design doesn't allow room for the fingers when slicing on a chopping board. I would prefer something more like the Santoku or A.G.Russell's Hocho. The Coldsteel Hai Hocho is on the right track but it has their terrible serrations. Joe Talmadge designed the Tactical Kitchen Knife which is still being made by Trace Rinaldi. It's shape is perfect for a camp cooking knife although I think Trace's version might be a bit thick for my use. Of course I'd prefer something made by <img src="spyder.gif" width=15 height=15 align=middle border=0> <img src="smile.gif" width=15 height=15 align=middle border=0>.

Clay

Life's too short to waste on instant coffee.

[sam the man..]

Mmmm.. you can't go wrong with a &quot;mini&quot; Santoku... <img src="spyder.gif" width=15 height=15 align=middle border=0><img src="smile.gif" width=15 height=15 align=middle border=0><img src="spyder.gif" width=15 height=15 align=middle border=0>

Sam

have surgical scars will travel..

[Clay Kesting]

I resurrected this thread because I still haven't been able to find a suitable camp cooking knife. I was looking for Samo's &quot;Outdoor Cooking Knife&quot; on the G.Sakai website and found &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.gsakai.co.jp/shop_gsakai2.php&quot;&gt;this page&lt;/a&gt;. Either the &quot;Mini Camp&quot; or the small &quot;Outdoor Cooking Knife&quot; look like the sort of thing I'm looking for. Any chance of &lt;img src=&quot;spyder.gif&quot; width=15 height=15 align=middle border=0&gt; adding one of these, or something similar, to the lineup?

Clay

Life's too short to waste on instant coffee.

Edited by - Clay Kesting on 7/18/2002 5:06:34 AM

[cmassicotte]

Clay,

I have not handled one, but from the looks of it, the Bill Moran FB02 Drop Point seems ideal. I don't know if the 3mm blade thickness is too much. I too am looking for a good camp/BBQ knife. I am looking for a local dealer who has one in stock so I can get a hands on feel of it.

Chuck


There is no right way to do a wrong thing

[Clay Kesting]

G'day Chuck,

I used to own a trailing point Moran. Very nice knife and I really liked the handle shape, however I did find the blade too thick for food prep. I could never slice the onions as thin as I like them. Guess I've just been spoiled by my Santoku <img src="smile.gif" width=15 height=15 align=middle border=0>. This whole idea stared after I got a small utility knife and thought about getting a kydex sheath made for it for camping.

Clay

Life's too short to waste on instant coffee.

[Blades]

Clay,
What about the Fallkniven &quot;Blue Whale&quot; seen
&lt;a href=&quot;http://store.knifecenter.com/pgi-ProductSpec?SWEDK1&quot;&gt;here&lt;/a&gt;?? Or are you looking for something that comes with a sheath??

You could also order the T.K.K. made with a thinner blade, no?? Just wondering. <img src="smile.gif" width=15 height=15 align=middle border=0> Good luck on your search.


Blades

[Joe Talmadge]

The nice thing about the TTKK being made from a custom maker is that you can make custom requests. I don't know if Trace works in thinner stock than 1/8&quot;, but it can't hurt to ask. You can also ask for a longer blade, and ask for the blade profile to change.

The TTKK came out the way it did because, although camp kitchen use is one of the design criteria, I wanted it to be robust and well-rounded enough for much harded camp use as well. Frankly, I think modern kitchen cutlery basically has the idea down pat, and the more &quot;kitcheny&quot; I want to make a knife, the more it would have looked like a classic kitchen knife: thinner stock, less belly on the blade, less curves on the handle.

On the downside, if all you're looking for is a kitchen knife, then the TTKK is kinda on the expensive side <img src="smile.gif" width=15 height=15 align=middle border=0> 'course, you can get an S30V TTKK now!

Joe

[scolby]

Clay, you can get your onions pretty damn thin if you use a chisel-ground blade, even when the blade thickness is double that of the Spyderco Small Utility.

I have a chisel-ground no-name Japanese knife with bamboo handle that I picked up in San Francisco's Japantown. I have no idea what the steel is, but it is approximately 4mm thick, cost me $19, and is an incredible performer. They sell them here for cutting sashimi. With a chisel grind, you can get a perfectly vertical cut, whereas with the v-grind, the fish spreads and the cuts are tapered. Since the art of the cut is very important in this type of service, the chef's here use chisel-grind blades. I find them to be perfect for controlled cutting of all kinds of vegetables.

All of the good secondary market kydex sheathmakers I know of are in North America, so the cost may be prohibitive to you.

P.S.- I used to have an A.G. Russell Hocho, but the handle is truly primitive and very uncomfortable. It is a nice cutter, but at 4.25 inches long, I still find it too short for good cooking prep. I would just use a Military instead.



&quot;Chance favors the prepared mind&quot; - Louis Pasteur

Edited by - scolby on 7/19/2002 10:34:34 AM

[Clay Kesting]

Thanks for the replies fellas. I really like the look of the Falkniven kitchen knives but they are outside my budget (exchange rate is still around US$0.55) and the same applies to the TTKK. The Seki Cut, Glen Waters designed &lt;a href=&quot;http://store.knifecenter.com/pgi-CustomListProducts%3fSEKICUT,2,16,=,se,&amp;,60,=,wate rs,&amp;,157,=,fixed&quot;&gt;Camping Deba&lt;/a&gt; (thicker, but chisel ground as scolby suggested) would also be a possibility if I could afford it. What I'm really hoping is that Spyderco is going to follow through with Sal's original suggestion and add a camping oriented knife to the kitchen line, even if it just involves stocking one of the G.Sakai knives. What do you say folks?

Clay

Life's too short to waste on instant coffee.

Edited by - Clay Kesting on 7/19/2002 3:08:34 PM

[glasshartt]

Clay,

Is your Santuko as magical as mine? Mine turned my white onions into red onions the other day. I was making Beef Stroganouf (sp?) the other day and didn't move my thumb fast enough. Onion juice in a spyderbite is a killer. <img src="sad.gif" width=15 height=15 align=middle border=0>

Linda

<img src="http://www.spyderco.com/forum/spyder.gif" border=O> Integrity is being good even if no-one else is watching <img src="http://www.spyderco.com/forum/spyder.gif" border=O>

[Clay Kesting]

Ouch Linda, that must have hurt. My Santoku hasn't bitten me but it did get my sister-in-law. She was washing up after a party and I did warn her that is was very sharp and not to leave it in the bottom of the sink. Unfortunately she's one of those people who won't be told....maybe she'll believe me next time <img src="smile.gif" width=15 height=15 align=middle border=0>.

Clay

Life's too short to waste on instant coffee.

[Blades]

Clay,
Couldn't you order from G. Sakai?? Or does the exchange still make it expensive?? Just wondering. Good luck on your search. Hopefully Spyderco will import one. <img src="smile.gif" width=15 height=15 align=middle border=0>


Blades

[Clay Kesting]

Blades,

I'm going to try that, problem is the site's all in Japanese and I can't find out any details on the knives or how to order. I'll send them an email and see if I can get any details in English. Otherwise I may settle for a Deerhunter.

Clay

Life's too short to waste on instant coffee.

[Blades]

Good luck Clay. They have to take a Visa/Mastercard, its probably just a matter of translation. <img src="smile.gif" width=15 height=15 align=middle border=0>


Blades

[Blades]

Clay,
What about the Grohmann Bird &amp; Trout &lt;a href=&quot;http://store.knifecenter.com/pgi-ProductSpec?GR2S&quot;&gt;knife&lt;/a&gt;?? Just an idea. <img src="smile.gif" width=15 height=15 align=middle border=0>


Blades

[Clay Kesting]

Blades,

Thanks for the tip, that's a really nice looking knife. I've always liked the look of the Grohmann knives but I hadn't looked at them for a while. The Bird and Trour might just be the way to go.

Clay

Life's too short to waste on instant coffee.

[Clay Kesting]

Blades,

I just found an old Grohmann cattledog that I'd forgotten I had. It lists two &quot;Campers' Knives&quot; that are the same as the #1 &quot;Original&quot; and #2 &quot;Bird and Trout&quot; except that they have a full flat ground blade rather than the chisel grind on the standard #1 and #2. They are starting to look like a pretty good option. I especially like the offset handle as I think it would allow finger clearance between it and the chopping board.

What does the blade shape in this picture of the flat ground #1 remind you of? Suddenly this knife has become irresistable <img src="smile.gif" width=15 height=15 align=middle border=0>.

Take care,
Clay

Life's too short to waste on instant coffee.

Edited by - Clay Kesting on 7/25/2002 4:36:13 AM

[Blades]

Clay,
<img src="smile.gif" width=15 height=15 align=middle border=0> Now that you mention it, it kinda reminds me of the Chinese Folder. LOL!! Maybe the #1 will be the one. I didn't know if the #1 blade would be too thick at 1/8&quot;, but the B&amp;T knife is only 3/32&quot;. Let us know what ya end up with. <img src="smile.gif" width=15 height=15 align=middle border=0>


Blades

[Clay Kesting]

It's a hard choice Blades. I agreee that the thinner blade of the #2 would probably suit me better but then the straighter blade of the #3 &quot;Boat Knife&quot; might work better on a chopping board. Decisions, decisions <img src="smile.gif" width=15 height=15 align=middle border=0>.

Clay

Life's too short to waste on instant coffee.

[cmassicotte]

Clay -

After looking at both of your pics, and going to the Grohmann web site, I empathise with you. What a dilema. My thinking, based only on visuals, is that you are correct, the #3 would be better on a chopping block. And if your primary use was for chopping food, I would say &quot;Go with the #3&quot;. Howver - I think that for all other tasks, slicing, cutting, etc, the #1 would compare very favorably with the #3 as a camp food prep knive. And.... The number one seems more pleasing to the eye and I suspect, to the hand as well.

So, my vote is for the #1.

Next question - what are you thinking in terms of a sheath?

Chuck



There is no right way to do a wrong thing

[Clay Kesting]

Sorry, double tap

Edited by - Clay Kesting on 7/26/2002 12:49:13 AM

[Clay Kesting]

Chuck,

Thanks for the input. I agree, the #1 is certainly more pleasing to the eye. As for sheaths, I like the standard leather sheath. I know kydex is probably more serviceable but I'm afraid my age starts to show here, I just like the look and feel of leather (no wisecracks please <img src="smile.gif" width=15 height=15 align=middle border=0>).

Clay

Life's too short to waste on instant coffee.

[Ted]

Clay,
I always used this knife for camping. It's about 20 years old now.
It's a lock-back and made by Eka (www.eka-knivar.se)
Due to the handle and blade design, it's excellent for preparing food and getting to the bottom of a jar. The blade is fully flat on one side and has a flat grind on the other side.
I don't know that the steel is. It's about 1,5 mm thick.
It has a few design flaws (the blade rests on a pin, so there is a constant chip in the blade), but it's very easy to take apart and to clean.
The sad thing is that Eka doesn't make them anymore. I asked them a year ago and they said that they stopped making it 10 years ago. Maybe someone here knows a place where they still have them. I would also be interested in a backup...

Ted

[Clay Kesting]

I think my search has finallly ended. I'm going to order a G.Sakai Mini Outdoor Cooking Knife from Hamonoichiba. Here is a the description that Naohiko Hasegawa kindly sent me:

Name : Outdoor Cooking Mini with Scale tear
Material of the handle : Soft plastics
Material of the blade : 440 Stainless steel
Full length : 224mm
The length of blade : 110mm
The thickness of blade : 2mm
Weight : 85g
With a leather sheath.
Price : YEN 2,240

It is the smaller of the 2 knives in the attached picture. The other is an outdoor &quot;sashimi&quot; knife. The Japanese sure take their outdoor cooking seriously <img src="smile.gif" width=15 height=15 align=middle border=0>. The D.H.Russell #1 would probably be a better all round camp knife, but I think the Sakai will suit my purpose better. I would prefer a better steel but the 440 (A I assume) will be OK for my use and will be easy to sharpen in the field. The blade is about the same length and thickness as my &lt;img src=&quot;spyder.gif&quot; width=15 height=15 align=middle border=0&gt; Small Utility but a bit wider so it should slice the onions very nicely <img src="smile.gif" width=15 height=15 align=middle border=0>. I'll do a full review when it gets here.

Clay





Life's too short to waste on instant coffee.

Edited by - Clay Kesting on 8/12/2002 1:30:21 AM

[Joe Talmadge]

Looks like a fine choice to me!

[cmassicotte]

G'Day Clay,

Waiting here with &quot;worm in mouth&quot; for that review.

Haven't yet ordered my #1 Camp Knife - somehow a couple more spydies moved up a few notches in my priority list.

Chuck



Edited by - cmassicotte on 8/13/2002 11:17:58 AM

[Clay Kesting]

Thanks Joe. That's very reassuring coming from you as I know you understand the sort of knife I'm looking for.

Chuck, I'm on leave for a few weeks now so I've got a bit of time to get things moving. You shouldn't have to put up with that worm in your mouth for long <img src="smile.gif" width=15 height=15 align=middle border=0>.

Sam, &lt;a href=&quot;HTTP://store.knifecenter.com/pgi-ProductSpec?MM800154&quot;&gt;this one's&lt;/a&gt; for you <img src="smile.gif" width=15 height=15 align=middle border=0>.

Clay

Life's too short to waste on instant coffee.