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Bolster
01-06-2008, 11:09 PM
OK, I have not been keeping up with the conversations about the Tenacious, but I see that it's made of 8Cr13MoV steel. My own notes are sketchy on this steel, simply says: "A Chinese steel. It has similar properties to AUS-8. 8C13CrMoV is basically an upgrade to 13C26.”

Well that's only moderately helpful, if true. Certainly the collective brain of the forum can fill me in on this (to me) mysterious Chinese steel. Does 8C13CrMoV represent Spyderco's lowest-end steel in the current lineup?

224477
01-07-2008, 01:33 AM
I dont know the costs of 8cr13mov, but I would just guess based on the fact that its used on the cheapest models /byrds/ that its not as expensive as f.e. VG10 or H1 and ZDP189 LOL! :D
But from the user perspective I am pretty okey with it, it gives a nice edge, more than reasonable sharpness and its not hard to maintain. Didnt experience and chipping issues yet.

El Comanche
01-07-2008, 03:00 AM
I have and FRN Meadowlark plain edge. I can get it sharp, retains the edge reasonably, and hasn't chipped either. For the $$ I'm pretty impressed. Then again, I haven't really beat the crap out of it yet:D

The Deacon
01-07-2008, 03:16 AM
OK, I have not been keeping up with the conversations about the Tenacious, but I see that it's made of 8Cr13MoV steel. My own notes are sketchy on this steel, simply says: "A Chinese steel. It has similar properties to AUS-8. 8C13CrMoV is basically an upgrade to 13C26.

Well that's only moderately helpful, if true. Certainly the collective brain of the forum can fill me in on this (to me) mysterious Chinese steel. Does 8C13CrMoV represent Spyderco's lowest-end steel in the current lineup?Possibly. Until we know for sure whether the FRN Dragonfly has actually been updated to VG-10, can't say for sure. If that's a misprint, then Tenacious would be about on a par with it. If it's true, then yes, since that's the only AUS-8 model left in the lineup, and all the last of the "bottom end" AUS-6 steel was phased out last year when the SS Delica, SS Endura, and Ladybug were upgraded.

It's not as if it's the first time Spyderco has used 8Cr13MoV. There should be plenty of threads commenting on the various Byrd models which use it. Would imagine at least some of them contain observations on edge holding, rust resistance, and other steel characteristics. Imagine those would probably be valid, since I really doubt there will be any difference between Spyderco 8Cr13MoV and Byrd 8Cr13MoV, unless they give it a better heat treat for the Tenacious. Don't recall any strong negative comments, but even if there are, they'd have to be evaluated in the context of the reports of chipping, staining, rusting, etc. of the "high end" stuff.

MANIXWORLD
01-07-2008, 03:24 AM
Ive got the SS Byrd Meadowlark and its nice,but i have seen rustspots appear on its blade,where my VG10 Spydies were kept under way more moist conditions and not a speck of rust, on the Spydies.
the long title of the Byrd bladesteel needs to be abreviated,cause it makes it sound like some super bladesteel.
I am not to fond with the Byrd blade steel,but then again im probably spoilt by Spydie bladesteel,which is the cream of the crop for me and many others.
For the allround and oldskool Spydie knifeknut,nothing beats 100% full grain Spyderco bladesteel.
The Byrd line can target the people who get shocked to pay $80-$100 for a Spyderco and don't have a clue about good bladesteel etc.

The Deacon
01-07-2008, 05:03 AM
For the allround and oldskool Spydie knifeknut,nothing beats 100% full grain Spyderco bladesteel.Perhaps, but only if they make a habit of selling, giving away, or throwing out their older knives. If I'm reading things correctly, 8Cr13MoV is a notch (or more) better than AUS-6 which was used on a number of Spyderco branded knives over the years. Granted, I'm not an "oldskool Spydie knifeknut", I'd happily trade away "performance" to gain "eye appeal", so my opinions on this may be biased. To me, the only significant difference between 8Cr13MoV and ZDP-189 is price, they're both just monochromatic grey metal.

bowarrow2000
01-07-2008, 07:02 AM
8C13CrMoV--A chinese steel--It might be ok but as far as I am concerned it's not quality stuff.

spydutch
01-07-2008, 09:00 AM
A good while ago my son whittled little brances with my AUS 6 Jester for quite a while.

When cleaning the blade in the evening I decided to test it's sharpness. Well it was still able to clean cut paper. I was rather impressed by this.

And if 8Cr13MoV is a notch better than AUS 6 then it can't be all that bad can it?

But then I'm not that much of a steel junkie anyway:o Neither do I care very much which country is stamped on the blade. I find it more important that the knife is solid and play free.
I don't mind sharpen it a bit more often in that case.

Just my 2 cents.

The Deacon
01-07-2008, 09:37 AM
8C13CrMoV--A chinese steel--It might be ok but as far as I am concerned it's not quality stuff.Gotta love well reasoned scientific analysis.



I really wish I could afford to run this experiment.

Start by having a dozen "sets" of eight knives each made. Each set would contain eight otherwise identical fixed blade knives in:


8Cr13MoV (at the hardness used in the Tenacious)

VG-10 (at the hardness used in the Caly 3)

ZDP-189 (at the hardness used in the Stretch II)

CPM S30V (at the hardness used in the Native)

420HC (at the hardness used in the Buck 110)

AUS-8 (at the hardness used in Boker Plus Trance)

N690Co (at the hardness used in the Volpe)

?????? (whatever steel Victorinox uses on their SAK's at its normal hardness)

The blades would each be uniquely numbered, and only I would know the key. Two sets would go to Sal, one for CATRA, and then Q-fog testing, one for "field" testing. The other ten would go to ten other "steel gurus", some with credentials, some self-proclaimed, for field testing. Can't say for sure, but would bet large sums of money that some of the results would surprising, some would be amusing, and some would be both.

araneae
01-07-2008, 09:49 AM
8C13CrMoV--A chinese steel--It might be ok but as far as I am concerned it's not quality stuff.

I've used it and found it more than adequate quality. I've had no rusting issues, no chipping, and received adequate edge holding ability. A great steel for the budget minded(or anyone else) IMO.

Left Hand Path
01-07-2008, 10:12 AM
I like the Deacon's experiment idea a lot. I think the results would be very interesting.

As far as 8Cr13MoV, it is reputed to be high-hardness - up to 61 on the byrds. I believe it is a pretty fine-grain steel, and it takes a very sharp edge. I think it is a great steel, especially at the price point at which it is available.

David Lowry
01-07-2008, 10:39 AM
I did a review on the Benchmade Vex which had the same steel. I did this review as a favor because the knife was given to me. I ended up giving the knife away after I was done.

The blade steel held up to chopping very well. I chopped into a 1x6 about 1.5" deep. The cut was a V shape and was almost 2" wide too. I cut cardboard, and regular every day stuff and this steel held up very well for me.

I would say that it held up as well or better than AUS-8, and 154CM. It didn't keep a hair shaving edge long, but after it lost it it kept a very usable edge for a long time. The steel seemed hard to me as it took a bit more to sharpen than I was used to. It however came right back to shaving sharp. I ended up putting a 17 degree edge on each side and it had no problems with that at all. I was actually kind of blown away at how well this steel did. I even dropped the knife on concrete while it was open (on accident) and it put a few nicks and chips in the blade where it hit. They were able to be sharpened out in about 30 minutes with no problem.

If Spyderco uses the same steel from the same company with the same heat treat (or better) I think that you will be really surprised at how kick butt this steel is.

yablanowitz
01-07-2008, 11:33 AM
I have been using my G-10 Flight at work quite a bit lately. This particular blade holds an edge slightly better than Spyderco AUS8 in my informal testing. I will grant you that it may qualify as the bottom-end steel for Spyderco (if the next step up is VG-10), but that still puts it way ahead of some companies' top end steel. If that is the starting point for Chinese production Spyderco knives, I say "Bring it on!"

jaislandboy
01-07-2008, 04:20 PM
yup I also feel the Byrd steel holds an edge better than the AUS-8 on my FRN Dragonfly for (light duty) slicing chores ;) I wonder if the ATS-55 on my SS Dragonfly is a closer comparison to the 8Cr13MoV steel :rolleyes:

yablanowitz
01-07-2008, 04:36 PM
My sample is too small to be statistically significant, but my Flight holds an edge better than the ATS-55 PE blades on my Dyads. Make of that what you will ;)

Cliff Stamp
01-07-2008, 07:17 PM
It is a low carbide stainless steel, similar to the Sandvik blade steels and low alloy steels such as 52100. In general calling any steel an "upgrade" to another is misleading and as a general rule if a knifemaker says something like that, pretty much run from them. All steels are superior to other steels in various respects and inferior to them in others. 8Cr13Mov has much better edge stability than S30V. S30V has much higher wear resistance. Which one is the better knife steel, well what do you want, edge stability or wear resistance.

-Cliff

gscreely
06-07-2008, 10:10 PM
In general calling any steel an "upgrade" to another is misleading and as a general rule


I would agree that many folks do not understand the idea of a steel being better in certain applications than others. For instance H1 would not be an upgrade to VG-10. I get that, but I would tend to disagree with the notion that to call one steel an upgrade over an other is misleading. It can be misleading, but certainly does not have to be.

The truth is some steels are just plain better than others and it would be both fair and accurate to call them an upgrade, if that were not true spyderco would still be using gin-1.

I think it would be fair to call ZDP-189 an upgrade to 8Cr13Mov.

spydutch
06-08-2008, 04:08 AM
Well, I'm sorry to say but I'm not impressed by 8Cr13MoV steel:(

I brought my Tenecious/SE with me to work a while ago and on cutting the very first plastic fibre band the scallops rolled like crazy. I didn't sharpen the knife before. Just took it out of the box and started to use it.

This never happened to my Trance/SE.:confused:

The Deacon
06-08-2008, 04:28 AM
I think it would be fair to call ZDP-189 an upgrade to 8Cr13Mov.Depends on application. Which would make a "better" machete? Be "better" for a folder which would see light use, but occasionally be used as screwdriver? Think that's the point Cliff was trying to make, that "super steels" are not necessarily superior for all uses.

As for H-1 and VG-10, there are most certainly applications where H-1 would be a better choice, and thus reasonable to consider an upgrade.

FLYBYU44
06-08-2008, 06:48 AM
I bought both my knives because I like the designs (Lava and Rescue). The fact that they are both VG10 makes little difference. It is a decent steel, but I can't say that I'm impressed with it. Both my Lava and Rescue hold their edge about as long as my $25 SAK Soldier. I think people get too caught up in the marketing and the exclusiveness of the so-called super steels. As long as a knife holds an edge under normal use for a little while, I'm happy with it.

Cliff Stamp
06-08-2008, 08:54 AM
The truth is some steels are just plain better than others and it would be both fair and accurate to call them an upgrade, if that were not true spyderco would still be using gin-1.

There is no such thing, ZDP-189 has a very low edge stability, corrosion resistance and toughness compared to 8Cr13MoV.

-Cliff

mrappraisit
06-08-2008, 10:15 AM
All good just different. It still comes down to "what are you using it for?" and sometimes more importantly "how much do you want to pay?"
I think the 8Cr13MoV is an awesome value.

stoneman
06-08-2008, 12:18 PM
I'm no scientist nor do I intentionally test my knives for comparison. All I know is what I've witnessed with my own knives cutting whatever needs cutting in my day to day life. I own a meadowlark and a tenacious pe. They haven't had the workouts that some of my other spydies have had so I can't fairly comment on the longevity of the edge on these two little beauties, but what I can say is this. I sharpened both on the 204 which is one of the first things I usually do ( I find sharpening knives relaxing) and they take a really sharp edge in my opinion. Went camping last year and forgot one of my bags at home, the one with my knives in it of course:(. The only knife I had to use for food prep was the meadowlark. A little small for some tasks I must admit but that thing was a friggin' laser. My buddy was slicing some tomatoes and couldn't get over how it slim the slices he could make were. He still talks about it to this day anytime we're in the kitchen. They may not be designer steel packin', carbon fiber handled show peices, but I personally trust them to get me through the day anytime.:)

The Mastiff
06-08-2008, 08:36 PM
In a purely technical way Cliff is exactly correct. On the other hand, as a user with needs fit to my uses, there are better and worse steels for me. But Cliff is Right. And So am I. :)

Cliff Stamp
06-14-2008, 09:52 AM
Once you define the qualities being evaluated and how they are measured, then sure, you can say what is better. Misinformation however sets in with then conclusions are stated without ever defining the reasoning. 420HC has a much higher corrosion resistance, edge stability and toughness than ZDP-189. Is it better? Yes, if those are things you want.

-Cliff

David Lowry
06-14-2008, 10:19 AM
Shawn
Sausage fingers out!

Dude I just have to say that this kills me. It makes me laugh so much. :D

I love the "Sausage fingers out"

gscreely
06-15-2008, 08:10 AM
Cliff,

I agree that an "upgraded steel" phrase is often contextual incorrect. Where I am in disagreement is to say that you can not call one steel an upgrade over an other. If all the cards are on the table in terms of the application and context some steels out perform others.

I agree with your point at it root, and "upgrade" is often a misused term. My point is simply to say that to say you can not accurately call one steel an upgrade over an other is overstating your point.

As for 8Cr13Mov I used my Tenacious all week for a home repair missions project. I like the knife design and feel the steel is the knifes weakest link. That said it did perform ok under rather abusive circumstances, and sharpened up nicely.

The edge did roll, however I was opening a can with it. 8Cr13Mov appears to have similar edge retention of AUS8, but not as much corrosion resistance IMO.

Cliff Stamp
06-15-2008, 09:44 AM
Yes, once the application is specified and the measures defined then you can rank steels, just like you can rank the knives themselves. ZDP-189 for example has a much higher wear resistance than 8Cr13MoV, this means that when a low sharpness is desired for a long time then it will be the superior choice as once the edge has thickened to the points the carbides are stable, the edge wears essentially like chromium carbide which is much harder than the martensite of 8Cr13Mov.

-Cliff

Jeff Tanner
06-15-2008, 10:05 AM
Does 8C13CrMoV represent Spyderco's lowest-end steel in the current lineup?

It certainly represents the most difficult steel to pronounce...

Eight See Thirteen See R Em Oh Vee



I mean, puh leeze...what kind of name is that? http://www.clicksmilies.com/s1106/lachen/laughing-smiley-001.gif

sal
06-15-2008, 11:35 AM
I think that technically, Cliff is correct. That's why I generally avoid saying that one "anything" is "better" than another "anything". Better being a relative term. "All good, just different". Every steel has some advantage in some application.

For the purposes of discussion, then what is an "upgrade"?

In the world of blades, one elusive pinnacle has always been edge retention. That which stays sharper longer. Afer all, the edge IS the knife isn't it? The blade supports the edge, the handle controls the edge. Without the edge, is the knife really a knife?

Creating steels with superior edge retention has always been a challenge in the knife industry. In the area of edge retention, going from a steel with an "X" amount of abrasion resistance, given the edge geometry, to a steel with a greater, or X+1 amount of abrasion resistance, because of a new development, would be considered an "upgrade" in edge retention, would it not?

Creating corrosion resistant cutting materials has also been an elusive pinnacle. A steel like H-1 which does not corrode (for who knows how long?) and still has good edge retention would be considered an "upgrade" in corrosion resistant cutting materials, would it not?

If the goal is to be light and strong, going from a knife that weighs "X" at a given strength and cutting horsepower, to a knife that weighs X-1 would be an upgrade in the perceived goal, would it not?

sal

Morales
07-19-2008, 02:51 AM
I read a lot about this steel cause I really love it. I wondered how the composition of it was and it kinda surprised me that 8Cr13MoV is not on Spyderco's own steel chart. That didn't happen intentionally, did it? ;)

sal
07-19-2008, 06:18 AM
I read a lot about this steel cause I really love it. I wondered how the composition of it was and it kinda surprised me that 8Cr13MoV is not on Spyderco's own steel chart. That didn't happen intentionally, did it? ;)

We have had the steel listed on our steel chart since we began using it. How old is your steel chart?

sal

Piet.S
07-19-2008, 07:44 AM
It is not as much of a name but more a code of its contends.
The 8 is the amount of carbon, 0.8%.
Cr is chromium and 13%, so it is a stainless steel.
MoV means it has also some molybdenum and vanadium.
So it gives you quite a good idea of what you got.

Morales
07-19-2008, 01:21 PM
Thanks for your quick reply, Sal, the steel chart I meant was the one (http://www.spyderco.com/edge-u-cation/index.php?item=3) online under Edge-U-Cation. Maybe something on my computer isn't working as it should be, but I can't find 8Cr13MoV there. If it's there, I just don't see it..:confused:
And thank you Piet, I found the composition later on Cliff's page. You're right, almost everything one needs to know is already in the steel's name itself.

sixheads
07-19-2008, 06:29 PM
I have had a FRN Robin ,se since it has come out maybe a year and a half. I take it to work every day and beat it to death. I cut open shipping straps from overseas containers 1 minute and cut rope or boxes or paper. I fixed my sons hockey helmet with it using the blade as a screw driver and chiped it. Then free handed it on my lansky untill it was super dull, bought a sharp maker and just brought it back to push cutting paper. I am getting a G-10 handeled crow because i need a little bit more handel length. But the steel is solid and i keep it oiled so corrosion dosent really affect it.

For the Money its MONEY !!!!!

Sixheads

philthygeezer
07-19-2008, 10:20 PM
I read a lot about this steel cause I really love it. I wondered how the composition of it was and it kinda surprised me that 8Cr13MoV is not on Spyderco's own steel chart. That didn't happen intentionally, did it? ;)

Ancient Chinese Secret! ;)

sal
07-20-2008, 06:51 AM
Hi Morales,

Your right, it's not there :eek:

Thanx for the head's up. We'll "fissit" next week.

If you have one of our catalogs, the steel chart is also there.

sal

Morales
07-20-2008, 08:05 AM
Hi sal,
you're welcome, but it wasn't a big deal for me anyway. I thought I just mention it, cause sometimes these mistakes can happen. I don't have a Spyderco catalog, but I already know which Spydies I want next, so not having a catalog eases the pain a little.:D I don't have to think bout the knives all the time.
Keep up the good work, you and your company are outstanding!

jabba359
07-26-2008, 08:30 PM
I'm not impressed with this steel at all. I've been EDCing my Delica since 2001. I misplaced it in March and so I bought a Tenacious to take its place. I only carried the Tenacious for about 3 weeks and used it maybe 20 times or so, cutting nylon straps and some cardboard. The teeth however, have rolled over in that short time of light use. Fortunately, my Delica turned up (my 55 year-old aunt stole it while visiting my house...she hates me). I've used the Delica more harshly for seven years, yet the ATS-55 has never let me down or failed in any way. Good thing 8Cr13MoV isn't my first :spyder: or else it would have been my only and last Spyderco experience. As for the teeth failure issue, does anybody know how I can fix the blade?

http://i68.photobucket.com/albums/i10/jabba359/Random%20Stuff/TeethComparison.jpg
Delica on on top, Tenacious underneath.
http://i68.photobucket.com/albums/i10/jabba359/Random%20Stuff/BentTeeth.jpg
Close-up of bent teeth.
http://i68.photobucket.com/albums/i10/jabba359/Random%20Stuff/Knives.jpg
I don't like the scratched up black paint on the clips, so I used some paint remover on the Delica. I think it looks better in silver.

The Mastiff
07-26-2008, 08:46 PM
The steel that's bent has to go. That's a lot of sharpening. I'd send it in to Spyderco and pay to have it done, unless you enjoy taking the time to sharpen it up yourself. Joe

sal
07-26-2008, 09:57 PM
Hi Jabba,

Welcome to the Spyderco forum.

Why don't you send it back to Spyderco. Call it to my attention.

I don't think the problem was the steel, I think it was the geometry of the serrations., We're working with the maker to refine the teeth.

I've not seen one messed up like that. It would be good to check it out. We'll make it better for you.

sal

David Lowry
07-26-2008, 10:45 PM
jabba359,

Welcome to the forum. Say, you mind taking some more pics of the ATS-55 Blue Delica? It's a great knife. Looks like you've used it well.

:D

sixheads
07-27-2008, 07:09 AM
Jabba i use my frn rodin serrated edge for cutting things its way to small for and i lend it to non knife sheeple who cut things they shouldnt with it ( i lent it to a guy who cut rug on a concrete floor and he was a hack with anything but and exacto knife) and when i get it home i just put it on the sharp maker and its brand new. The steel is fine it has to be what sal said above. I would trust my life to this steal.

Just my opinion but i wouldent hesitate to buy another knife in that steel.


Sixheads

jabba359
07-27-2008, 04:33 PM
Hi Jabba,

Welcome to the Spyderco forum.

Why don't you send it back to Spyderco. Call it to my attention.

I don't think the problem was the steel, I think it was the geometry of the serrations., We're working with the maker to refine the teeth.

I've not seen one messed up like that. It would be good to check it out. We'll make it better for you.

sal

I appreciate the warm welcome. I've been a die-hard Spyderco user for ten years (my first was the Q model in 1998). For the past three years I've been a forum reader, joining the forum two years ago, and finally made my first post yesterday. People think I'm crazy when I tell them I spent $50 :eek: on a pocket-knife (the Delica) when I can pick up a _______ at Walmart for $10-15. Over the course of the last seven years, that comes out to 2 cents a day to know that I have a knife that won't let me down. I don't know about them, but that seems downright cheap for some peace of mind. I'll send the Tenacious over so you can check it out. Thanks for the help!

mrappraisit
07-27-2008, 06:35 PM
People think I'm crazy when I tell them I spent $50 :eek: on a pocket-knife (the Delica) when I can pick up a _______ at Walmart for $10-15. Over the course of the last seven years, that comes out to 2 cents a day to know that I have a knife that won't let me down. I don't know about them, but that seems downright cheap for some peace of mind. I'll send the Tenacious over so you can check it out. Thanks for the help!

You're not the only one, and well said.

dialex
07-28-2008, 01:17 AM
Gotta love well reasoned scientific analysis.



I really wish I could afford to run this experiment.

Start by having a dozen "sets" of eight knives each made. Each set would contain eight otherwise identical fixed blade knives in:


8Cr13MoV (at the hardness used in the Tenacious)

VG-10 (at the hardness used in the Caly 3)

ZDP-189 (at the hardness used in the Stretch II)

CPM S30V (at the hardness used in the Native)

420HC (at the hardness used in the Buck 110)

AUS-8 (at the hardness used in Boker Plus Trance)

N690Co (at the hardness used in the Volpe)

?????? (whatever steel Victorinox uses on their SAK's at its normal hardness)

The blades would each be uniquely numbered, and only I would know the key. Two sets would go to Sal, one for CATRA, and then Q-fog testing, one for "field" testing. The other ten would go to ten other "steel gurus", some with credentials, some self-proclaimed, for field testing. Can't say for sure, but would bet large sums of money that some of the results would surprising, some would be amusing, and some would be both.

Hi Paul.
This would be a neat idea. I think you will probably be right regarding the odd results but what the heck, at least we'll have fun. ;)

Hattie
01-10-2011, 11:28 AM
8C13CrMoV has similar properties to AUS-8. '

In any case I am satisfied with this steel - cuts very well and sharpens right up easily, something i often miss with 'super' steels such as the CPMs. What good if you can't sharpen it properly in the field ?

Hattie

marknett
01-10-2011, 11:49 AM
Thanks for your quick reply, Sal, the steel chart I meant was the one (http://www.spyderco.com/edge-u-cation/index.php?item=3) online under Edge-U-Cation. Maybe something on my computer isn't working as it should be, but I can't find 8Cr13MoV there. If it's there, I just don't see it..:confused:
And thank you Piet, I found the composition later on Cliff's page. You're right, almost everything one needs to know is already in the steel's name itself.

It's there . I even went by your posted link and it's there :D

xavierdoc
01-10-2011, 03:35 PM
8C13CrMoV has similar properties to AUS-8. '

In any case I am satisfied with this steel - cuts very well and sharpens right up easily, something i often miss with 'super' steels such as the CPMs. What good if you can't sharpen it properly in the field ?

Hattie


It's there . I even went by your posted link and it's there :D

Don't you just love these "back from the dead" threads!

For what it's worth, My Crossbill G10 has been hammered and neglected but remains solid and easily sharpenable. The teeth haven't rolled or chipped.

One important factor in evaluating cheaper steels on cheaper knives is that they probably get more abuse and less care than there expensive cousins.

I know my cheaper knives get a harder life than my posh ones (generally speaking)- I don't remember ever cleaning, oiling/waxing a Byrd :o

Muad'Dib
01-10-2011, 08:08 PM
I have a PE Resilience, and I love it. I used it hard on a home renovation project, cutting drywall and trimming plaster among other things. That definitely dulled the blade, so it doesn't shave my arm hairs anymore (like it did out of box) but it still cuts pretty much everything still.

I'm really curious about 9Cr18Mo. How does that compare to 8Cr13MoV in performance and price?

marknett
01-10-2011, 08:27 PM
I know this thread is old ,but the 8CR13Mov is still going strong in the byrds and a few others right now . I'd like to see what everyone thinks of it now compared to then

00max00
01-10-2011, 09:04 PM
There is no such thing, ZDP-189 has a very low edge stability, corrosion resistance and toughness compared to 8Cr13MoV.

-Cliff

Duh, whatever steel Victorinox is putting in their knives is the best in term of edge stability, corrosion resistance and toughness...:rolleyes:

chuck_roxas45
01-10-2011, 09:12 PM
Can anybody tell me what edge stability is?

jzmtl
01-10-2011, 09:17 PM
Can anybody tell me what edge stability is?

Steel matrix be able to hold all the carbide and stuff without them falling out on very top of edge.


Duh, whatever steel Victorinox is putting in their knives is the best in term of edge stability, corrosion resistance and toughness...:rolleyes:

You know even though you said that as sarcasm, you are actually right on all three points, Vic's steel literally doesn't rust with their smooth finish unless you seriously neglect it, tough as hell, and has much better stability than the extremely high carbide steel like ZDP189.

Armalite Native
01-10-2011, 10:00 PM
I dunno - I have a few blades with Aus8 (but won't buy anymore) and a couple with the MOV steel. The main difference I find is that with the MOV I can get a good edge and it is not rusting like the AUS8 black spots thing. Holding the edge is a different story. I find that I have to retouch at least twice a week or more - but that could be down to me not using the 40/30 rule.

I think I prefer the MOV to the AUS8 actually. It does the job - any knife that I have that has MOV steel is an instant basher. No complaints on my end.

marknett
01-10-2011, 10:59 PM
ok now I'm confused . Are you guys saying that ZDP-189 " A.k.a. super steel " can't hang with a victorinox ... Did I miss something here or what? :confused:

The Mentaculous
01-10-2011, 11:39 PM
ok now I'm confused . Are you guys saying that ZDP-189 " A.k.a. super steel " can't hang with a victorinox ... Did I miss something here or what? :confused:

They're just saying that in those specific properties that "lower end" steels are better. In terms of edge-holding, ZDP probably about 10x better. I don't really find "edge stability" to be all that important IMO--I can get and keep a very fine edge on ZDP 189, despite all the carbides.

What they're saying is that every steel has advantages and disadvantages. There's no perfect steel, period. Maybe there are perfect steels, but only for one specific application.

marknett
01-10-2011, 11:43 PM
That's good. I just bought a stretch 2 with ZDP-189 since I've been wanting to try this steel

chuck_roxas45
01-11-2011, 12:12 AM
Steel matrix be able to hold all the carbide and stuff without them falling out on very top of edge.






I see, thanks. So since, the 420HC stuff can't hang with S30V, assuming optimum heat treat for both, then edge stability can't be all that important for edge holding.