View Full Version : Travis...Steel Comparo Request.
dynaryder
10-23-2003, 12:00 AM
Travis,in another thread you gave a short list of edge retention and rust resistance for a few steels. Could you post a chart w/all the steels Spyderco has used?
The steel charts w/all the ingredients really are just greek to me. I'd be more interested in just knowing how they stack up to each other in the two above mentioned catagories. Closest thing I've found to this was a chart that appeared in a Cabela's catalog. I found it interesting,but it only mentioned a couple steels. A simple bar graph w/edge holding,corrosion-resistance,and sharpenability would be a most welcome addition to the catalogs in place of the old ingredients lists. TIA.
travis quaas
10-23-2003, 08:34 AM
dynaryder,
Darn good question. I would follow my previous post. But, take into consideration that the "edge retention" on a SE versus a PE is going to be dramatically different (you probably already know that). Here is a curve ball for you. We found that the Salt I PE has a heck of edge retention. But the Salt I SE stays crazy sharp. This is bad news for me...I just love the PE on all models. IMHO, I am noticing more and more SE lovers moving back to PE configurations. Perhaps some of you guys can tell us your experiences to tell us why you are going "back to SE".
dynaryder, this might just help you...the following information was in our 2001 catalog:
Carbon (C):
1. Increases edge retention and raises tensile strength
2. Increases hardness and improves resistance to wear and abrasion
Chromium (Cr):
1. Increases harness, tensile strength and toughness
2. Provides resistance to wear and corrosion
Cobalt (Co):
1. Increases strength and hardess and permits quenching in higher temperatures
2. Intensifies the individual effects of other elements in more complex steels
Copper (Cu):
1. Increases corrosion resistance
Manganese (Mn):
1. Increases hardenability, wear resistance and tensile strength
2. De-oxidizes and de-gasifies to remove oxygen from molten metal
3. In larger quantities, increases hardness and brittleness
Molybdenum (Mo):
1. Increases strength, hardness, hardenability, and toughness
2. Improves machinability and resistance to corrosion
Nickel (Ni):
1. Adds strength and toughness
Phosporous (P):
1. Improves strength, machinability and hardness
2. Creates brittleness in high concentrations
Silicon (Si):
1. Increases strength
2. De-oxidies and de-gasifies to remove oxygen from molten metal
Sulphur (S):
1. Improves machinability when used in minute quantities
Tungsten (W):
1. Adds strength, toughness and improves hardenability
Vanadium (V):
1. Increases strength, wear resistance and increases toughness
Now, when you take this information you need to do a little homework. Take for example the ATS-55. A lot of folks would agree that ATS-55 is a pretty good steel. We made the Delicas and Enduras (amoungst others) with this steel. Rockwell Hardness test was darn high and the edge retention was pretty good to. But, IMO I noticed that the teeth on the serrations would break off. The brittleness of ATS-55 in some people's opinions is a drawback to this steel.
Another thing you will notice is that there are steels out there that we have on our knives, that are no longer being used. ATS-55 is still on our C29 Cricket Lightweights. You'll also notice that the American Made knives that we provide used the CPM440V and now use the CPMS30V. Both of these have some crazy edge retention. Although, I probably wouldn't get a CPM440V blade steel if I was still in the Navy. Its corrosion resistance was pretty low.
Other knife makers do out-source their knife production in places like Japan (which <img src="spyder.gif" width=15 height=15 align=middle border=0> does), Taiwan, China, etc. etc. etc. You'll see the claims that some of their models is using AUS-6 steel. I must note that the AUS-6 steel that the Japanese Steel makers produce differ's greatly from the Chinese AUS-6. I didn't realize this, but it seems that you can "make the same steel" by using the same ratios and label the steel the same way. Does this mean that you will get the same qualities out of this steel? No. Reason for this is that the barometric pressure, elevation and humdity in the atmosphere also affects the qualities of the steel. Believe it or not, location has a great deal to do with the steel that is produced.
My recomendation, focus on CPMS30V, CPM440V, VG-10 for your edge retention. Then CPMS30V and VG-10 for corrosion resistance (minus H-1 since it is not out yet for <img src="spyder.gif" width=15 height=15 align=middle border=0> ).
Hope this somewhat helps.
TQ
Jurphaas
10-23-2003, 08:57 AM
A very good post Travis! here you went the extra mile for all of us. Thanks a lot and it is not very common for a company to give such extensive advice. Thanks again and have a great weekend when it's due!
Jur.
Clipits work!
Joe Talmadge
10-23-2003, 02:36 PM
http://www.edcknives.com/pdf-files/Steel_v2.pdf
Steel FAQ URL above, might help out. BTW, "edge retention" isn't something that can be measured on its own. "Wear resistance" can be -- just use the knife on an abrasive medium and see how long it lasts. But a knife that's highly wear resistant might not have great edge retention if the application requires high toughness or strength. For chopping (say), a tougher low-wear-resistant steel might have much better edge retention than a brittle highly-wear-resistant steel, right?
Joe
dynaryder
10-23-2003, 06:04 PM
Travis: thanks,but I was looking for something like this pic. No scanner,so I took a pic of the chart from the Cabelas catalog.
Powered by vBulletin® Version 4.1.10 Copyright © 2012 vBulletin Solutions, Inc. All rights reserved.