Reverse S-curves for utility.

[Carlos]

Like most knife knuts I find the reverse S-curve grind of the Civilian and Matriarch to be fascinating. I've noted that Spyderco has adapted the basic blade style for utility use on two smaller knives -- the Cricket and the forthcoming Meerkat.



Any thoughts on this blade shape for larger utility knives? (Say around 3.25" to 3.5" blade.) The dropped, turned-down tip looks like it would give great point control for precise cutting, the initial harpy-like curve should give very aggressive ripping pull-cut performance, and the belly should serve for more conventional slicing and push-cuts. Of course one would want to go closer to the Cricket style, with a less extremely dropped point, and with a thicker more durable grind like the Harpy.



I think something like that might make a better all-around utility piece that the uber-Harpy called for on Bladeforums recently. I do wonder however, if something of that size wouldn't have too much "sheeple stampede factor" like the Civilian and Matriarch. Is this why we've seen the utility versions only in the 2" blade class?



Opinions?







BTW Sal, will the next run of Matriarchs get the David Boye style cut-out on the lock lever? (You'll be happy to know that a friend of mine in the LAPD will be getting one.)

[sal]

Hi Carlos. The "reverse S" blade shape does offer the exact reasons you mention in "utility" form. We will be checking it out on the Meerkat very closely to determine ELU reaction. If the reaction is good, then you'll probably see them on more models in the future, at least my own designs.

sal

[Carlos]

Hi Sal,

I guess I'll have to add the Meerkat to my nightly prayers then. <img src="wink.gif" width=15 height=15 align=middle>

If you ever do make larger variants, then don't forget to make one tip-up for poor Carlos. <img src="smile.gif" width=15 height=15 align=middle>

[sal]

Hi Carlos. Actually tip up is preferred by the most customers.

sal

[Carlos]

Hi Sal, I'm just ribbing you. <img src="smile.gif" width=15 height=15 align=middle>

Actually there is a thread that you probably missed when you were travelling on the distibution of clip positions on current production Spydercos. Here was my original post:

&quot;My obsession with clip position continues, and I thought of a more whollistic way to analyse it. Numbers are taken from the current brochure plus the current and unadvertised MBC's (live) and LEO's. Didn't count sprint runs.

Tip down:
21 Total

FRN: 2
Steel: 6
Al: 1
Micarta: 4
G10: 8


Tip-up:
18 total

FRN: 13
Steel: 3
Al: 1
Micarta: 0
G10: 1


Convertibles:
3 Total

Steel: 2
Titanium: 1


What makes it interesting is that the total numbers of tip-down and tip-up are almost on par, but that the low-cost lightweights are dominated by tip-up, and the high-end laminates in turn by tip-down (this includes all of the CF knives ever produced by Spyderco, which aren't included above).

(This explains why I've grumbling so much about the lack of higher-end tip-up Clipits. Of course the future looks brighter: Hooray for the G10 Lum Tanto, Lum Chinese, and ATR!)

I am curious as to how this split developed. The prevelance of tip-up FRN's is probably related to the design of the ambidextrous clip with integral laynard hole, but why did the high-end (mostly custom collabs) laminate models become the sole domain of tip-down? Custom designer preference?&quot;

BTW, I was going to save this request for another day, but since I've already brought up the topic: The Shabaria has a regular three-hole clip rather than one of the dedicatd pivot clips, would it be possible in a future run to have it drilled and tapped
for both tip-up/tip-down carry. I really like that knife.

[Joe Talmadge]

If I can inject my theory here, which is strongly colored by my views on liner locks of course...

One of the big reasons tip-down became very popular on high-end knives, is because most high-end knives are liner locks. The liner lock is held closed not by spring pressure of any sort, but by the ball detent system. It is extremely difficult to get this system just right every time. There were lots of reports of people's tip-up liner locks opening up in their pockets in the early days (NOT Spydercos -- I'm speaking generally, and including customs), and as a result people cutting themselves upon reaching into their pockets.

As a result, in general (again, I don't know Spyderco's specific reasons), the feeling among makers now is that liner locks should usually be tip-down. Me, I just think most makers should pay much more attention to the ball detent -- it seems to be considered an afterthought by many makers, unfortunately. I feel it's an essential safety feature. The ball detent, when done just right, should actually give similar results as a spring. That is, when the blade is close to closed, it should suck the blade the rest of the way in. I would feel comfortable with tip-up liner locks (or compression locks), if the ball-detent was well-done.

Joe

[Carlos]

Hi Joe,

Here is another curious data point:

All of the carbon fiber Clipits ever produced by Spyderco have been tip-down. This even includes one model, the Dragonfly, which is normally tip-up in its FRN and steel versions, as well as every CF prototype that we (ELU) know of.

1. Michael Walker
2. Ladybug (no clip)
3. Dragonfly
4. Cricket
5. Civilian (on its way)
6. Known prototypes only: Military, Police, Calypso Jr., D'Holder, CoPilot, and Navigator.

What makes this interesting is that only two of the four production models (with clips)were linerlocks (and small ones at that), and only 2 of the 6 known protoypes were linerlocks. So what is going on here? A vast tip-down conspiracy? <img src="wink.gif" width=15 height=15 align=middle>

Edited by - Carlos on 12/19/00 12:01:56 AM

[Joe Talmadge]

Definitely! A vast tip-down conspiracy. The illuminati are not doubt involved.

Okay, when it comes to Spyderco, the tip up vs. tip down has another factor. With tip down, you can do the cool drop-opening that many users like. You can't do that opening with tip-up. So, for Spyderco in particular, they've tended to favor tip-down because of the drop opening. Of course, the dragonfly and a few others on your list are too small and light for drop-opening, so that's still not the whole story.