Training specifically for the Massad Ayoob

[bladestorm]

Dear all,



First off, I'm a totally new to this forum (having lurked around for a bit), and to knives in general, so I just wanted to say hello to everyone.



Second, I just wanted to tell everyone that I've finally done it - I ordered a Massad Ayoob and am waiting in great anticipation for it to arrive. But with that anticipation, I also recognize that one needs to be extremely careful with a blade like the one I just ordered and that training in the handling and use of such a blade is paramount. To that end, I'm wondering if there are specific MBC techniques of training, handling and usage that apply specifically to the Massad Ayoob (what with it's different grip and all). What steps towards becoming proficient in a blade like the Ayoob would be recommended? Is there a training drone for the Massad Ayoob?



I'm really looking forward to being a part of this thriving community of Spyderco owners and hope to learn from and perhaps contribute to this community.



Thanks!

[Mr.Skin]

Hey bladestorm,

Welcome aboard. There are no specific techniques for the Ayood in the MBC system Mike teaches. Sadly (at this time) there is no training blade for Ayood. My best suggestions are. 1) Go to MBC classes either in Golden, CO or one of Mike’s off site sessions. 2) Get yourself a Delica trainer & live blade (Plain edge or 50/50) and some of Mike’s training materials, videos, books or both. Work the stuff with the trainer and carry the Delica (live blade). Once you’re comfortable with the Delica switch to or add Ayood to you EDC.

If you’re good with tools make yourself an Ayood trainer (non-folding) or get someone on-line to make you one. This will at least get you use to handling the open blade with its unique angle. But, this won’t help you with the draw stroke & opening (something not to be over looked).

Hopefully you got a second generation Ayood as the first one’s handles were very slick.

Whatever you do TRAIN SAFELY.


Gavin D.

Edited by - Mr.Skin on 12/27/2002 10:35:13 AM

[MercuryHayze]

Hey Bladestorm, welcom to the forum.

I'd recomend you just take some time to feel out the knife before you begin any kind of specific training with it.
Spyderco is the top of the line.

Happy holidays

Fear is the mind killer

[Rex G]

The Masters of Defense tape available from Paladin Press has some good instruction from Massad Ayoob. The tape predates the Spyderco Ayoob knife, but the knife used in the tape, the Razorback, has some similarities. His explanation of the characteristics of the Razorback will help you understand the Spyderco version. It is not meant as a complete course, but there is self-defense gold in the tape, including stuff from Michael Janich, James Keating, and Graciela Casillas. Welcome to the forum!

Edited by - Rex G on 12/27/2002 7:50:29 PM

Edited by - Rex G on 12/27/2002 7:52:10 PM

[bladestorm]

Thanks for all your replies! I'm really looking forward to receiving the blade. Will keep you guys in the loop.

[bladestorm]

edited

Edited by - bladestorm on 12/28/2002 1:12:08 AM

[mr. v]

Hi Bladestorm--

Welcome to the MBC Forum.

The path to 'Proficiency in a blade like the Ayoob', as with any other blade, should include quality instruction and quality practice. Unless you have access to Mr. Ayoob himself you'll probably not find a training program designed specifically for that knife. That just makes it all the more important that you use your personal practice time (in-class and outside of class) to take what you learn from classes, seminars, and videos and work it with the Ayoob to explore its unique characteristics.

Spyderco does not make a trainer version of that model, so your best option is to get a second live blade and grind down the edge and tip for safety (a plainedge blade, if available, is much simpler to turn into a trainer, by the way--less material to remove from the edge). This will give you a practice knife that's identical to your carry knife in size, shape, weight, balance, texture, carry, opening, etc.

The most radical part of the Ayoob design is the blade angle relative to the handle, obviously, so the biggest thing to get used to will probably be getting a feel for the different indexing. That is, you'll align & move your hand differently to put the blade on target. Compared to a straighter knife the Ayoob's edge will seem to get to the target a little earlier (in the case of a cut) or the tip will be a little lower (in the case of a thrust). Specific practice will give you a feel for how you need/want to move with that particular knife.

Keep us posted on how your training goes. . .soon you'll be telling US about how to be proficient with the Ayoob!

Vince

"The strength of the pack is the wolf, and the strength of the wolf is the pack."--R. Kipling

[SpydercoKnut]

I would like to welcome you to the Forums Sir! I'm a proud owner of a Massod Ayoob Folder. It's a little different from other folders and it's not for small hands. I too would love to get some hands on training with mine as well. I hope you like your knife and I honestly think you will enjoy it.

[Michael Janich]

Dear Bladestorm:

Wecome to the MBC forum! Thanks to the responses of the other forumites, you should be well on your way to developing a training plan with your Ayoob folder. Once again, the folks on this forum came through in style.

One thing to consider if you happen to have one of the older, slicker Ayoob models (or any other metal-handled Spyderco model that you wish had a little more &quot;traction&quot<img src="wink.gif" width=15 height=15 align=middle border=0> -- go down to the hardware store and buy some of the rubberized adhesive tape that is used on the floors of showers and bathtubs to provide traction. Lay your open knife on a piece of paper, clip up, and trace the outline of the handle on the paper. Then cut out the outline and gradually trim away the edges until you have a panel that fits one the handle with a margin all the way around. Use the paper as a template to transfer the outline to the rubber grip tape and cut it out. Clean the flat handle scale with alcohol to remove any skin oils and stick the panel in place.

I learned this trick from one of my private students who has been a knife geek even longer than I have (apparently he also never slips in his shower). I've found that this modification greatly increases the grip and feel of metal-handled knives and is easier on your hands and pockets than skateboard tape. Do not put it on the clip side of the handle, however, since it will bind during a draw.

Thanks again to everyone who responded to this thread. Happy training, Bladestorm!

Stay safe,

mike j

[bladestorm]

Once again, I'd like to thank all of you for your comments and suggestions - they have been very helpful and insightful. You guys are simply incredible <img src="smile.gif" width=15 height=15 align=middle border=0>. Mike, thanks for your &quot;traction&quot; advice - I do hope I get one of the newer models, though.

Will be keeping all of you in the loop.

[C Carlson]

All;
FYI there is a material that is soft rubber w/ an adheasive backing that would work well, as well - if you want to have a &quot;rubberized&quot; feel/material on your knife. You can get it in the electrical section of the big home improvement stores, it's used for re-insulating splices to large gauge wire/cable. The stuff is almost sticky as it is intended to be waterproof &amp; self sealing. If I remember it is manufactured by 3M Company; the next time I'm down picking up electrical supplies (which is often, I have an old house!) I'll get the exact name &amp; product number &amp; post it here. It works well for anything that is irregular (or not) that you want to improve your grip on or don't want to slip - sticks, guns, hammers, knfes, coffee cups, ashtray, boat decking etc.

[Dijos]

I used to make that stuff. I used it later, as an electrician, it is high voltage insulating tape. not cheap, but great stuff.