Yet more on clip position.

[Carlos]

My obsession with clip position continues, and I thought of a more whollistic way to analyse it. Numbers are taken from the current brochure plus the current and unadvertised MBC's (live) and LEO's. Didn't count sprint runs.



Tip down:

21 Total



FRN: 2

Steel: 6

Al: 1

Micarta: 4

G10: 8





Tip-up:

18 total



FRN: 13

Steel: 3

Al: 1

Micarta: 0

G10: 1





Convertibles:

3 Total



Steel: 2

Titanium: 1





What makes it interesting is that the total numbers of tip-down and tip-up are almost on par, but that the low-cost lightweights are dominated by tip-up, and the high-end laminates in turn by tip-down (this includes all of the CF knives ever produced by Spyderco, which aren't included above).



(This explains why I've grumbling so much about the lack of higher-end tip-up Clipits. Of course the future looks brighter: Hooray for the G10 Lum Tanto, Lum Chinese, and ATR!)



I am curious as to how this split developed. The prevelance of tip-up FRN's is probably related to the design of the ambidextrous clip with integral laynard hole, but why did the high-end (mostly custom collabs) laminate models become the sole domain of tip-down? Custom designer preference?



Edited by - Carlos on 11/30/00 3:26:27 PM

[Hojo]

Carlos,
This doesn't really answer your question but the following is what Sal said a while back in the forum concerning the clip orientation on Endura/Delica models.

"we knew that the lower price would make the knife more popular.

Our concern was having a bunch of kids doing quick draw drop openings, either in public giving perhaps a less than desirable image). or...

the tip up draw is more easily executed. A drop opening requires some practice. We didn't want kids throwing them down into their foot. Also the lighter models require considerably more force to snap the lighter handle down. More than I felt was safe for beginners.

sal"

[cerulean]

Hmm.. interesting statistics, Carlos.

It used to be that a lot of Zytel or FRN handled folders had an integral clip. The clip wasn't steel, but made of the same piece of molded plastic as the rest of the handle. These kinds of clips had to be in a tip up position; the clip can't cover the pivot because it can't be removed when the pin is installed. You could have a molded clip tip down, but it would have to be below the pivot joint.

The molded clip is inexpensive to produce, but it sometimes breaks off, and the owner can't easily repair it. You saw a lot of companies replace their models that had molded clips with steel ones. The new steel clips were also in a tip up position to preserve some continuity. If the clip position on someone's favorite knife suddenly changed, people would go crazy!

It's also true that the great idea of installing a clip through the lanyard hole only works with tip up. And that's probably a pretty inexpensive way to set up the clip.

So, if you combine this explanation with Sal's explanation that Hojo quoted, it seems like there are good reasons for having the inexpensive knives tip up. Why are so many high-end knives tip down? Probably just for balance. If both the inexpensive knives and the high-end knives were mostly tip up, you wouldn't have any room in the lineup for tip down knives!

[Carlos]

Hi guys,

Thanks for all of the additional data.

For what its worth I think that most of the high-end laminates should be convertible from tip-down to tip-up. With the special clip it may be more cost efficient to have the FRN's mostly tip-up, but with G10 and such we are already paying more so why not drill the extra holes?

Of course Spyderco is now moving towards more specialized and nested clips, which means that convertibility will actually become less likely, but it looks like a slightly larger proportion of the high-end models will be tip-up in the future (not less tip-downs, but more SKUs overall).

One more data point: The Dragonfly as you know is tip-up in both its ss and frn forms. When I heard that there was a CF version I got excited that there may finally be a single tip-up CF Spyderco for me to buy -- all others were tip-down. Once I did find it I found that the CF version had been switched to tip-down. You should have seen me beating my head against the wall over that one! LOL

This is what got me thinking that there is more to this than "balance." Likewise of all of micarta models ever produced by Spyderco, I think the Jess Horn was the only one that was tip-up -- now, not even one is.

Actually I have info on one: Bob &quot;T&quot; makes his own knives tip-up, and wanted the Starmate to be likewise, but someone <img src="wink.gif" width=15 height=15 align=middle> at Spyderco convinced him to make it tip-down for &quot;the drop&quot; opening technique. Is what happened with all of the others?

Edited by - Carlos on 12/1/00 11:35:59 AM

[afee]

I have to admit, I'm a tip up lover, tried and true. Yes, even with linerlocks. When Mr. Chinook arrives in the next day or two, I might just have to drag him over to the drill press. We'll see. I really don't like to make mods on better folders, but sometimes its the only way to make it &quot;right&quot; for me. Considering this is a lockback, it would have been nice to make it convertable (I hear that might be in the works). Maybe mine already is! I'll just have to wait and see. Another plus for the Lum Ti. Next on the list, but not for a bit (maybe Spyderco will have a sale run when the G10's come out!).
E