ats-34 vs cpm-440 v

[canis]

cpm-440v must be the new standard !

if u disagree try to find any arguments !!

P.S.just after cpm-440 v i'll choose aus-8, and u ?

[tique]

I would have to agree that 440V should be the new standard. But I am also partial to the VG-10 in my Fällkniven neck knife that I recently acquired. It is some impressive stuff. I am getting a Viele in it to play with fairly soon. I would have to say that VG-10, then 154-CM would be my choices for second and third. I have had several good experiences with 154-CM. However, these would probably be the standards for the higher end models as they tend to be a bit more costly to purchase and grind than some others. I have yet to see what the steels above 440V would be though, 420V and 3V show good promise from what I have seen.

[sal]

Hi Canis. Welcome to the forum.

CPM440V is probably the standard for production knives at this time.

Last week it was ATS-34, 2 weeks ago, Gin1, Next week, who knows. Such is the nature of progress.

Other excellent production steels & non steels? (Titanium, Cobalt) Depends on your personal preferences, each offers different features. "All good, just different".

sal

[AncientSUL]

Why 440V??? I have use it in my Starmate and the Kershaw Random task. Now I must say it is extremely sharp out of the box. And it does stay sharp for a long time. But it is too brittle. The steel is hard and you cannot cut in to hard surfaces. Yes I did it by accident and there is a small chip in it. I find nothing wrong with ATS-34 or 55 and BG-42. There are lots or steels out there and a lot of people have there preferences. I guess we should buy what we like.

Liong

[RDT]

CPM steel sucks !, it chips because it's just too damn brittle. I just tried another CPM 440 v knife and all I did was try a cutting test on a roll of toilet paper. The damned thing went all the way through (which is the good thing as CPM is real sharp !) but it hit the plastic holder which by the way is pretty soft and chipped the blade. I belive the RC was 60 ? maybe 61. This should just not happed. I'll take Ats 34 and 154 cm over CPM 440v anyday as they are just about right. However I'll take BG 42 over anyother blade steel anyday as it seems to be best all around (edge retention,hardnessetc.) Spyderco makes graet stuff,excellent in fact but they should stay away from CPM until the process can be perfected. The VG 10 is a better choice as well good stuff). What do you think ?, take care.....RDT

[Joe Talmadge]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size=1 face=arial>quote:<hr height=1 noshade>CPM steel sucks !, it chips because it's just too damn brittle. <hr height=1 noshade></BLOCKQUOTE></font><font face='Verdana, Arial, Helvetica' size=2>

Weird thing about 440V is that I don't think I've ever seen such a wide disparity of opinions on a steel. I've seen everything from &quot;it holds an edge forever and is plenty tough&quot; to &quot;it holds an edge no better than my ATS-34 and chips if you look at it crosswise&quot;. Part of the reason for this is that different manufacturers heat treat their 440V differently, and I think some of them heat treat it as hard as their ATS-34, which is where the worst 440V toughness problems happen. Even within the Spyderco line itself, 440V used to be harder and less tough; now it's being heat treated a point or two softer, and I don't recall seeing any specific toughness objections about it as currently heat treated. The steel is a little weaker down at 56 Rc though.

Joe

[sal]

Hi RDT. As Joe mentioned, heat treat of CPM-440V is critical and very different from ingot steels. In our experience Rc60 is too hard for the material.

We found greater edge retention and toughness as a lower Rc.

In our testing, CPM440V retains an edge considerably longer (50-100%) than ATS-34, AUS-8, etc., even at the lower Rc.

BG42 was about the best ingot steel we tested, again, properly heat treated.

sal

[Marc]

I find this discussion very interesting. I am writing this opinon based strictly on user experience and not on rigorous scientific testing, however I have a very hard time believing that a knife that chips on a toilet paper roll has the same steel as the 440v models I have been using for the last two years. Of the knives I have that get hard use three are 440v models (Blue Native, Military, and FRN Native). The only chip I have had is to the tip of the Military. It was so small that I got it out with the 204 sharpner by myself. At the time I was cutting out vegetation from an active wildland fire. They were woody bushes about 1/2&quot; to 1&quot; in diameter, and I may have gotten the chip from striking a rock. I can't be sure about that. I also once used the FRN Native to cut out grout from between bricks all day. It did not chip. It was dull enough that I had Spyderco sharpen it (I live close by), but I was frankly impressed with its durability. The 440v models I have been using also hold an edge noticeably longer than my ATS34 and ATS55 models under heavy field use. Perhaps there is a high degree of variability in this steel's brittleness. If so; I am certainly beating the odds with all three of these pieces, but I don't think so.

Marc

Edited by - Marc on 1/24/2001 6:54:15 AM

[sal]

Since our (humans) experience with this new steel is new, it is difficult to say absolutely this or that. I would have a difficult time saying it sucks.

There is no question that CPM440V had greater edge retention than most ingot steels by almost double in most cases. The only brittleness we've experienced is when we make it harder than Rc56. Edge retention is ok, but about on a par to most ingot steels.

In production steels, I would put CPM440V, BG42, MBS26 and VG10 as my top choices, at this time.

Please keep in mind that processing of any material is ctritical and not the same from company to company. Some say they don't like serrations because they used one particular company's teeth. That is not realistic.

Some commpanies do know more than others. Some companies do care more than others. Some companies make good products, IMO, most just make money. The product is based on the needs of the bottom line rather than the needs of the product or customer.

sal