Matriarch, Strength?

[Razor]

Would the matriarch lock be as strong as the civilian? Also, does anyone know where I could purchase a matriarch?

Thanks all

[Sword and Shield]

I believe the lock strength is nearly the same. You can get one here, or at eknifeowrks.com. Eknifeworks is usually cheaper.

Keepin' it real...real sharp, that is.

[Blade Santa Cruz]

With a single liner/G10 system with the Civilian and no liner/FRP with the Matriarch, you can bet that the Civilian is a LOT stronger and reliable. By comparison, the Matriarch is "use once and throw away" - if you're lucky. Otherwise it's "use once-Matriarch fails-you're dead."

[Pachucko]

BSC, Imagine what the failure of a Matriarch would be like. I'm assuming the user would not be injured (at least not by the Matriarch) because its used in a slashing manner. I'm envisioning a pretty nasty rip on whatever you're cutting with the blade getting stuck. What do you think?
Pachucks

[Blade Santa Cruz]

Pachucks,

I have to agree. Which, I guess, is okay for a throw-away knife vs one BG. The damage I'd consider as potentially deadly would come from one mighty Pi$$ed-Off BG and/or his buddies AFTER the failure. But, I guess, if a lone BG received a vcious slash, was bleeding like a stuck pig and had a Matriarch blade sticking out of his knee, he might have other things on his mind than stomping your a$$.

[4 s ter]

I'm sure that even if the tip on the Matriarch did break you'd still be left with a lot of very nasty blade. I wouldn't worry about the Matriarch lock since it's virtually identical to the Endura.

"Not all who wander are lost"

[Blade Santa Cruz]

I worry A LOT about the lock. Why? Because of the stiffness modulus of elasticity of FRP which allows the handle to deflect and distort, thereby allowing significant out-of-plane loads to occur. This can potentially result in catastrophic and unpredictable failure. Another factor is that the reinforcment and stiffness enhancement provided by the Civilian's liner is lacking in the Matriarch. A final factor is the questionable security of a mounting system based on small screws imbedded in a relatively weak material (FRP), particularly when heavy out-of-plane loads are applied.

The blade design has little or nothing to do with these issues, as it is so similar with these two knives. The question is NOT the tip breaking, it's the knife coming apart when a heavy load or shock is encountered. The materials and design improvements in the Civilian over the Matriarch account for the difference in price between the two. You're NOT getting something for nothing by choosing a Matriarch, you're just significantly reducing your chances of surviving.

However, those who choose either knife so they can flash it around and look cool stand a reasonable chance of getting into far more trouble than either knife could get them out of.

[4 s ter]

BSC

I agree that the Civilian is superior in construction to the FRN Matriarch. However, in my opinion, catastrophic failure of the Matriarch (lock or handle) is far from a certainty. If the design or materials were so deficient, I'm sure we would be hearing about regular failures of the Endura, many of which are subjected to relatively heavy use. However, failures of the FRN Endura are far from common so I feel relatively confident in my FRN Matriarch which shares the same lock and handle. My opinion and reasoning only - your mileage may vary <img src="smile.gif" width=15 height=15 align=middle border=0>

"Not all who wander are lost"

[Blade Santa Cruz]

We're talking a whole different set of loads in the typical use for an Endura vs a Matriarch. Fortunately, the Matriarch doesn't need to be &quot;used as intended and designed&quot; very often; neither is the Endura put to that use very frequently. Our feedback on any RFP knife for SD is fortunately quite low. (The survival of the user could play a part in those numbers.)

And failure is, as you stated, &quot;far from a certainly&quot; but is certainly far more likely with a Matriarch than with a Civilian. I guess it all depends on how much you value your life. Is it worth the extra $75.00?

[Pachucko]

I saw this sort of failure with an Endura about four years ago. My friend and I stared in amazement at the out of position blade for a couple of seconds, he then just &quot;popped&quot; it back into position. I wish we had had the presence of mind to take a closer look at it before &quot;fixing&quot; it.
Re. &quot;flash it around and look cool,&quot; I sold my FRN &quot;collection&quot; not too long ago with the intention of upgrading to VG-10 blades as the various models were introduced. The Delicas/Enduras went first, more practical (and cheaper!). My coworkers liked the Merlin. But the Matriarch, everyone wanted to hold it. It caused that funny look in the eyes. Interesting. The same guy bought the Merlin and the Matriarch, go figure. He later told me he decided to give one to his son, guess which one the son chose!
Pachucks

[AllenETreat]

Hey Razor :

I don't know about lock strength, but you can
get a Matriarch for $48.99 + $6.00 shipping from One Stop Knife Shop ( www.1sks.com <img src="wink.gif" width=15 height=15 align=middle border=0>)

ATE <img src="wink.gif" width=15 height=15 align=middle border=0>

[hawkbill]

Currently there is an extra-large Harpy design in the works, intended to use the same Endura/Matriarch FRN handle system. This will undoubtedly be a dual-purpose knife, made for working as well as emergency applications. However, the longer Harpy shape may tempt some to misuse the blade (prying or twisting force) almost as much as the Endura might. Is your contention of lock/pivot failure based upon the straight line cutting or thrusting hitting a hard object and causing this deflection? I could imagine this being a likely outcome trying to apply high amounts of lateral-pressure to the knife...

[Pachucko]

You would think an extra large Harpy/Merlin would rate a handle of G-10 with steel liners. This sounds like a hard-use knife! It deserves hard-use scales! Who agrees with me.
Pachucks

[Blade Santa Cruz]

Hawkbill &amp; Pachucks,

My impression was that the Spyderhawk initial run was going to be a very limited number of pieces to test the market. The Endura-style FRN handle would enable this small run to be put out in a relatively short time at a reasonable cost and would not necessarily be indicative of the final developed knife. I hope that is, in fact, the plan.

Pachucks, I agree with you completely. In fact, I'd be very leery of the &quot;lightweight&quot; initial version when put to hard use. Of course, if you want to pick up the early version for a collection of <img src="spyder.gif" width=15 height=15 align=middle border=0> hawkbills, it would make sense.

[hawkbill]

I certainly hope the INITIAL run of SpyderHawks get snapped-up by those who have already spoken up on the BF side...and ultimately that the G-10 scale version be introduced (especially if the standard Mar-McBurnett lock can be maintained).