Delica Hollow or Flat ground whaddayathink?

[Mr Blonde]

Today I received a serrated blue Delica, with ATS55 steel AND a flat grind. I thought that only the VG10 Delicas would feature a flat grind?



What do you all think about this flat grind (or is this a saber grind?) on the Delica versus the older hollow grind? What problems were solved by moving from a hollow to flat grind in the Delica, tip breakage perhaps?



thanx,



Wouter



"I wear a wristwatch whether or not I have an appointment to keep, and I carry a pen and/or pencil because I am a literate person whether or not I have a specific writing task ahead of me, and I carry a knife because I am a human and not an ape." - James Mattis

[liko]

Are you sure it's both? If it's ATS-55, is should be hollow saber ground. If the steel is VG-10, it'll have a flat saber grind. Look at the knife point-on, and you should see a slight concave shape to the grind of the knife approaching the edge. A flat saber grind looks similar, but the initial bevel moving down toward the edge has no curve at all to it. A full flat grind means the bevel grind from the edge continues all the way up to the top of the blade.

The two saber grinds look very similar, and it can be difficult to tell at first.

Wise man say, forgiveness is divine. Remember that when your <img src="http://www.spyderco.com/forum/spyder.gif" border=0> bites you!

[judge]

The new VG-10s are flat ground? YESS! I love flat ground blades.
Does anyone know if the new Endura is also flat ground?

[sam the man..]

flat ground! now that's really SWEET! <img src="smile.gif" width=15 height=15 align=middle border=0>

Sam

have bone implant will travel..

[tique]

Wait a minute guys... the new ones are flat SABER grind, not a full flat grind... not as cool as it initially sounds<img src="sad.gif" width=15 height=15 align=middle border=0>

[judge]

Could you please define &quot;flat saber ground&quot; for me? Is this a slightly convex grind, or something else?
Thanks in advance.

[Brian]

Huh?

[tique]

Okay, my bad.... sorry if I jumped up the vocab. It's not any kind of convex grind, it's still a flat grind.
When you look at a Military, the blade is a full flat grind, the grind goes from the edge all the way to the top of the blade.
When you look at a Delica, either old or new, you see that the grind stops half way up. When the grind stops halfway up like that it is refered to as a saber grind, you can have a hollow or flat saber grind, in this case they changed from hollow to flat.

Hope that helps explain it a little bit... the saber flat grind ends up with a thicker edge geometry than an identical full flat ground blade. If you still have questions, be sure to ask, myself or one of the other well knowing folks around here will be sure to help, I can probably come up with a little graphic illustration if you'd like<img src="smile.gif" width=15 height=15 align=middle border=0>

[dialex]

To Tique:

I'd definitely appreciate some ilustrations... please, pretty please <img src="smile.gif" width=15 height=15 align=middle border=0>

[tique]

My sincere appologies for the crayon like image that is posted<img src="smile.gif" width=15 height=15 align=middle border=0> Best I could do for the time being, my nice 3D modeling program died a while back and I've been too lazy/busy with other stuff to get it back up and running. So... it was off to MS paint for a quick and dirty job of illustrating, but I think it expresses the general idea, and should help y'all out. If not, let me know and I'll get on the phone with the software company and see if I can get stuff fixed, then have pretty solid modeled images in a week or so.

I basically did a quick view of the cross section of a blade of each type... there's a better pic on some website somewhere, but I don't remember where I saw it<img src="sad.gif" width=15 height=15 align=middle border=0> The one on the left is a saber flat grind, the one in the middle is a saber hollow grind, and the one on the right is a full flat grind.


Edited by - tique on 5/1/2002 3:20:53 PM

[tique]

double tap and still no image??? workin on it.

As you can see the saber flat grind gives the thickest edge of all of them, which means its stonger, but not as nice a cutter as the others.

Edited by - tique on 5/1/2002 3:09:58 PM

[tique]

Maybe?

[tique]

...

[tique]

:Throws up hands while expressing mild profanity: Don't know what I'm doin y'all... do I have to have it hosted on a webpage? I thought I could upload it... oh well

Edited by - tique on 5/1/2002 3:26:53 PM

[KBR]

I'm happy with my Delica flat-ground Spyderedge.
Sal, suggests in the 204 instruction video, to sharpen a flat grind on both sides with the 40 degree option. This provides a stronger edge.

Survive, Adapt, and Overcome...

[Mr Blonde]

I examined my Delica up and down left and right, compared it with my hollow ground plain edged blue Delica. I am sure my ATS55 serrated blue Delica is saber flat ground (not fully a la Military, more like Benchmade does it). Why the switch in blade grind?

Wouter

[dialex]

To the webmaster: Do something and fix the bug that prevents pictures from appearing!

[Jeff/1911]

Tique,

That is an excellent description of the grind types. I sympathise with you about the picture posting problem. I also find it extremely frustrating.

Jeff/1911.

[judge]

Got it from the description, but tique thanks alot for the pic posting efforts. Strange it doesn&#180;t work, but this seems to be a regular problem.

[mgebhard]

GRINDS

1) HOLLOW GRIND
the most common grind, found on the majority of custom and production pieces. Hollow ground blades have a thin edge that continues upwards, and is the grind is produced on both sides of the blade. Since the cutting edge is relatively thin, there is very little drag when cutting. Examples of knives with hollow ground blades: Spyderco Howard Viele C42 and Kershaw Ti-ATS-34.

2) FLAT GRIND
Flat grinds are characterized by the tapering of the blade from the spine down to the cutting edge. This style of grind is also referred to as a "V" grind, since the cross section of this grind resembles that letter. The chisel grind, a popular style for tactical blades, is a variation of the flat grind. On a chisel round blade, it is ground on one side, and on the other it is not. These blades are easier to sharpen, because you sharpen one side only. Example of a knife with a chisel ground blade would be the Benchmade 970 Ernest Emerson CQC7. Examples of knives with a flat grind are the Benchmade Mel Pardue 850 and Spyderco's C36 Military model.

3) CONCAVE GRIND
Similar to the flat grind in that the blade tapers from the spine to the cutting edge, except the taper lines are arcs instead of straight lines.

4) CONVEX GRIND
Similar to the flat grind in that the blade tapers from the spine to the cutting edge, except the taper lines are arcs extending outward instead of inward as in the convex grind above or straight lines. If you picture a pumpkin seed, you will get a good idea of what the cross sectional view of this grind is like. Noted custom knife maker Bill Moran is credited for bringing the convex grind into the focus of knife making.
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[David Lowry]

..bunch of words and stuff...

WARNING this thread is about 8 years old and no longer really applies to the current Delica model.

[LowTEC]

good job bringing up and antique post from the grave :P