Give me your thoughts on CIVILIAN..

[spyderskin]

I got a civilian coming from a trade on the forums.. Just wanting to get some input from civilian owners... I know this is a SD knife only, SD purposes are really the only reason I have most of my knives.. So I have alot of "pocket-queens"... I only have a few choice users that I cut with.. But I don't really do anything that requires any heavy cutting.. So my knife obsession stems from SD and Edged-weapons training... I have only held the civilian once and about purchased it at a gun show one time... I am really impressed by the design....anyway just looking for other opinions..


By the way.. I have trained with edged-weapons and SD using different styles and knife designs for a few years now... I must give the ultimate respect to Spyderco for the Waved Delica and Waved Endura.. Never have I found knives that are more effective for SD than these two designs.. Everything from rapid deployment to deployment in tight spots.. They are light weight, strong and lock up solid.... I have trained with models from just about all the big name production knife companies... Emerson is the founder of the Wave, no disrespect to Emerson, but the Spyderco version is much more effective IMO... anyway hats off to spyderco...thanks

[jujigatame]

The Civvie is one of my only safe queens so I can't tell you anything about using it, but whenever I look at it my main thought is

"Heaven help the poor soul who's ever on the receiving end of one of these."

[JD Spydo]

If you have a bigger hand than mine then you'll probably deem it to be a supreme SD blade. To be down right honest I like the Civilian's little sister The Matriarch a little better. The 2 designs are identical but the Matriarch is scaled down to a somewhat smaller size. The Matriarch has a FRN handle instead of a G-10 handle that your Civilian has. I truly do wish the Matriarch had a G-10 handle but I still love it with the FRN handle.

The Civilian in my opinion is a superb SD blade design. I do hope you are getting one with VG-10 blade steel. I've had a couple of guys tell me that the VG-10 steel is a bit stronger at the tip

The Civi has been in the Spyderco Specialty line up for quite some time. And it's been there that long for a reason. I do hope you'll like the knife. But do try to give a Matriarch a test drive if you ever get the chance.

On top of everything else to consider it is one of Spyderco's Hawkbills>> I rest my case

[Dr. Snubnose]

The Civilian is a decent SD knife, but one must remember that it has limited uses...Like JD said the Matriach is a splendid example of nearly the same knife...Bare in mind that no thrusting can be done with the Civilian...it is a pure slashing tool, which may or may not get you through the day when SHTF...IMHO, I much prefer to have either of the Waved models for SD, a Chinook I or II, better yet the Ronin in a fixed blade and Yojimbo in the folding design will probably suit your needs much better when it comes to SD...Doc

[THG]

If you want one purely for SD, you might also look into the P'Kal.

[Dr. Snubnose]

The P'Kal is also a good SD knife but also has limited uses, and works well in the well trained hands of a practitioner who uses and is trained in edge facing inwards reverse grip techniques....Doc

[Agent Starling]

Originally Posted by JD Spydo

The Civilian in my opinion is a superb SD blade design. I do hope you are getting one with VG-10 blade steel. I've had a couple of guys tell me that the VG-10 steel is a bit stronger at the tip.

Glad you added that, JD, hadn't heard that before.

Agent Starling

[markg]

I agree with Dr. Snubnose... You are giving up some "function" from a SD standpoint. You are limited to slashing and cutting, and most people will tell you that when gross motor skills take over... you will try to poke/stab...

That being said, I do dearly love the knife.

It's greatest asset IMHO, is that it scares the crap out of people...

[spyderskin]

Thanks for the responses, for sure the civilian is purely a slashing weapon and limited in that way.. But the kind of slashing this thing could do more than makes up for it's limits... The P'kal I have trained with and have found it much more limiting then the waved models.. Its just personal likes and dislikes of different people.. But you would have to train alot with P'kal, especially deploying it while on the ground with someone on top of you.....You have to deploy it inward toward the body, and with someone on top of you that is a bad fault with P'kal.... Delica wave is actually the best, simply because of it's smaller size and it does not take alot to deploy this knife from the pocket at any angle...and you can reverse draw it as well...

Here is a short vid showing an endura reverse draw into reverse grip
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3L1Q55t6Tu0

[THG]

Originally Posted by spyderskin

Here is a short vid showing an endura reverse draw into reverse grip
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3L1Q55t6Tu0

I find it's easy to do this when the knife is clipped in this fashion:



You grab the knife by the butt end that's sticking out with your thumb and index finger, tug, then the wave deploys the blade, and the force turns the knife around enough where it goes right into position for a reverse grip.

[urbnspyd]

THG, I never thought about clipping a knife that way. Looks good! An untucked shirt could easliy conceal that too, if that's a concern. It looks like a nice alternative for IWB carry. You learn something new everyday. With movement would the knife ever slip down?

[THG]

Originally Posted by urbnspyd

THG, I never thought about clipping a knife that way. Looks good! An untucked shirt could easliy conceal that too, if that's a concern. It looks like a nice alternative for IWB carry. You learn something new everyday. With movement would the knife ever slip down?

The thing is that the pockets have to be wide enough. I can do this on some of my pants but not others. And yes, I think it makes carry much less conspicuous.

The knife never slips up or down for me. It just stays horizontal. I was surprised myself.

[Billy]

Originally Posted by THG

I find it's easy to do this when the knife is clipped in this fashion:



You grab the knife by the butt end that's sticking out with your thumb and index finger, tug, then the wave deploys the blade, and the force turns the knife around enough where it goes right into position for a reverse grip.

The easiest way to have it deply in reverse grip is to simply flip the clip and carry it "backwards". I often carry a D4W weak side (LFP), but leave the clip mounted for RH carry. I also carry it at the front of the pocket (nearest my belly button). That way, I can reach across with my right and deploy it normally or deploy with my left in reverse grip.

[El Tigre]

If you knows how to use it, and you have practice with Karambits, the civilian is a great weapon. I love my civie and carry it often.
IMHO, the civilian isn't for untrained persons.

"El Tigre"

[spyderskin]

Originally Posted by El Tigre

If you knows how to use it, and you have practice with Karambits, the civilian is a great weapon. I love my civie and carry it often.
IMHO, the civilian isn't for untrained persons.

"El Tigre"

I do agree with this, I believe untrained persons should never carry a knife for SD period...

[spyderskin]

Originally Posted by THG

I find it's easy to do this when the knife is clipped in this fashion:



You grab the knife by the butt end that's sticking out with your thumb and index finger, tug, then the wave deploys the blade, and the force turns the knife around enough where it goes right into position for a reverse grip.

This is a interesting method, but blue jeans are about the only type of pants that this is possible.. And even with blue jeans the knife can slip around in you pocket and go out of this position... But deploying this knife while sitting, this is the perfect method..

[THG]

Originally Posted by spyderskin

This is a interesting method, but blue jeans are about the only type of pants that this is possible.. And even with blue jeans the knife can slip around in you pocket and go out of this position... But deploying this knife while sitting, this is the perfect method..

Like I said, I was surprised myself that the knife doesn't slip. It stays horizontal. Well now that I check... It seems as if on some of my pants with wide pockets, they have a "corner," kinda. So the knife can't rotate down.

Oh well, when I get to do it, I do. It's the easiest, most comfortable way to carry for me. I can wave it every time without fail this way (much easier than vertically), and when I lean against something, there is no strange pressure against my leg, because the pressure goes horizontally instead of vertically.

So I guess if your pants allow it, I recommend this type of carry.

[Civilian]

Originally Posted by Dr. Snubnose

The Civilian is a decent SD knife, but one must remember that it has limited uses...Like JD said the Matriach is a splendid example of nearly the same knife...Bare in mind that no thrusting can be done with the Civilian...

Don't take this the wrong way but, I would bet my life on the fact that if you thrust a Civilian into an unarmored target it will do immense amounts of damage. If anyone doesn't believe me just go get your Civy out of the safe(or go buy one first) and Gently(very gently) press the tip against your palm in a thrusting motion. The tip is so fine it would have no problem penetrating the full 4 1/8 inch blade length and more. Now once it is in there that is when the fun begins(I'll let you use your imagination here).

[Civilian]

One more thing the original aluminum handled version has an amazingly nice heft to it. If you were a little squeamish about blood, using the but of the handle would be devastating to bony objects.

[Dr. Snubnose]

Originally Posted by Civilian

Don't take this the wrong way but, I would bet my life on the fact that if you thrust a Civilian into an unarmored target it will do immense amounts of damage. If anyone doesn't believe me just go get your Civy out of the safe(or go buy one first) and Gently(very gently) press the tip against your palm in a thrusting motion. The tip is so fine it would have no problem penetrating the full 4 1/8 inch blade length and more. Now once it is in there that is when the fun begins(I'll let you use your imagination here).

Yep try it hard against your belt buckle or a wall and see if you have any knife left to fight with....that would be just in case you missed the soft target...You could gently penetrate your palm flesh with a safety pin..but I wouldn't want to fight with it....Doc