Sal, if you will...

[stu]

Hello everyone. I hope you are all having a great weekend.



Here's my question: Could very hot dish water affect the edge retention, temper(?),of a Spyderco, a Bill Moran for instance? I ask because I was told, as a meat packer, not to put my Forschener's in the dishwasher for this very reason. I do not know if this is true.



Sal, if you take the time to reply, I thank you in advance for your expert opinion.



Ya'll take care,



stu



"Yeah, Ah know," 'low de fox, "but dem dawgs what's yelpin' an' barkin' out dere in de woods mough not of been at dat meetin' yestiddy!" --J. Mason Brewer

[sal]

Hi Stu. Interesting question. And, I might add, one that has many opinions.

I believe that in order to understand (I don't know how much you know), perhaps some basics would help.

Steel is put through a process call heat treatment which turns the steel from a "soft" steel into a "hard" steel. This heat treating consists of two processes. Hardening and Tempering.

Hardening: First the steel is heated up to a very high temperature (in the 1900 - 2100 F range depending on the steel). It is held at this temperature (soak) until all of the steel (deep inside) is at that temperature.

Then the steel is cooled quickly. It is this quick cooling that causes the transformation into a hard steel. Cooling is done by quenching (submerging) the steel in water (eg; W2, W stands for water) oil (such as O1, O is oil) or leaving it at room temperature (A2, A stands for air).

This produces a very hard steel (high Rc# such as Rc64). Most steels cannot perform well at this temperature because they are too brittle (glass is harder than steel, but brittle).

Tempering: is to again heat the steel to a lower temperature (generally 350 - 650 F) soak and again quench. This second process will leave the steel at a "working" hardness. Generally in the Rc55 - Rc61 range. This "working hardness" seems to be an area of discussion.

I think here I should mention that some steels are made with a high molebdenum content which was created to prevent high temperature steel "creep" (stretch). 154cm (ATS34) was such a steel made for Boeing's fins in their jet engines. These steels temper at higher numbers (approx 900 F).

Now, a steel that is heat treated at a high tempering temperature is not likely to be affected by a hot water temperature of 212 F or less (boiling temp of water).

Forschner meat packing knives are a good, but cost effective product. The steel used is not likely a very high temperature steel. Higher temperatures cost more energy = dollars.

This is not to say that it is or it isn't going to be affected by hot water. I have no personal experience in this test and I would not say for sure unless I'd personally tested. I've heard the statement as well about knives and dishwashers. I put my Spyderco kitchen knives in the dishwasher (MBS-26 & MDS) with no problems.

I know it is not a definitive answer, but I hope this helps.

sal

[vampyrewolf]

So then...

I go on survival with Air Cadets about 3 times a year. I often end up opening my food with my spydie. Would I be safe giving it a good cleaning by using the dishwasher when I get back? Then using a oil such as WD-40 when it's done?
It's a Delica C11
I await your answer. Last time I just ended up using q-tips soaked in wd-40 to clean it...

We all start with 10 fingers. Those with Spydies have 9 to spare, Still need a thumb. Good thing I still have 8 to spare...

[stu]

Sal,

Thank you very much. I could not have asked for a more thorough or considerate answer.

You have developed a company with unusual character. I treasure the results.

Take care,

stu

[sal]

Hey Wolf. Should be no problem cleaning them with hot soapy water, or a dishwasher. All of our steels are "good to very good"

sal

[vampyrewolf]

thx for the reply sal, I'll remember that...

We all start with 10 fingers. Those with Spydies have 9 to spare, Still need a thumb. Good thing I still have 8 to spare...