Why Titanium?

[Carlos]

I am curious about the popularity of this metal in knifemaking today. Steel is stronger, and aluminum is lighter.



The advantages of Ti over the others is its greater resistance to temperature and corrosion: the former of which makes it useful to aerospace, and the latter of which does have one application to knifemaking -- dive knives (both hilt and blade).



Aside from dive knives, the only other application I see is in integral "frame" locks. With titanium you can make a lighter frame lock knife than with steel, an application where aluminum can't be used.



So what am I missing -- what is so special about Titanium?

[Joe Talmadge]

I'll take a shot at it, before Sal tells us the real answer <img src="smile.gif" width=15 height=15 align=middle>

There are two common uses for titanium in knife handles: as the liners, or as the scales.

As liners, if you want to reduce weight, you can replace steel liners with aluminum or titanium. Now, speaking strictly about liner locks, and other lock formats that require support from the liners (compression lock, axis lock, etc.). Aluminum has neither the strength or wear properties necessary to do an acceptable job in this role. Titanium is the natural alternative to steel: strong enough, wear-resistant enough, and in fact it tends to gall against the blade tang and so can make up for minor problems with the lock/tang geometry. The only real downsides to titanium in this role are that it wears faster than steel, that it's more expensive to purchase and machine, and that occasionally it can bind too much to the blade tang. Titanium is the only known acceptable alternative metal to steel in the liner role that I know of at this point.

For handle scales, it's a tougher choice between aluminum and titanium. Aluminum does have the disadvantage that it's softer and takes dings and scratches must easier. The manufacturer can put a hardcoat on the aluminum, but we all know what happens to hardcoat -- eventually it wears and scratches and looks REALLY bad. If the user cares much more about performance than looks, then aluminum is a fine choice. But for everyone else, this is not acceptable.

Titanium is more wear resistant to scratching, and can be easily re-surfaced when it gets bad enough. Anodization can provide for the maker to express an artistic flair. It is expensive and harder to work, but when speaking strictly of aesthetics, it works much better than aluminum.

Lastly, of course, titanium is a cool space-age metal and aluminum can be found in products as sexy as, say, aluminum foil, and coke cans. There's something to be said for that, marketing-wise <img src="smile.gif" width=15 height=15 align=middle>

Joe

[Carlos]

I have begun to suspect that its popularity is 90% cool factor and about 10% function. <img src="smile.gif" width=15 height=15 align=middle>

I have heard that Al holds a hardcoat better than Ti does. Anyone know it this is true? So far I haven't had any scratching problems with my C15P.

[tique]

You guys said exactly what I was thinking. Didn't want to post it due to lack of tech factor, but I'm afraid the whole fuss about titanium has a whole lot to do with the cool &quot;gadget factor&quot; that it lends to a knife. People think of Ti as being a &quot;cool&quot; space age material, so when they see it in a knife, it automatically becomes a &quot;cooler&quot; item to have.

There is some merit to the fact that it can be used as liners and scales due to it's strength-to-weight factor being higher than all the other metals currently used. So you can't totally discredit it, however, I think a nice stainless steel liner and frame would be stronger, and I am not worried about a few grams in a knife. If weight was that big of a factor, I'd spend more time in the gym losing some and I'd quit carrying everything but my Leatherman Micra.

About the only place I would find it necessary would be in a knife with a frame lock, outside of that it is an added expense to me and it seems to actually structurally weaken the knife compared to a similar piece with steel construction.

[sal]

Joe. I don't know that there are any &quot;real&quot; answers, or that I would have them.

On this forum, is is like the sign over my bedroom door while in college;

&quot;Enter not ye of narrow mind. Pass through these portals only if thy understanding be open to suggestion&quot;.

No experts here. All experts here. sharing is best.

We used titanium on the ATR (&amp; other integral compression lock designs) because in had spring tension. Aluminum hasn't enough and the steel version was considerably heavier. Where a larger amount of metal is required, the lighter weight of titan does show a difference.

We have another design that we've been working on that currently has an integral compression lock. It was shown on Knifecenter news (without permission) and I refuse to discuss it outside of this forum. We don't know exactly what we're going to do with it so I'm not ready to duscuss it on open forums.

We plan a colored aluminum handle with a nested compression lock. We'll use steel instead of titan because of the strength.

sal

[tique]

Sal,

Are you talking about the piece that looked similar to a small ATR? If so, I beg you not to put Aluminum scales on it. I despise Al scales on a knife, and I only own 4 with them, each one is numbered, and they sit on my shelf as a set to look pretty, but they would never get carried. That knife is too awesome looking to do that to me.

Should I take it from your comment that there was a SS version of the ATR? Are those proto's available and if so where, cause I'd love to get my hands on one of those. I kinda like a heavier knife, feels better in the hand to me.

[Carlos]

Sal,

In this I am the opposite of Tique -- I like aluminum very much and would prefer the small knife with Al scales and nested lock, to a steel frame lock.


Tique,

From what Sal has said on the other forum there will be both titanium and steel versions of the ATR. And from what he said above, I guess there would be aluminum and steel versions of the small compression lock knife.

Edited by - Carlos on 1/18/2001 4:41:12 PM

[tique]

Carlos,

Thanks for the heads up, must have missed that on the other forums. I'd probably be in for at least one of each in SS, and perhaps an ATR in Ti.

[Marc]

I'm not sure what people think is wrong with steel as a blade or liner material. It has served us all admirably for many years, and continues to evolve like no other metal I know. As far as handle materials go I love the look of stainless and alumnium, but I agree with Joe. They look like hell after any hard use. The Almite coating on my Toad didn't seem to help much. The piece showed considerable wear after only two weeks of daily city carry. I think my Chinese Folder is one of the most beautiful production knives I own, but I am being VERY carefull with it. Also metal handles are notoriously slippery, and I don't trust them for self defense or outdoor use. I think that from a practical standpoint G-10, Micarta, and carbon fiber, handles make a lot more sense; texturing and grip are easier to control. I really don't see the point of Titanium unless you are really concerned about corrosion, or need it for some kitchen application (it doesn't turn your sliced apples brown).

Marc